Population Growth for OKC

[baralheia]

Here's a direct link to OKC's scorecard: https://assets2.hrc.org/files/assets...y-Oklahoma.pdf

It looks like the way their rankings work is, for specific categories, the city has multiple opportunities to earn points - they get points if the state, county, or city fulfills that category. Since none of the measured categories are implemented at a state or county level for OKC, leaving everything up to the city, our ranking does suffer because of that.

That said, I don't feel that our city is hostile to the LGBT community at all... At least, I've never felt threatened by the City. State law, on the other hand.... Yah, not so much.

[KayneMo]

July 2017 population estimates
OKC - 643,648 (+11.0% from 2010 Census)
Tulsa - 401,800 (+2.5% from 2010 Census)

https://www.cleveland.com/datacentra...Q08Q6221U50WMF

[Bunty]

Meanwhile, quite a few towns outside of Oklahoma City and Tulsa metros had population losses, led by Enid and Lawton, both fairly close to a 1000 each. On the bright side, Durant and Stillwater managed yet another year of population gains with Stillwater still struggling to make it over 50,000. If the losses in the towns continue, it will surely help explain why Oklahoma doesn't get past 4,000,000 in 2020.

[ChrisHayes]

Just because some of those towns are experiencing losses doesn't mean the people are moving out of state. Some are probably settling into other parts of the state such as OKC and Lawton. It's strange that Enid would be losing people as it's been growing for years now. Lawton, needs to figure something out to get more growth going on beyond just Ft Sill.

[SEMIweather]

Meanwhile, quite a few towns outside of Oklahoma City and Tulsa metros had population losses, led by Enid and Lawton, both fairly close to a 1000 each. On the bright side, Durant and Stillwater managed yet another year of population gains with Stillwater still struggling to make it over 50,000. If the losses in the towns continue, it will surely help explain why Oklahoma doesn't get past 4,000,000 in 2020.

Long, long term, it will be interesting to see what happens with Durant if the endless North Texas sprawl continues unabated. They are currently about 45-50 minutes north of the newest subdivisions (in between Van Alstyne and Anna).

[Bunty]

Just because some of those towns are experiencing losses doesn't mean the people are moving out of state. Some are probably settling into other parts of the state such as OKC and Lawton. It's strange that Enid would be losing people as it's been growing for years now. Lawton, needs to figure something out to get more growth going on beyond just Ft Sill.

Enid hasn't been the same since Continental moved from there to OKC and then the fall in oil prices. If losses keep up, it will fall below where it was in 2010.

They have been moving out of Lawton, too. Lawton went from 94,653 to 93,714. I think for the last two or three years Oklahoma's lowered pop. growth rate made it apparent it couldn't get to 4 million in time for 2020.

From 2016 to 2017 Oklahoma only went from 3,923,561 3,930,864 . The suburbs of OKC and Tulsa along with OKC itself are still adding pop. They are going to have to continue to take up the slack from losses in other towns in coming years to ensure Oklahoma doesn't start losing population. Maybe oil economy will get stronger to help.

[dcsooner]

As a native no longer living in the State, I have my ideas on WHY Oklahoma is lagging far behind its potential in population growth, but at the risk of being vilified I posit the question to those on this board who LIVE in Oklahoma. What are the Main Reasons (4-5) for Oklahomas historical and present day slow growth? What do YOU want to see happen to reverse the trend? I can tell you Raleigh NC where I now live is gaining about 30K citizens a year and WILL pass OKC in the 2020 census.

[ChrisHayes]

I personally don't want OKC growing at 30,000 per year. I'd like to see us growing at 15,000 or so per year. That can be absorbed. I think a problem is that many people don't know what Oklahoma City is. You got many people thinking Oklahoma City is a cattle town still. Then, many think Oklahoma is nothing but wheat fields. They don't realize it's one of the most geographically diverse states in the country. After the park and the CC Complex is up and running Oklahoma City needs to do an extensive promotion campaign to tell the country about itself. Show the new park, the growing downtown, the riverfront, all of the lakes around the city, Bricktown, etc. There's a lot do to in OKC, and it's only growing.

[bchris02]

I personally don't want OKC growing at 30,000 per year. I'd like to see us growing at 15,000 or so per year. That can be absorbed. I think a problem is that many people don't know what Oklahoma City is. You got many people thinking Oklahoma City is a cattle town still. Then, many think Oklahoma is nothing but wheat fields. They don't realize it's one of the most geographically diverse states in the country. After the park and the CC Complex is up and running Oklahoma City needs to do an extensive promotion campaign to tell the country about itself. Show the new park, the growing downtown, the riverfront, all of the lakes around the city, Bricktown, etc. There's a lot do to in OKC, and it's only growing.

