Population Growth for OKC

[josh]

I would think under 18 growth has more to do with birth rate. I could be wrong, but that’s the most likely factor as most under 18 would either be births or kids moving with their parents.

[Rover]

To have a burgeoning 18 and under you have to have fairly young families having kids. That means that those families are locating/staying here in increasing numbers. I doubt we are suddenly just more fertile.

[josh]

To have a burgeoning 18 and under you have to have fairly young families having kids. That means that those families are locating/staying here in increasing numbers. I doubt we are suddenly just more fertile.

Doesn’t that support my theory? Without a breakdown of which age groups under 18 saw the largest gains, it’s all breaks down to either news births or people moving to said cities having kids with them when they move.

[Rover]

Or young people staying and having their families here instead of moving after graduation. If we stem the flow out we are retaining the young families and that is good.

[soonerguru]

^^^
Could you be more specific on the differences? What is different between the legislative focus of Oklahoma and the states you mentioned? All those states have recently made national news for the exact legislation you just criticized. I live in Texas and think the legislature is worse on the issues you mentioned. Also, can you provide more specific legislation those states have passed you’d like to see passed? Thanks in advance.

Texas has Austin and Dallas. Texas pays teachers more than a living wage. Texas has international airports and a coast. I think bchris was pointing out that while the states he mentioned have dumbass politicians, too, they have many other positive attributes that are well-known to the nation. Georgia has Atlanta and will probably be a blue state within ten years. North Carolina has the Research Triangle, a coast, a very modern city that is bigger than OKC, and world-class academic institutions.

Your post borders on pedantry. Do we really need to rehash the dumb **** that is happening in our state legislature that makes national news? And we sure export some quality leaders, like Scott Pruitt, possibly the most venal and corrupt member of the Trump Syndicate.

We were on every major international news organization for nearly a month with tale after tale about four-day school weeks, decayed, outdated textbooks, and impoverished teachers. You think that's good for business?

[PhiAlpha]

Texas has Austin and Dallas. Texas pays teachers more than a living wage. Texas has international airports and a coast. I think bchris was pointing out that while the states he mentioned have dumbass politicians, too, they have many other positive attributes that are well-known to the nation. Georgia has Atlanta and will probably be a blue state within ten years. North Carolina has the Research Triangle, a coast, a very modern city that is bigger than OKC, and world-class academic institutions.

Your post borders on pedantry. Do we really need to rehash the dumb **** that is happening in our state legislature that makes national news? And we sure export some quality leaders, like Scott Pruitt, possibly the most venal and corrupt member of the Trump Syndicate.

We were on every major international news organization for nearly a month with tale after tale about four-day school weeks, decayed, outdated textbooks, and impoverished teachers. You think that's good for business?

BChris always lays major blame on our state legislature for being a leading detractor for companies/people in deciding whether to relocate here over another city/state and Dan made the point that all the other, more economically successful, states that BChris mentioned have equally crazy elected officials that have equally stupid agendas but that it hasn’t had the negative impact on those states that you would expect it to if it was the primary deterrent to corporate relocations here . He asked him to provide examples of how the LEGISLATIVE FOCUS was any different between those states and OK since you would expect it to be if that is what’s truly differentiating our economic success from the states he mentioned. Dan’s point is the one you mention as being BChris’...the elected officials are crazy in other states too, but it hasn’t had the major negative effect on them that BChris acts like it does on OK.

[Plutonic Panda]

Bchris is also a poster who has lived in cities that trump OKC and he makes good points that are seemingly always shot down on this board just because of his posting history which offends posters here just because they don’t align with the small town mentality of “if you don’t like it leave.” Sorry, but that’s the truth. Bchris also did answer Dans questions as to specifics yet for some reason they weren’t good enough. I don’t know what other answers he or you are looking for.

I am running the risk now of upsetting Pete which I don’t want to do because I like him, but this website just has an army of posters who jumps on anyone’s case when they make the slightest remarks of anything that isn’t less than praise of OKC unless it comes from certain “Golden” posters whom I won’t name or it is about bitching about car lanes usually.

Regardless, everything I’ve read and I’ll call out Rover here, just seems to be the complete opposite of what I’ve experienced in big cities when it comes to the quality of development and the culture in OKC. It just sucks. Yeah, it’s getting better, but that is so relative. What a joke to a compare the city to how it was in the 90s. It’s time to stop that crap.

Even in another thread Scott was hammered for just merely saying the fonts on Steelyard were a joke which they are. Again, it just seems that no matter what, so many posters here want to justify nearly every little thing that happens in Oklahoma and compare the states best to the worst of other states. There always seems to be some excuse as to why Oklahoma can’t change.

