OG&E Energy Center

[Richard at Remax]

Not to take away from the demolitions, but if you don't want to live somewhere or want to move because of some buildings being demolished then you have bigger issues at hand you need to take care of.

[bchris02]

Not to take away from the demolitions, but if you don't want to live somewhere or want to move because of some buildings being demolished then you have bigger issues at hand you need to take care of.

I think some would say that the buildings being demolished is representative of a prevailing mindset here that could be a valid reason to move. Several of the more vocal posters on this board have already done it. I agree though that wanting to move simply because of the loss of these buildings or because the tower is too short is pretty ridiculous.

[Just the facts]

Not to take away from the demolitions, but if you don't want to live somewhere or want to move because of some buildings being demolished then you have bigger issues at hand you need to take care of.

The demolishing of the buildings are just the symptom of the bigger issue most of us who are disgusted, are disgusted with. The thing I don't like is that all the major decision in the City are being made by a very small handful of out-of-touch people who are running the City as their own little Kingdom, and the ones elected by the people to protect their interest are afraid of the King. Sorry if this right-winger doesn't want to live in a Kingdom, especially a poorly run one where the public treasury is looted for private profit.

[Bellaboo]

I think some would say that the buildings being demolished is representative of a prevailing mindset here that could be a valid reason to move. Several of the more vocal posters on this board have already done it. I agree though that wanting to move simply because of the loss of these buildings or because the tower is too short is pretty ridiculous.

I know some of those posters and their move had a lot more to do with job betterment than any other factor. Not saying it couldn't weigh as a factor though.

[SOONER8693]

The demolishing of the buildings are just the symptom of the bigger issue most of us who are disgusted, are disgusted with. The thing I don't like is that all the major decision in the City are being made by a very small handful of out-of-touch people who are running the City as their own little Kingdom, and the ones elected by the people to protect their interest are afraid of the King. Sorry if this right-winger doesn't want to live in a Kingdom, especially a poorly run one where the public treasury is looted for private profit.

You probably won't be missed.

[Bellaboo]

The demolishing of the buildings are just the symptom of the bigger issue most of us who are disgusted, are disgusted with. The thing I don't like is that all the major decision in the City are being made by a very small handful of out-of-touch people who are running the City as their own little Kingdom, and the ones elected by the people to protect their interest are afraid of the King. Sorry if this right-winger doesn't want to live in a Kingdom, especially a poorly run one where the public treasury is looted for private profit.

I'd go so far to guess 99 % of the greater OKC populace doesn't care about some king pushing the folks at city hall around. It has little bearing in their day to day.

[AP]

^
Why do people keep saying this? I can't speak for everyone, but in my case it has very little to do with this one specific demolition and a lot more to do with the process and the direction of the city. You start feeling good about the direction of the city in general and then things like this happen and you're reminded you're still in OKC, and it is still be run by a few oil execs who think they know what is best for everyone in OKC.

[David]

They keep saying it because it re-frames the discussion into one with easier pins to known down.

[hoya]

I'd go so far to guess 99 % of the greater OKC populace doesn't care about some king pushing the folks at city hall around. It has little bearing in their day to day.

99% of OKC doesn't care when one gang member shoots another in the face. Doesn't make it right.

[Bellaboo]

All I'm trying to say is that in every city in this country, and probably in the world, there are outside influences that effect municipality outcomes. At one time Chicago was controlled by the MOB, and could still be for all I know. Anytime money is involved, there are influences. And this happens everywhere.

[TU 'cane]

Not to take away from the demolitions, but if you don't want to live somewhere or want to move because of some buildings being demolished then you have bigger issues at hand you need to take care of.

Reading through these comments, I would have to agree with this.
I don't live in OKC, been there more times than can count, and enjoy it when I'm down there. I'm disappointed with how this latest fight went for the Preftakes block, and I made it known.
However, while I certainly understand why people are saying what they are saying (wanting to move to a city that follows their vision, etc.), I can't help but think that some of it is an emotional overreaction. We have to keep composure here and understand that OKC has still put forth many other positives in the last 15-20 years, and it's still looking bright.
Yes, chalk this up as yet another loss of history and another sign of who or what may be "running" things behind the curtain.
But here's the thing: YOU need to do something. Stand up, make your voice heard. Rally together and network. This moping around isn't characteristic of Oklahomans, we have fight in us and I don't like seeing people roll over like this. If that's what you're going to do, please, by all means, leave. That attitude isn't what built this state or that city, so leave. And that meant to be as respectful as can be put, not an insult or dare. If you're not happy, leave, and quit moping around. Otherwise, pick yourself up, look forward to the future and start being more active in what you want to see done.