But then you have the state legislature keeping that perception alive with virtually everything they do. I think a lot of people here underestimate how detrimental this state government is to OKC's potential. You can always point to crazy things happening in other states but you can also point to what those states are doing right. Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina are perfect examples of that. What is Oklahoma (at the state level) doing to improve itself and turn its economy around? The never-ending focus on guns, gays, abortion, and religion is going to assure things stay as they are in Oklahoma. If this state was to get serious about fixing education and infrastructure and stop trying to police everyone's vices and private lives, I think people would be amazed how fast things would turn around.

[dankrutka]

^^^
Could you be more specific on the differences? What is different between the legislative focus of Oklahoma and the states you mentioned? All those states have recently made national news for the exact legislation you just criticized. I live in Texas and think the legislature is worse on the issues you mentioned. Also, can you provide more specific legislation those states have passed you’d like to see passed? Thanks in advance.

[Motley]

Not sure what the immediate concerns are in those states, but they all seem to have more robust and modern infrastructure and higher education systems. I imagine none of that was possible without the state governments willing to invest in them.

[Video Expert]

^^^
Could you be more specific on the differences? What is different between the legislative focus of Oklahoma and the states you mentioned? All those states have recently made national news for the exact legislation you just criticized. I live in Texas and think the legislature is worse on the issues you mentioned. Also, can you provide more specific legislation those states have passed youÂ’d like to see passed? Thanks in advance.

I wouldn't hold my breath expecting any specifics from him. Bring up anything to do with something negative about Oklahoma, and you'll always get the same tired and worn out BS reasoning that it's all caused by "Religion, Guns, Gays, Abortion, Religion, State Legislature, Religion, Religion, Religion, etc. Yet he conveniently forgets it's his beloved North Carolina who was embroiled in the recent bathroom gender controversy, district "gerrymandering" uproar, plus much more. And all of that doesn't seem to have stifled any growth out there, has it?? He also fails to mention that when our State was run for decades by the other party, they were just as inept (and corrupt) and failed to advance policies that generated significant population gains or economic growth. Time for some new theories...

[gopokes88]

But then you have the state legislature keeping that perception alive with virtually everything they do. I think a lot of people here underestimate how detrimental this state government is to OKC's potential. You can always point to crazy things happening in other states but you can also point to what those states are doing right. Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina are perfect examples of that. What is Oklahoma (at the state level) doing to improve itself and turn its economy around? The never-ending focus on guns, gays, abortion, and religion is going to assure things stay as they are in Oklahoma. If this state was to get serious about fixing education and infrastructure and stop trying to police everyone's vices and private lives, I think people would be amazed how fast things would turn around.

North Carolina just lost several massive events because of their bathroom law. The “Oklahoma has the worst and stupid legislature” is fake news. It’s a massive lie this board keeps perpetuating over and over.

Every states legisalture is dumb.

The weather is huge deterrent. The tornado perception does us no favors along with brutally hot summers and cold winters. The wind always blows.

The week of spring is always pretty nice though.

[Video Expert]

Not sure what the immediate concerns are in those states, but they all seem to have more robust and modern infrastructure and higher education systems. I imagine none of that was possible without the state governments willing to invest in them.

Here's a theory with at least some meat on the bone. But if you want to blame the state government for this, better be prepared to blame both parties.

[gopokes88]

Boosting OU and OSU’s funding so they can offer more scholarships and increase their endowments is one way. Pull more kids from Texas, and work to keep them in the state after graduation. That’s one way to do it.

[Motley]

All I heard when moving back was about tornadoes, tornadoes, tornadoes. I used to think OK's problems were due to weather, but Texas has the same weather as here, maybe even hotter. Except for an incredible infrastructure and the amenities that come with size, Dallas is no better than OKC in anyway. It's not prettier, hillier, nearer a good ocean, or less conservative. I have to believe it had great support in DC to push for investments in the area and leadership that foresaw the value of building DFW and establishing international trade zones around it.

[dcsooner]

But then you have the state legislature keeping that perception alive with virtually everything they do. I think a lot of people here underestimate how detrimental this state government is to OKC's potential. You can always point to crazy things happening in other states but you can also point to what those states are doing right. Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina are perfect examples of that. What is Oklahoma (at the state level) doing to improve itself and turn its economy around? The never-ending focus on guns, gays, abortion, and religion is going to assure things stay as they are in Oklahoma. If this state was to get serious about fixing education and infrastructure and stop trying to police everyone's vices and private lives, I think people would be amazed how fast things would turn around.

