OAK (formerly Penn Central)

[Shortsyeararound]

shake shack is not fast food

Fine, Mr. Definiton - Shake Shack is fast casual.
I walked in, placed an order at the counter and was handed a drink for me to fill, sat down, and then received my food- all in a matter of minutes.
It is not fine dining.

[Rover]

shake shack is not fast food

McDonalds has seating inside. Guess it is fast casual too. LOL. Lipstick on a pig to not call SS fast food.

[Mississippi Blues]

Thank you for saying that. I too have been to Shake Shack. I mean, it’s fine, but certainly not worthy of this development. There are more than enough places in OKC to get an eight dollar fast food hamburger anyway. Local places that deserve civic support.

What you say about local places is true but I think you’re overstating what kind of development this is. That or undervaluing what Shake Shack is.

Oak is a huge step forward from what pretty much any other development in OKC has ever been but they don’t seem to be aiming to be an exclusively upscale mixed-use development, but rather aim to provide higher quality amenities without pricing out most people on an average day. One of the anchor tenants is The Capital Grille, so whatever one thinks of that, I doubt there would be anything substantially higher end and realistically there would be two, maybe three fast casual chains for the sake of variety.

[Mississippi Blues]

Fine, Mr. Definiton - Shake Shack is fast casual.
I walked in, placed an order at the counter and was handed a drink for me to fill, sat down, and then received my food- all in a matter of minutes.
It is not fine dining.

Categories like “fast casual” exist to distinguish that there are levels of what a restaurant or store, etc, is aiming to provide. Not being fine dining doesn’t automatically make it fast food even though that’s probably very close to what most people think the options are.

McDonalds has seating inside. Guess it is fast casual too. LOL. Lipstick on a pig to not call SS fast food.

However snarky one wants to be to simplify it, those in the industry use categories to discern for a reason.

[stlokc]

What you say about local places is true but I think you’re overstating what kind of development this is. That or undervaluing what Shake Shack is.

Oak is a huge step forward from what pretty much any other development in OKC has ever been but they don’t seem to be aiming to be an exclusively upscale mixed-use development, but rather aim to provide higher quality amenities without pricing out most people on an average day. One of the anchor tenants is The Capital Grille, so whatever one thinks of that, I doubt there would be anything substantially higher end and realistically there would be two, maybe three fast casual chains for the sake of variety.

I respect your opinion. I think about everything else we have learned so far about OAK and I would agree this development represents "next level OKC." Whether it's "exclusively upscale" or not is a matter of opinion.

I think there was a time that Shake Shack would fit that criteria. And I guess within the confines of OKC it's still unique. But they are building a Shake Shack in a shopping center near me in St. Louis that also features a Wal-Mart, a Lowe's and and a Best Buy. Think Memorial Road. It's either the third or fourth Shake Shack in St. Louis. In my humble opinion, the era in which Shake Shack is seen by the average person in the towns they are already in as something crazy-amazing has come and gone.

I want to see some more high-end and unique retail in OAK, and hope/assume we will eventually see that.

[onthestrip]

McDonalds has seating inside. Guess it is fast casual too. LOL. Lipstick on a pig to not call SS fast food.

Someone already mentioned but yes, it is fast casual, which is different than fast food. You are wrong here, and no need waste space and time arguing about semantics.

I respect your opinion. I think about everything else we have learned so far about OAK and I would agree this development represents "next level OKC." Whether it's "exclusively upscale" or not is a matter of opinion.

I think there was a time that Shake Shack would fit that criteria. And I guess within the confines of OKC it's still unique. But they are building a Shake Shack in a shopping center near me in St. Louis that also features a Wal-Mart, a Lowe's and and a Best Buy. Think Memorial Road. It's either the third or fourth Shake Shack in St. Louis. In my humble opinion, the era in which Shake Shack is seen by the average person in the towns they are already in as something crazy-amazing has come and gone.

I want to see some more high-end and unique retail in OAK, and hope/assume we will eventually see that.

Almost no retail center is exclusively high end. Any good center will have a mix of quality, a mix of service and soft goods retailers, a mix of target demographics. You cant be all white table cloth full service restaurants. Shake shack would make perfect sense here, but doesnt mean is has to be here either. I would bet there'll be at least a couple fast casual concepts at OAK.

I've seen Mi Cocina mentioned, not happening here or anywhere in OKC for the near future.

[BoulderSooner]

McDonalds has seating inside. Guess it is fast casual too. LOL. Lipstick on a pig to not call SS fast food.

mcdonalds have wine and beer also??