Channel your emotions towards helping shape the new upcoming Wheeler District, or helping promote Bricktown, Deep Deuce, etc. and asking all the necessary questions you feel necessary into possibly shaping these neighborhoods and districts.

The way I'm going to look at this project and 499 Sheridan (assuming they get off the ground as quick as they've said they were going to) is with optimism because that's all I can do now. They'll be decent (not great) additions to the skyline, density, and overall appearance of downtown.

[gopokes88]

It's amazing how emotionally attached some of you are to something you have next to zero control over. It's like being married to 2 women.

[soonerguru]

If we all hit the lottery, we will have the money we need to be stakeholders, and then our voices will truly be heard!

What this city needs is a youthquake in city leadership. We need to elect Millennials to office. I can think of one right now, a guy who is running for Ward 2 against Ed Shadid.

[Bellaboo]

If we all hit the lottery, we will have the money we need to be stakeholders, and then our voices will truly be heard!

What this city needs is a youthquake in city leadership. We need to elect Millennials to office. I can think of one right now, a guy who is running for Ward 2 against Ed Shadid.

This last sentence speaks volumes to how change can occur. This is the first step in the process for change.

[gopokes88]

If we all hit the lottery, we will have the money we need to be stakeholders, and then our voices will truly be heard!

What this city needs is a youthquake in city leadership. We need to elect Millennials to office. I can think of one right now, a guy who is running for Ward 2 against Ed Shadid.

Won't change a thing.

There's a reason financial crime is barely a slap on the wrist, yet a pound of cocaine gets you 20 years. I'll give you a hint, its not because we don't have any millennials in congress.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

A lot of people here are so wrapped up in their new urban lifestyle dreams they are oblivious to the real world.
Follow the money. He who has the gold makes the rules.

That's not to say everything is hopeless but get expectations in check about what can feasibly be accomplished and what can't.

[betts]

I've got a few years perspective on most of you. I moved here after living in Denver proper and near downtown Denver for 8 years. At that time, the downtown here was a total wasteland and too embarrassing to show anyone visiting. Actually I discouraged all our family from visiting. We always went to see them and coming back here from NYC, Connecticut, Colorado always caused depression from the return to the reality of living here. Seriously. If my kids hadn't loved their school and if my husband and I hadn't had great jobs, we would have been gone the minute it was possible to do so.

MAPS changed that and I'm actually proud to show people around now and I do encourage people to visit. It is interesting to see the city from their perspective though, since three of my four kids live in Chicago and San Francisco, and my husband's family all lives in NYC. Seeing the city through their eyes is a bit of a reality check. But still, we've made massive improvements.

For me, yesterday was the culmination of a lot of discouraging efforts to keep Sandridge from tearing down buildings, to save the Stage Center (one of the few things that ever impressed my visitors), to see if we could keep this last set of vintage buildings from the bulldozer. Yes, I am clearly powerless to prevent these sort of things from happening and our leadership has no vision regarding demolition and its alternatives. Our leadership is clearly manipulated by the whims of the uber-wealthy in this city. And that's no different from any city. It's just that the uber-wealthy in some cities don't always see things from the same perspective as ours.

But there's one thing that keeps me going. Most of those in power right now will be in nursing homes in 10 years. And there are people waiting in the wings who see things differently. We've had some great changes in this city because of and despite our leadership, and since there was nowhere to go but up 15-20 years ago, we've created some momentum that has attracted people here who might be able to see to what our future could be. I'm counting on our progressive millenials who are engaged to continue to create change. It won't be me, although I've spent a lot of effort working on MAPS and the streetcar, which required it and which will continue to require it. So, for those of you who live here and are unhappy, don't give up and don't get lazy. It actually is possible to create change at a grassroots level, but the steps are smaller and require far more effort. I like Sid's boulder analogy. Keep pushing that boulder because there's a downhill ahead. I'll be applauding from my nursing home.

[soondoc]

Great post by the way, I feel your frustration which I explained in my last post. As for Bellaboo, enjoy the mediocrity that is OKC. I just may like Texas much better, who knows. Sad deal is I am Okie proud and also have been. I have so much state pride, that it's almost not healthy. Truly love Oklahoma and OKC, but sometimes you just realize it is what it is.

Very much okie proud, to a fault at times. I didn't say what I said just because of this. It is actually a combination of many reasons. I do like the DFW area, lots to do, better weather, great flight selections to go anywhere, and just a different mentality. My biggest gripe is that for all OKC has done, and it has changed a lot over the years, it still maintains a certain mentality. It wreaks of mediocrity, cuts corners on so many things that it almost is embarassing. This goes from ODOT, to certain projects. It is almost like they are their own worst enemy in some cases and it is often due to cronyism and corruption. I want this city to be great in a way that I can't describe but in my heart I know it will still be the butt of many jokes and a fly over city for years to come. It will never have anything major or a be a reason for others to want to come here. That is what bothers me, because it doesn't have to be that way, but it appears that will be the case. If that makes me a negative poster than so be it, I am actually a very positive person in so many other areas.