This comment aligns with many of my views. I would also say some in Oklahoma WANT the State to remain status quo . I would add the States obsession with incarceration of its citizens. Oklahoma makes a lot of money on Jailing people. The OKC Chamber of Commerce President recently voiced your position that State GOVERNANCE causes many Companies to not even consider the State. How sad is that. This is not happening in Texas, NC or Georgia who seem to get Companies almost monthly. Add The NCAA is returning to NC.

[bchris02]

This comment aligns with many of my views. I would also say some in Oklahoma WANT the State to remain status quo . I would add the States obsession with incarceration of its citizens. Oklahoma makes a lot of money on Jailing people. The OKC Chamber of Commerce President recently voiced your position that State GOVERNANCE causes many Companies to not even consider the State. How sad is that. This is not happening in Texas, NC or Georgia who seem to get Companies almost monthly. Add The NCAA is returning to NC.

I think this is the case. The incarceration rate is another big one like you said. However, people don't seem to want to acknowledge that there's a problem especially if it concerns the state legislature. One can say other state legislatures are nutty, but there has to be a reason that states like Texas, NC, and Georgia get corporate relocations by the dozens while at the same time it's a very rare deal for Oklahoma. I think the bottom line is most people are happy with the status quo in Oklahoma, for better or for worse, and don't really see a need to change course.

[jonny d]

I think this is the case. The incarceration rate is another big one like you said. However, people don't seem to want to acknowledge that there's a problem especially if it concerns the state legislature. One can say other state legislatures are nutty, but there has to be a reason that states like Texas, NC, and Georgia get corporate relocations by the dozens while at the same time it's a very rare deal for Oklahoma. I think the bottom line is most people are happy with the status quo in Oklahoma, for better or for worse, and don't really see a need to change course.

You going to respond to Dankrutka's question for specifics? You like to play in generalities. Give him (and by proxy, us) some specifics answers to his question. See post 1235.

[bradh]

DFW, Houston, Atlanta and Charlotte are all major airline hubs. There are often many reasons those cities are chosen for things. It's a mix of all of it.

[gopokes88]

All I heard when moving back was about tornadoes, tornadoes, tornadoes. I used to think OK's problems were due to weather, but Texas has the same weather as here, maybe even hotter. Except for an incredible infrastructure and the amenities that come with size, Dallas is no better than OKC in anyway. It's not prettier, hillier, nearer a good ocean, or less conservative. I have to believe it had great support in DC to push for investments in the area and leadership that foresaw the value of building DFW and establishing international trade zones around it.

The mega Texas cities do not have the tornado threats we have, and they all have mild winters. Okc seems to all have some extreme or another.

I agree with the posters that say too much growth would be tough. We can barely get an interchange built in 20 years. Growth would only exasperate some problems.

[mugofbeer]

Not sure what the immediate concerns are in those states, but they all seem to have more robust and modern infrastructure and higher education systems. I imagine none of that was possible without the state governments willing to invest in them.

I don't see NCs legislature being much different than OK. NC has natural beauty, a long-term committment to excellent higher ed, is mid-way between the megalopolis of Boston-DC and Florida, has a prime ocean coast and 3x the population of OK. Think how nice it would be if OKC had a huge reservoir 15 miles outside of town the way most NC cities do for beauty, water, retirement living and recreation

[Bunty]

I don't see NCs legislature being much different than OK. NC has natural beauty, a long-term committment to excellent higher ed, is mid-way between the megalopolis of Boston-DC and Florida, has a prime ocean coast and 3x the population of OK. Think how nice it would be if OKC had a huge reservoir 15 miles outside of town the way most NC cities do for beauty, water, retirement living and recreation

I guess you missed it when the Oklahoma Legislature cut funding for higher education by nearly 16% in 2016. I thought it was to get back at promoters, in case they succeeded, who were behind a question to raise state sales tax by a penny to provide funding for education, including some for higher education. The question failed to pass. Since then I think legislators took that as a cue for them to be opposed to any tax hikes for education and why they had one heck of a time this past session before finally arriving at a bill to raise teacher pay.

[Video Expert]

Solution to lowering the incarceration rate...

[mugofbeer]

My info is that the legislation was written 3 weeks before but because teachers wanted more, it took the drawn out tome to pass. Nevertheless, where NCs legislature does support higher ed, they keep shooting themselves with religion-based bills such as some of their non-gay-friendly stuff.

NC just has some natural advantages because of location and natural beauty that overcomes its legislature.