Even worse, it seems every other place has the perfect ingredients for being what it is but again, Oklahoma just be like that because... it’s f@cking bullsh!t honestly and Oklahoma could be so much better if more people would drop the apologist mentality and open their minds to the harsh reality that plagues the state such as it being probably the most stereotypical, conservative cowtown in the US.

If you knew a single thing about me, you’d know that is the last thing I want to say about the place. But time and time again I find the thoughts people have about OKC is just a giant truck stop. Obviously that’s wrong and there is so much amazing about OKC. It’s so much more and can be so much more. OKC is my favorite city and I am always so exited when I visit it. There is just a persistent small town mentality that is so frustrating to see.

Posters like DCSooner and Bchris are often spot on the money with their posts yet are always disregarded and discredited as being overly negative because they don’t feel a need to fulfill some sort of expected qouta by some here of “positive” posts.

I love this site to death mostly because I always get so f@cking excited to see progress in my city, but I won’t post much here anymore if at all because I am a very opinionated person. I will let my voice be heard when I see something proposed for OKC or its metro that is less than standard in true cosmopolitan cities that are dominating where people want to be. What I won’t do is accept opinions by posters such as Rover who have a catalogue of bull**** excuses why OKC is what it is or why developers here are doing what they’re. While there a few examples of amazing work, they don’t compare to what other major cities are getting and I’m even talking of cities like St. Louis. But there always, always, always seems to be some perfect excuse for Oklahoma because it’s such a special state. Unfortunately for me, I have suffer from a bit of Autism so sometimes I am unable to formulate things into words right or I have some knee jerk reaction and say things I shouldn’t. Both of which I’m working on.

But this isn’t about me anyways and about the city. The good thing is, progress is unstoppable and OKC appears to be getting the attention of national and international developers now who really know what quality and amazing developments are made of. Developments in OKC don’t have to be either Lower Bricktown or the Grove. Unfortunately a good number of the developments proposed or underway are still incredible underwhelming compared to what’s happening in many other cities and acting like OKC has it now because there are a handful of good(even at that is arguable) developments happening and dismissing other people’s criticism because it points out issues won’t help anything and further delay the city truly becoming cosmopolitan.

As for the state legislature, it seems that they push more bad stuff than they do good. More of the bad stuff gets through and for whatever reason seems to be in the news more than other states, which, yes, if we want to lump Oklahoma in them, they are there. But the fact we have posters here who continue to point out, well, Texas does this, North Carolina does that, Georgia did those things... okay, so compare Oklahoma’s best to their worst, because those states obviously have more progressive and forward policies coming out than Oklahoma and it’s evident by what they have to show for it.

Next time you want to complain about socially regressive crap coming out of the Texas legislators, a trip down to Austin, Houston, Dallas, for a few days to really explore those cities should show you how many more progressive policies come out because a regressive government like Oklahoma wouldn’t foster cities like those. Tulsa is also a case in point. A hidden gem waiting to be discovered yet loosing population or barely gaining it. At some point you need to open your eyes and realize how sh!tty the state government is. If your argument is to compare it with Mississippi and Alabama, then I honestly don’t know what to say.

[josh]

Or young people staying and having their families here instead of moving after graduation. If we stem the flow out we are retaining the young families and that is good.

Then that would be new births. Which was my original point.

[dcsooner]

Texas has Austin and Dallas. Texas pays teachers more than a living wage. Texas has international airports and a coast. I think bchris was pointing out that while the states he mentioned have dumbass politicians, too, they have many other positive attributes that are well-known to the nation. Georgia has Atlanta and will probably be a blue state within ten years. North Carolina has the Research Triangle, a coast, a very modern city that is bigger than OKC, and world-class academic institutions.

Your post borders on pedantry. Do we really need to rehash the dumb **** that is happening in our state legislature that makes national news? And we sure export some quality leaders, like Scott Pruitt, possibly the most venal and corrupt member of the Trump Syndicate.

We were on every major international news organization for nearly a month with tale after tale about four-day school weeks, decayed, outdated textbooks, and impoverished teachers. You think that's good for business?

Exactly, continued mediocrity only exacerbates the State's natural disadvantages and illuminates the shortcomings in areas that if ranked more towards the top 1/3 to 1/2 of State's COULD lead to greater economic and by extension population growth.