[betts]

Soondoc, I think you're a bit wrong. I don't really think we're the butt of jokes anymore - at least among people who bother to keep up. My daughter's boyfriend's father (whew!) has credentials that make Larry Nichols look small time. Every time he reads something in the NY Times or Forbes that has something positive about OKC, he mails it to her. She gets a lot of e-mails. Every time I go out of town and tell people where I live they say something to the effect: "I've heard great things about Oklahoma City recently". And almost every city in the middle of the US is a flyover. To be honest, to people on the east and west coasts, Dallas is a flyover. Why would you stop? We don't have mountains or an ocean or any famous landmarks, but neither does Dallas. We're a small city, but many of us want to be a great little small city. And what I really care about is making this a city the residents love. So we're never a tourist destination? That doesn't mean we can't be a place people want to live. There's cronyism and corruption in every city. And as I said above, I really believe our upcoming generation will be far less likely to accept mediocrity. They're here because they think OKC is a good place to live and getting better. The better it gets, the better the people attracted to live here, the better it gets. That boulder starts rolling.

[Pete]

But there's one thing that keeps me going. Most of those in power right now will be in nursing homes in 10 years. And there are people waiting in the wings who see things differently. We've had some great changes in this city because of and despite our leadership, and since there was nowhere to go but up 15-20 years ago, we've created some momentum that has attracted people here who might be able to see to what our future could be. I'm counting on our progressive millenials who are engaged to continue to create change. It won't be me, although I've spent a lot of effort working on MAPS and the streetcar, which required it and which will continue to require it. So, for those of you who live here and are unhappy, don't give up and don't get lazy. It actually is possible to create change at a grassroots level, but the steps are smaller and require far more effort. I like Sid's boulder analogy. Keep pushing that boulder because there's a downhill ahead. I'll be applauding from my nursing home.

I think the reason so many get upset and want to throw up their hands is because OKC is a place that encourages citizens to get involved, and in lots of ways the average Joe *can* make a difference.

So, people are on MAPS sub-committees, or get involved in Better Block, or go to the charette for the the Wheeler District or just read and post here, and that makes them feel excited and even impactful.

Then something like SandRidge or the Preftakes Block happens and it's like a punch to the gut. Especially because you have hundreds of people who truly are engaged and then in a course of a month, a rich man can propose sweeping aside an entire historic block and then get approval without even breaking a sweat.

We keep thinking we've turned a corner, learned from our mistakes, etc. Then yesterday happens and people on the committees that truly do hold some power don't even put up a respectable fight. I believe only one person voted against demoing the bus station and there were no votes in favor of saving the others? And this time around, City staff didn't even put up much objection or concern; just rolled over on 8 of the 9 buildings.

People should be able to see how that can be totally disheartening, even if you are okay with the outcome.

[David]

They keep saying it because it re-frames the discussion into one with easier pins to known down.

Aargh, knock down. You always notice those obvious typos after it's too late to correct them.

[betts]

It is disheartening, I won't disagree. I felt depressed all day yesterday. But, I also believe that you gird your loins, figuratively, and go back to work. And that work should include figuring out how to get new, younger people on the DDRC. There's not much left to save at this point, but if nothing else, it would be nice not to have to see some of those faces on the committee anymore.

[bchris02]

So we're never a tourist destination? That doesn't mean we can't be a place people want to live. There's cronyism and corruption in every city. And as I said above, I really believe our upcoming generation will be far less likely to accept mediocrity. They're here because they think OKC is a good place to live and getting better. The better it gets, the better the people attracted to live here, the better it gets. That boulder starts rolling.

Good points. One thing I always say about Charlotte is its not a tourist city. The city has no zoo or aquarium. It doesn't have a lot of museums and the ones it has are pretty mediocre. Its two and a half hours one way from the mountains and three hours the other way from the beach. The one thing it does have is a Cedar Fair amusement park that puts Six Flags Over Texas to shame. Other than that, there isn't much there for tourists. If somebody wanted to visit the Carolinas I would point them in the direction of Asheville or Wilmington or Charleston SC before Charlotte. What Charlotte is, however, is a wonderful city to live in with a very high quality of life for its residents. A lot of transplants move there unsure about it and then fall in love with it almost immediately and end up staying for life. I would still be there if it wasn't for the Great Recession.

An article I read recently showed that the hipster capitals that are viewed as America's next great cities, with the exception of Austin and Seattle, have a problem. Though they are attracting a ton of transplants, they are not keeping them. The cities that are getting it right include places like San Antonio which is overshadowed in the media, yet like Charlotte offers a great quality of life for its residents.