[BoulderSooner]

I like InNOut, not because they are the greatest burger in the world, but they don’t imagine they are something they are not.

i agree with this they know what they are (inexpensive fast food) and they try to be the best in that category

[Rover]

mcdonalds have wine and beer also??

In Paris.

[jedicurt]

In Paris.

Paris, Texas..... the big times!

[Rover]

Paris, Texas..... the big times!

No, but they should. Beer makes a burger go down better.... especially a mediocre one.

[tvkokc]

In Paris.

I mean I was in Paris (both France & Texas) last year neither had Alcohol in their McDonald's lol.

Shake Shack was already slated to come here for another key downtown development and then backed out. Personally I'd rather have a Fatburger, it's delish.

[Rover]

I mean I was in Paris (both France & Texas) last year neither had Alcohol in their McDonald's lol.

Shake Shack was already slated to come here for another key downtown development and then backed out. Personally I'd rather have a Fatburger, it's delish.

McDonalds in Paris, France serves beer. Kronenbourg, I believe. Bottled in some McDs and in a plastic glass in others.

SS would be a fun addition here, but it isn't special, and it isn't upscale, and it isn't a special burger offering. It would be nice in Bricktown.

[BoulderSooner]

McDonalds in Paris, France serves beer. Kronenbourg, I believe. Bottled in some McDs and in a plastic glass in others.

SS would be a fun addition here, but it isn't special, and it isn't upscale, and it isn't a special burger offering. It would be nice in Bricktown.

Spark is pretty much inspired by shake shack

[baralheia]

McDonalds has seating inside. Guess it is fast casual too. LOL. Lipstick on a pig to not call SS fast food.

Okay, so, let's clear up a few misconceptions here. In the restaurant industry, you have three primary designations for a restaurant: Full Service (FSR), Fast Casual, and Quick Service (QSR, aka "fast food"). There is often some overlap between these categories depending on the restaurant, but in general:

• Full Service Restaurants, like Charleston's or The Drake, offer full table service. The restaurant's waitstaff takes care of you the whole time at your table, from seating to ordering, serving drinks and food, to cleanup. The focus of the restaurant is on the quality of the food and the dining experience. Any tableware used to serve your food is typically durable and made to be washed and reused.
• Quick Service Restaurants, like McDonald's or Taco Bell, are generally fully self-service. You order at a counter, choose your own table, fill your own drinks, carry your own tray when your food is ready, and throw your own trash away. Most QSRs feature a drive-thru. The focus of the restaurant is on the price/value of the food, the speed of service, and convenience. Any tableware used to serve your food is typically inexpensive and disposable.
• Fast Casual Restaurants, like Tucker's or The Garage, occupy the middle ground between FSR and QSR. In general, they aim to serve higher quality food than a QSR while offering their menu at a lower price point than a FSR. Most Fast Casual restaurants will have you order at a counter and choose your own seat, but it's common for the staff to offer limited table service, such as bringing your food to you or offering drink refills. As speed of service is usually somewhat lower down the list of priorities, it is uncommon (but not unheard of) for Fast Casual restaurants to have a drive-thru. Often, tableware used to serve your food is a mix of reusables and disposables - your food might be served in a washable basket or tray, but your silverware might be disposable, for instance.

This site goes into a little more detail on the differences between each category: https://www.franchisedirectcanada.co...al-restaurants

Although some Shake Shack locations do indeed feature a drive-thru, overall the chain is more focused on food quality than speed of service or price - and accordingly, the industry defines them as Fast Casual, not a QSR.

[Mississippi Blues]

I respect your opinion. I think about everything else we have learned so far about OAK and I would agree this development represents "next level OKC." Whether it's "exclusively upscale" or not is a matter of opinion.

I think there was a time that Shake Shack would fit that criteria. And I guess within the confines of OKC it's still unique. But they are building a Shake Shack in a shopping center near me in St. Louis that also features a Wal-Mart, a Lowe's and and a Best Buy. Think Memorial Road. It's either the third or fourth Shake Shack in St. Louis. In my humble opinion, the era in which Shake Shack is seen by the average person in the towns they are already in as something crazy-amazing has come and gone.

I want to see some more high-end and unique retail in OAK, and hope/assume we will eventually see that.

I can agree with most of that. At one point it was something that I’d eat maybe once or twice a year when in NYC or DC but the first time it hit me that they might be expanding too much was when I went to one earlier this year in Irving, TX that was off a frontage road to George Bush Turnpike.