[jonny d]

Again, I ask, why would anyone live in the dump that is Oklahoma? /s

Oklahoma is far from perfect. I hope no one is trying to say it is. But it is also not the worst state, either. I don't care what the rankings say. I have been to neighboring states, and most are dumps (Kansas and Arkansas), and Missouri is not exactly great either (their state university has been embroiled in race issues for decades). Oklahoma has a chance to improve with the next election, just by losing Mary Fallin. But who we vote for to replace her will have a lot to do with the course the state takes.

[oklip955]

Cheap housing, low cost of living for us that are retired. Also go look at the tax break for those who get a pension or have an IRA. $10K not taxable. Helps when on a fixed income. I don't know why the realtors in the state don't push this and try to get more retired people to move from high tax/high cost of living states. I don't think our weather is that bad. Winters are not harsh and long. Sure summers can be brutal but hey, there is AC in most homes today.

[ChrisHayes]

One of the things that brought me to Oklahoma from Ohio is the weather. I don't mind snow, but absolutely hate the cold. Winters here can be annoying if they last too long, but they don't last nearly as long and are nowhere near as cold as up north. I don't mind the heat though. I have a high heat tolerance, so I don't get all freaked out when I see a forecast for 90-100 degree weather. And if we're going to talk about heat, look at Phoenix and Dallas, they have fast growth rates and they get much hotter than OKC. Some people have a very wrong view of tornadoes, and that's the only weather related thing that I can see slowing us down. It seem some people assume you have violent tornadoes wiping out the city every year.

[catch22]

I have to say the weather in Oklahoma absolutely sucks. I didn’t realize it until I moved back. If it’s hot, there’s no wind. If it’s 70 degrees there’s a 25 MPH wind which makes it unbearable. If it’s cold it is of arctic intensity. The tornadoes don’t even matter to me - I enjoy the severe weather season.

[Rover]

North Carolina has very similar weather with more humidity and it doesn’t seem to slow it’s growth.

[catch22]

North Carolina has very similar weather with more humidity and it doesn’t seem to slow it’s growth.

Sorry, I should have added that I don’t think it is a deciding factor as to whether or not people will move here or from here. I was just commenting that the weather here is pretty harsh compared to other places.

[Anonymous.]

I have to say the weather in Oklahoma absolutely sucks. I didn’t realize it until I moved back. If it’s hot, there’s no wind. If it’s 70 degrees there’s a 25 MPH wind which makes it unbearable. If it’s cold it is of arctic intensity. The tornadoes don’t even matter to me - I enjoy the severe weather season.

This is very true. The wind in this state is a major issue and it is the worst when the temperatures are the best. I am honestly surprised there isn't even more attempts to harness the energy potential from it. Western KS is very similar weather-wise to the majority of OK and it hardly has anyone living in it.

The mentions in this thread about North Carolina are interesting. Right now their residents are either celebrating or complaining about the idea of both a new Apple HQ and Amazon HQ moving in. That is a predicament I would love to have anywhere near OKC.

[jonny d]

Well, we know the legislature is to blame for the crappy weather in Oklahoma. /s People on here blame them for everything else, so I am waiting for the first person to truly do something like that. OK can't control the weather, so if someone uses that as a reason to leave or not come, there is not a single, soiltary thing the legislators can do.

[Rover]

Sorry, I should have added that I don’t think it is a deciding factor as to whether or not people will move here or from here. I was just commenting that the weather here is pretty harsh compared to other places.

Try Chicago in the Winter, Houston in the summer, Orlando in the summer, St. Louis in the winter, Seattle in the rainy season, Phoenix in the Summer. We have a lot of good days here that many ignore. Like today...90 degrees, low wind, sunny skies, 50% humidity. Everybody (but San Diego ��) has good and bad days. We have our share, but so do others. Sometimes it’s just preferences.

[hoya]

The state needs to make a significant investment in OU. Boren did a great job, but we need to build momentum and keep making improvements. It needs to become a top technical school and start churning out a bunch of science and math graduates. With Tinker being what it is, perhaps OU should really push their aerospace engineering program. More graduates in that area could lead to more aerospace companies moving jobs here.

OKC also needs to work with OU to set up some sort of "tech business incubator" system around the HSC. The Innovation District isn't gonna work without OU's cooperation. They seem to like their manicured lawns, but if the school felt like it was intimately involved with the project and that there was a direct benefit to students (i.e., something to boost their profile with potential students), they might get on board. Perhaps a residential tower for med students, with an attached office building that could lease space to startup companies founded by recent graduates. Even have faculty advisers set up to teach them how to set up a business like that. Maybe even have a degree program specifically for people who want to start their own tech business -- a combination of business and engineering. Maybe graduate programs where you can get your MBA along with a Masters in computer science or something.