That is the kind of city OKC should strive to become and could become in the not too distant future.

[Pete]

It is disheartening, I won't disagree. I felt depressed all day yesterday. But, I also believe that you gird your loins, figuratively, and go back to work. And that work should include figuring out how to get new, younger people on the DDRC. There's not much left to save at this point, but if nothing else, it would be nice not to have to see some of those faces on the committee anymore.

Even if there isn't much left to save, that committee could have a ton of positive influence just by insisting on better design on the new stuff that does get built.

Yesterday wasn't just about losing the buildings; it was about what is replacing them, which is equally important.

[CaptDave]

I think the reason so many get upset and want to throw up their hands is because OKC is a place that encourages citizens to get involved, and in lots of ways the average Joe *can* make a difference.

So, people are on MAPS sub-committees, or get involved in Better Block, or go to the charette for the the Wheeler District or just read and post here, and that makes them feel excited and even impactful.

Then something like SandRidge or the Preftakes Block happens and it's like a punch to the gut. Especially because you have hundreds of people who truly are engaged and then in a course of a month, a rich man can propose sweeping aside an entire historic block and then get approval without even breaking a sweat.

We keep thinking we've turned a corner, learned from our mistakes, etc. Then yesterday happens and people on the committees that truly do hold some power don't even put up a respectable fight. I believe only one person voted against demoing the bus station and there were no votes in favor of saving the others? And this time around, City staff didn't even put up much objection or concern; just rolled over on 8 of the 9 buildings.

People should be able to see how that can be totally disheartening, even if you are okay with the outcome.

This is what I was saying. Combine this with the availability of numerous places that are "done" as Sid said, and looking elsewhere becomes more appealing than hanging around hoping to see the city become what people hope for. Of course everything isn't terrible and the sky isn't falling - OKC has made some pretty big strides since I moved here. But just about anything regular people want can and will be pushed aside or placed behind the things a tiny number of people want at their whim and sometimes without regard for anything anyone else says despite the merits. Simply look at the MAPS3 project schedule and where money was reallocated for another example; and that one involves public money and property.

It isn't just about those nine buildings yesterday - I actually agree with most of them going away for the new project. But I hoped OKC was ready to demand better from developers and the proposal clearly could be better with a little effort put into it. Unfortunately that does not appear to be true and there are plenty of people like a couple of our resident trolls who think it is challenging a deity to ask for them to consider another viewpoint on how OKC develops. It isn't crappy, but it isn't good or great either, especially when taking into account the mass of parking garages that will dominate the entire western end of the CBD. Acknowledging that parking is needed, there are ways to integrate parking into urban areas that actually improve the overall feel of the area with a little effort. These fail miserably on that particular attribute because even though the commercial space was increased a little, it is still probably going to remain vacant and become just another void in an area that should have connected the CBD to Film Row.

OKC is never going to be NYC or Chicago, nor should it ever try to be. But it could become a city that has the best of urban and suburban lifestyles and that is what some of us fear we are missing. I honestly thought the central core of downtown would be rebuilt in a manner that demonstrated the city had learned its lesson with urban renewal. Unfortunately, people in positions of influence continue to think bringing suburban development into an urban environment is conducive to developing a complete city. The truth is there are even some fairly small towns that get it right and offer the same or better lifestyle choices of OKC. Take a look at Saratoga Springs NY for instance; very well developed downtown area that includes mixed use developments, surrounded by walkable neighborhoods, adequate street capacity, and eventually more suburban style developments farther out.

Sadly enough, most people know what right looks like when it comes to things like this. This development obviously isn't it, and that is why so many people that are actually engaged in what goes on in OKC are so disappointed. But what's done is done unless someone comes up with one helluva an appeal to the DDRC in the next 9 or 10 days.

[soondoc]

You all have some really good points and thank you for that. One angle I am shocked that no one brought up is this. Have they really thought of the ramifications of having a huge parking lot right across the street from an elementary school? They say that putting the garage under the building is too costly (although it is done all the time in other places), but what would the cost be if God forbid a child was abducted and taken to the garage? To me, that just provides a shady environment that makes it all too easy for some pathological predator to use this to his advantage. Perhaps I am being overly concerned, but how can that be a good thing?

I would hate to be the owner of this project if this was a concern that it could be a danger to a bunch of kids and they have to live with and hopefully pay for damages of a lost child. They could put the garage under the building, and develop or redevelop the rest of the block. Like I said, I pray something like that never happens, but can you see what I am talking about here? I think concerned parents should be flooding the city with call and concerns for child safety. A big parking garage directly across the street just seems like a recipe for something bad. Any thoughts about that?