Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[Edgar]

Edgar, stop sleeping in geography class.....LOL

What? that Sarids is a dammed tributary of the Kiamichi Watershed that no one cared enough to pay the debt on to the feds when thay couldn't make money selling the water. thank God the tribes have the coin to fight OKC's resource grab.

[Dubya61]

What? that Sarids is a dammed tributary of the Kiamichi Watershed that no one cared enough to pay the debt on to the feds when thay couldn't make money selling the water. thank God the tribes have the coin to fight OKC's resource grab.

"Grab" would infer some sort of eminent domain type of process. This was a purchase of water storage rights plain and simple.

[kevinpate]

What? that Sarids is a dammed tributary of the Kiamichi Watershed that no one cared enough to pay the debt on to the feds when thay couldn't make money selling the water. thank God the tribes have the coin to fight OKC's resource grab.

Do you even realize your anger is totally misdirected? OKC bailed the state out, after the state failed to honor its payment obligations. By the by, that failure rests with the elected legislature of the days gone by, including them what the good folks in the areas surrounding Sardis help elect.

I'm not in OKC, never lived there, only ever briefly even worked there, but dang man, OKC buying the storage rights for water is not something to be ticked about. As for it being OKC and not the folks in the area surrounding Sardis, well if the folks in the area had stepped up, they'd quite possibly own the storage rights and could draw as little as they pleased. So, where were these folks back when storage was for sale? Maybe acting as though something no one ever paid for was theirs simply by proximity? Gee, wonder if my neighbor would permit me to lay claim on his truck simply because it's always parked so close to my yard?
makes about as much sense as your argument makes. Oh wait, less sense, because my neighbor is probably paying for his truck.

[Bellaboo]

Edgar, I know you're not old enough to vote, and you sound a little irrational for a young age.....but would you rather have OKC buy the water rights like they did ? or have the possibility of some water district in Texas buy them in years past ?

[Edgar]

People celebrating the Scotus decision on the Tarrant lawsuit can't understand why the tribes and the folks of SE Ok are being so fussy. You're right Kevin, SE Ok isn't a high income area of our state and couldn't have paid off the reneged Sardis debt- they are blessed with great natural beauty that provides some rec tourism income. Wouldn't it be neighborly to respct that. OKC has already shown their hand with the unnecessary drawdown that wrecked Canton. This nothing but an old fashioned resource grab by OKC and their co-conspirators at the OWRB to get their hands on 90% of Sardis storage- God forbid. Got a hunch Speaker Shannon drafted the bill changing how the board is composed. How do you like me now. The tribes couldn't get a return call, literally, nor was the corp consulted. The tribes were expected to file suit, and if not, mo betta. Mary fallin failed in shaming the tribes with the front page Oklahoman propaganda piece. Pray for the tribes success in protecting the creator's blessing.2 tribes offer to pay $5.2M of Sardis Lake debt - BusinessWeek

[Dubya61]

People celebrating the Scotus decision on the Tarrant lawsuit can't understand why the tribes and the folks of SE Ok are being so fussy.
Pray for the tribes success in protecting the creator's blessing.

That's cute. You still picture the tribes in their historical role, as opposed to their current status of a specially protected business entity evoking greed a la Gordon Gekko.

[kevinpate]

Edgar, back in the days of the debt being defaulted, and OK as a state opposing the federal suit expecting payment, there were several, several powerful players in the legislative sandbox who hailed from SE OK. I don't lay the blame solely at their feet, as there were many others who failed in equal measure on meeting the obligations for payment in that matter.

But, it's not like there was a lack of influence on the matter in a 80-100 mile radius of Sardis. And please, as for area folks nowadays being fussy, let's be clear on what's what. The OKC and tribe dispute is not about whether Sardis will have any recreational use. It's a straight up dispute on who controls the rights to use/sell many buckets worth of water stored in Sardis. A lot of money is being spent to rewrite what has already taken place regarding ownership of the storage space and its contents, but at the end of the day, the current dispute is about who will profit from the sale of water drawn off from the Corps built reservoir, not whether water will be drawn off.

[Edgar]

That's cute. You still picture the tribes in their historical role, as opposed to their current status of a specially protected business entity evoking greed a la Gordon Gekko.

I know right, the idiginous peoples of the Americas have it made, lol as the kids say.

[Bellaboo]

'Pray for the tribes success in protecting the creator's blessing.'

The Tribes aren't the only folks entitled to the creators blessings......we all do. LOL

[Edgar]

Edgar, back in the days of the debt being defaulted, and OK as a state opposing the federal suit expecting payment, there were several, several powerful players in the legislative sandbox who hailed from SE OK. I don't lay the blame solely at their feet, as there were many others who failed in equal measure on meeting the obligations for payment in that matter.