That said, I don’t think OKC has reached a level where we should consider it a disservice to our status for getting a Shake Shack (if that even happens) instead of something more posh, not that I think that’s what you’re saying. You mentioned local establishments and I wouldn’t mind that at all, but fast casual chains like Shake Shack, Chipotle, California Pizza Kitchen, work well in high traffic areas like this because not everyone that will eat at Oak is looking to sit down at a fine dining restaurant and spend 1-2 hours to eat. If a place like The Capital Grille has a long wait and someone doesn’t have reservations, they may not want to pick between which place they believe is worth a 45+ minute wait. A fast casual chain can help them leave with a better experience overall than having to get in their car and drive somewhere with a shorter wait that will also probably have lower quality than the chains being scoffed at. There’s also the reality that chains with lots of resources - if they are willing to invest in those - tend to handle high traffic corridors quite a bit better than local restaurants, so chains can alleviate traffic in a way that also helps local businesses better service what they need without running up their expenses and risking their reputation if they can’t keep up.

I’m sure none of this is groundbreaking to anyone but there’s an ideal balance that helps give a development an identity besides only being associated as a place to visit if you’re able to plan out each step days in advance and only visit on special occasions. That association alone can push a large chunk of potential patrons to avoid a development entirely, which is the opposite of what investors and those interested in numbers want to see.

[soonermike81]

Shake shack is a cult. Sort of like In n Out, or 5 Guys. I like InNOut, not because they are the greatest burger in the world, but they don’t imagine they are something they are not.

This is hilarious. Shake Shack is, by far, a better burger than In N Out. It’s not really close imo. Willing to wager if if given a blind taste test, you’d even pick SS over In N Out. The meat is just better, no question.

[soonermike81]

It seems like this board is always yearning for the type of restaurants/businesses that “big league” cities already have. But yet some scoff at Shake Shack, which imo, will fit perfectly into this development. We’d be in the company of Tokyo, Dubai, Shanghai, London, Singapore, amongst many others. We are talking about the most heavily traveled destination cities in the world. But nah, let’s put The Garage there instead of another “fast food” chain. Lol.

[Teo9969]

Cache is fine, I suppose. I don't think people necessarily expect every development to have all of their favorite things. This development will not be want for destination type places. I just don't think Shake Shack is that. Certainly nobody from a considerable distsnce is going to visit OKC to go to a Shake Shack. Anyone visiting from out of town will find plenty of great burger options within a 5 minute commute of OAK if they so choose.

From a local diner draw perspective, however, I don't think Shake Shack would draw much of a crowd. Were it to go in, it could easily fill up just as a convenient option for people who come to Oak, and may be why this is the exact right development for SS to enter OKC.

But as someone who lives directly in the area, I'd be shocked if I eat SS more than once every 2 years.

As an Oklahoma who has traveled, having access to a good burger is a must. But once you are back home, the competition is pretty freaking fierce.

[soonermike81]

Certainly nobody from a considerable distsnce is going to visit OKC to go to a Shake Shack.

I don’t think anyone is claiming this to be the case. I definitely didn’t visit DC or New York for Shake Shake. But yet, I found myself there when I desired a good hamburger and wanted something more casual.

Like Mississippi stated above, not everybody is going to have two hours to sit down for a meal at Capital Grille when they visit OAK. Nor can everybody afford to eat Capital Grille multiple times a year. Again, I think this is the perfect type of establishment for this development.

[Southsider2]

Here's a look at the scaled back office.

https://www.priceedwards.com/oklahom...fice/lease/oak

[progressiveboy]

Would like to see a nice, quality french bakery/restaurant. La Parisienne comes to mind! Also, perhaps a Peter Millar shop and a Tommy Bahama store! Crate and Barrel too. Looking forward to the finished project. This is a nice development!


https://thestardistrict.com/tenants/...french-bistro/

[HangryHippo]

Here's a look at the scaled back office.

https://www.priceedwards.com/oklahom...fice/lease/oak

Thanks, SouthSider. Has the office building moved west in the pictures at your link or am I misremembering earlier renderings?

[BoulderSooner]

Thanks, SouthSider. Has the office building moved west in the pictures at your link or am I misremembering earlier renderings?

i think this is a brand new image ..

https://www.priceedwards.com/sites/d...?itok=FjO4LPSu

and the office building is much further west

[BoulderSooner]

This is hilarious. Shake Shack is, by far, a better burger than In N Out. It’s not really close imo. Willing to wager if if given a blind taste test, you’d even pick SS over In N Out. The meat is just better, no question.

it should be it is a higher category of restaurant at a higher price point ..