And if we could build a better connection between the Oklahoma School of Science and Math, that may help too. Funnel really smart high school kids directly into an OU program, and from there they've got a clear path to starting their own business. Most of the startups won't be successful, but some of them might be. Now these kinds of developments would take some time to pay off -- a kid going into OSSM wouldn't be starting a company for about a decade, but we'd have a lot of potential in the pipeline, and this seems like the natural way to encourage this. While we're at it, let's increase the size of the OSSM. It's a great school, and I think we need to get more students there as long as we can maintain the same level of quality.

MAPS needs to continue, with roughly a 50/50 mix of quality of life improvements and economic development. Convention centers are needed, but so are parks and museums and things like that. When people visit OKC they need to think that we've got a lot of fun things to do. This will make companies more willing to consider a move here.

[catch22]

90, humid, and no wind. That doesn’t sound like a fantastic day to me unless I’m on the beach

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Those cities have their seasonal troubles, but they also have more pleasant days outside of those seasons. It seems like we have summer and winter, with 2 weeks of springs and 2 weeks of fall. And when it’s summer it is HOT HOT HOT and winter is COLD COLD COLD. The 4 weeks of transition a year go by very quick.

[Rover]

OKC also needs to work with OU to set up some sort of "tech business incubator" system around the HSC. The Innovation District isn't gonna work without OU's cooperation. They seem to like their manicured lawns, but if the school felt like it was intimately involved with the project and that there was a direct benefit to students (i.e., something to boost their profile with potential students), they might get on board. Perhaps a residential tower for med students, with an attached office building that could lease space to startup companies founded by recent graduates. Even have faculty advisers set up to teach them how to set up a business like that. Maybe even have a degree program specifically for people who want to start their own tech business -- a combination of business and engineering. Maybe graduate programs where you can get your MBA along with a Masters in computer science or something.

OU has student housing at the HSC. Also, the incubation center is in the office building complex on Lincoln. OU MBA facilities are there too. These are great tools that need expanded focus as it serves primarily the biomedical sector. But, I’ve been to a number of impressive meetings at the OU MBA school there that had nothing to do with biomedical. OU has been very active developing those tools and resources... mostly without state or city financial help.

[bchris02]

OKC has extremes in all four seasons. Most other places people are bringing up do not. Phoenix or Houston may be brutal during the summer but their winters are nice. Chicago and Minnesota's winters may be brutal but their summers are nice. In OKC, summers are brutally hot, winters are brutally cold, and it seems like the wind is always blowing especially in winter when it makes it feel much colder than the actual temperature. Winter tends to bring damaging ice storms around here more often than snow. Summer tends to bring drought. Plus, nowhere on the planet sees as many tornadoes (statistically) as central and western Oklahoma. For born-and-bred Okies that isn't really something that matters but it does to people out of state. In my opinion, weather is one of the biggest drawbacks of living here.

[Rover]

90, humid, and no wind. That doesn’t sound like a fantastic day to me unless I’m on the beach

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Those cities have their seasonal troubles, but they also have more pleasant days outside of those seasons. It seems like we have summer and winter, with 2 weeks of springs and 2 weeks of fall. And when it’s summer it is HOT HOT HOT and winter is COLD COLD COLD. The 4 weeks of transition a year go by very quick.

50% humidity is lower than most today and not high. Summers are hotter in Dallas and just as humid or more. Don’t visit Houston, New Orleans, Memphis, Nashville, etc. if OKC is too humid. Winters in Kansas City, Chicago, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Denver, etc., etc, are colder. If everyone wants to compare us to San Diego, we lose.

[catch22]

50% humidity is lower than most today and not high. Summers are hotter in Dallas and just as humid or more. Don’t visit Houston, New Orleans, Memphis, Nashville, etc. if OKC is too humid. Winters in Kansas City, Chicago, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Denver, etc., etc, are colder. If everyone wants to compare us to San Diego, we lose.

I’d disagree about winter in denver. It’s actually incredibly mild most of the winter. You get about a half dozen actual snow storms a season. A day after the storm it’s sunny and 50 and the snow is melted away. Summers are very tolerable here too.

[Laramie]

We all need to step back; look at the progress OKC has made since 1990 (Post MAPS) because every public dollar invested from the sales tax and its subsequent extensions has produced 3 times as much in private investments in our city.

Your participation on OKCTalk has helped many of us understand the inner workings of our city, the impact of decisions made thru city hall and the fascination OKC's future holds.

Great when you consider that OKC doesn't have any mountains, oceans, beaches and we're in a galaxy of major markets like Dallas, Denver, Houston, Kansas City, New Orleans & St. Louis.