But, it's not like there was a lack of influence on the matter in a 80-100 mile radius of Sardis. And please, as for area folks nowadays being fussy, let's be clear on what's what. The OKC and tribe dispute is not about whether Sardis will have any recreational use. It's a straight up dispute on who controls the rights to use/sell many buckets worth of water stored in Sardis. A lot of money is being spent to rewrite what has already taken place regarding ownership of the storage space and its contents, but at the end of the day, the current dispute is about who will profit from the sale of water drawn off from the Corps built reservoir, not whether water will be drawn off.

We know what OKC wants to do with the water- irrigate NW Exwy in Aug. Here's a quote taken from the NY Times-Mr. Pyle, the Choctaw chief, said he worried most about preserving the economic viability of southeastern Oklahoma for recreation. “When water goes from a region, so goes your economy,” he said. This is their heritage of the region predating statehood, the ones that survived the diaspora anyway, you remember, "as long as the grass grows and the water runs."

[Dubya61]

I know right, the idiginous peoples of the Americas have it made, lol as the kids say.

I don't know about the indigenous people of the Americas, but the tribes, sure do!

[Dubya61]

We know what OKC wants to do with the water- irrigate NW Exwy in Aug. Here's a quote taken from the NY Times-Mr. Pyle, the Choctaw chief, said he worried most about preserving the economic viability of southeastern Oklahoma for recreation. “When water goes from a region, so goes your economy,” he said. This is their heritage of the region predating statehood, the ones that survived the diaspora anyway, you remember, "as long as the grass grows and the water runs."

Even if OKC does what you say they will: irrigate NW Exwy in Aug, and even if it results in the total depletion of the lake, then the tribe will STILL be left with their heritage river, flowing just as it would as if there were no lake -- grass still growing and river still running.

[OKCisOK4me]

This thread is proof that water will be more valuable than gold in the near future and will be the main reason for people dying, because they won't be able to afford it, and so, will go to war for it...death begets death.

[Midtowner]

Yup.. that natural progression from odd/even watering days to mass insurrection. Your post totally connected the dots there.

[bradh]

From driving by at 65 mph it looks to be about 18" green PVC pipe.

Likely irrigation pipe for farmers, and nothing to do with raw water or potable water for consumption. If there was a huge water pipeline for municipal use in Oklahoma that size I would have likely known about it.

[Larry OKC]

kevinpate: you are correct, OKC did bail the State out of its debt that was owed. However, during a time of City layoffs and budget tightening, OKC not only paid the debt owed but overpaid by multi-millions. Not to mention the billion+ pricetag that isn't funded to build the new pipeline that is going to be required to get the water from there to here.

[OKCisOK4me]

Yup.. that natural progression from odd/even watering days to mass insurrection. Your post totally connected the dots there.

Kevin...sometimes I truly believe you're too smart to understand what the point is. Truly went right over your head.

Point in case, several articles on Google leading to the very notion:

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/22/coul...r_iii_partner/

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...ght-over-water

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46824672/n.../#.UcojJti0RIs

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=122195532

There are too many links to post but surely now you get my post. Also, to those of you that think, "oh that will never happen here", depending on how scarce it is come 2030 and beyond, ya never know.

[Midtowner]

bump.

[Just the facts]

Average usage > average recharge = problem

[OKCRT]

Average usage > average recharge = problem

Now that it seems that the drought is over in OKC we should be fine. City lakes are getting all this water today and should be over their banks again. It looks like Canton is getting a bunch of help also. Good news for the middle of July.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Just like the parched western Oklahoma landscape, this thread revives every time it rains.

[Midtowner]

Here in central Oklahoma, we just reached our average annual rainfall in July.

The sky is clearly not falling...or it kind of is. Bad choice of words.

[venture]

Now that it seems that the drought is over in OKC we should be fine. City lakes are getting all this water today and should be over their banks again. It looks like Canton is getting a bunch of help also. Good news for the middle of July.

Well after all the rain, Canton is at 19.13% full now. So it really didn't help them that much. It'll probably take the Fall and Winter to recover there unless we get more rain up there. I would imagine we'll see it go up some as the water travels down to it.

Here in central Oklahoma, we just reached our average annual rainfall in July.

The sky is clearly not falling...or it kind of is. Bad choice of words.

Which means nothing if we dry out and heat up through September. If you were following the drought monitor, we started to creep back into the initial stages of the drought until the retrograde low moved in. OKC itself at least has a proper water conservation plan in place to help delay any returning drought conditions with mandatory odd/even watering all the time now and varying levels based on lake levels.

[OKCisOK4me]

Pretty amazing that that is possible when you're +21" above normal...

I was talking to a friend who lives in that area of Texas that's kinda WNW of Fort Worth and south of Wichita Falls and their 2 day rainfall total was 14.3" which has put nary a dent in their 5-year drought. Still better than nothing I told her... Certain, the folks at Canton would take that rain in their watershed.

[mkjeeves]

Well after all the rain, Canton is at 19.13% full now. So it really didn't help them that much. It'll probably take the Fall and Winter to recover there unless we get more rain up there. I would imagine we'll see it go up some as the water travels down to it.

Hopefully that's at least enough to stave off the predicted fish kill apocalypse.