Maps 3 new consideration...

[JavaDaves]

Never is such a strong word...AND the new arena won't cost anywhere near $500 million...More like $250 so let's please stop quoting the half a billion figure

So you put $150 million into the Ford Center, and you have a $250 million new arena. Solved!

There's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve. I repeat, there's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve.

[Easy180]

So you put $150 million into the Ford Center, and you have a $250 million new arena. Solved!

There's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve. I repeat, there's nothing wrong with the Ford Center, that a few upgrades can't solve.

May I ask you how you can upgrade the Ford Center to the tune of $150 Million?...Thats some serious locker rooms and suites since it cost more than the entire arena

$50 Mil on upgrades and $250 Mil right along the river

And you may think the Ford center is perfect, but Bennett has already made it known a new arena will be expected if he comes back home...So I take it you will take Seattle's stance if the Sonics come to OKC java?

It's cool if you do, but the end result would likely be the same as they are now experiencing

[soonerliberal]

Ok folks, a brand spanking new arena is not going to give OKC amazing name recognition. We could spend more money on different things that will give us recognition. How will a new arena make us any different than any other city? Is there anything unique or outstanding about having a $250 million arena vs. the Ford Center? Yes, the Hornets provided an amazing showcase of the city and we proved ourselves as a place that is capable of the big time, but the Sonics do not need a new arena. We do not need to be indebted to a sports team. $50 million in improvements to the Ford Center would be more than enough to hold us over for 10-15 years. If not, do we really want the NBA here? Face it, the NBA is NOT the only way or thing to draw visitors and new residents to the city. Let's focus on new and innovative ideas to make OKC great, not just another arena.

[Easy180]

Ok folks, a brand spanking new arena is not going to give OKC amazing name recognition. We could spend more money on different things that will give us recognition. How will a new arena make us any different than any other city? Is there anything unique or outstanding about having a $250 million arena vs. the Ford Center? Yes, the Hornets provided an amazing showcase of the city and we proved ourselves as a place that is capable of the big time, but that will not happen again. Face it, the NBA is NOT the only way or thing to draw visitors and new residents to the city. Let's focus on new and innovative ideas to make OKC great, not just another arena.

liberal...A new arena won't directly give us amazing name recognition, but obtaining and retaining an NBA team will....It has already been proven

Not as if we can't do anything else in the entire city if we build an arena starting in 5 years ...Can do many other innovative ideas that with the NBA around will get much more publicity than w/o

[John]

The Ford Center is not 'new', by any means.

[JavaDaves]

but Bennett has already made it known a new arena will be expected if he comes back home...

For one, he already has a new arena. It's called the Ford Center.

For two, he's never said that building a newer arena in Oklahoma City was expected. So, your statement is incorrect.

For three, if Bennett can't live with the Ford Center, screw him. Bring Shinn back to town.

[JavaDaves]

Ok folks, a brand spanking new arena is not going to give OKC amazing name recognition. We could spend more money on different things that will give us recognition. How will a new arena make us any different than any other city? Is there anything unique or outstanding about having a $250 million arena vs. the Ford Center? Yes, the Hornets provided an amazing showcase of the city and we proved ourselves as a place that is capable of the big time, but the Sonics do not need a new arena. We do not need to be indebted to a sports team. $50 million in improvements to the Ford Center would be more than enough to hold us over for 10-15 years. If not, do we really want the NBA here? Face it, the NBA is NOT the only way or thing to draw visitors and new residents to the city. Let's focus on new and innovative ideas to make OKC great, not just another arena.

I agree. Having an NBA team in a world class facility, while at the same time letting the rest of your city deteriorate, is ridiculous.

Austin is a pretty classy town on the move, and they don't have an NBA team.

The renaissance in OKC was built by the many MAPS projects, not by one single arena. We need to continue that trend, continuing to improve our downtown.

MAPS III should be for commuter rail and Core to Shore. Period.

We can't do everything, and we're going to have to make some choices.

We can either do 1. commuter rail, improvements to the Ford Center, and Core to Shore, or 2. a new arena. I'd rather have all that's listed in option #1.

[JavaDaves]

The Ford Center is not 'new', by any means.

If it was built in the last 5 years, it's considered new.

[mranderson]

The Ford Center is not 'new', by any means.

The Ford Center is, I think, five years old. That is NOT old. In fact, to make a real estate investment viable is being able to recoop your investment within ten years. The Ford Center has yet to do so.

No new arena yet. If they want to improve it, fine, however, a new one is a waste of money.

[JavaDaves]

The Ford Center is, I think, five years old. That is NOT old. In fact, to make a real estate investment viable is being able to recoop your investment within ten years. The Ford Center has yet to do so.

No new arena yet. If they want to improve it, fine, however, a new one is a waste of money.

[Easy180]

I would like to word it very differently, but could you please point out the posts that suggest we build a new arena next month??

I don't really care if it's tied to a Maps or not...It will come into play whether you like it or not within 10 years IF we land an NBA team

Guess we will put you down for a no vote when it does

[Patrick]

I would actually vote no if it came up to vote for MAPS III. I'm with the others that say we already have a fairly new arena, that's very expandable and upgradable. We have more pressing needs as a city that need to be addressed to keep the renaissance moving forward. For instance, we're way far behind other cities when it comes to our public transportation system. And has already been mentioned, the new development south of I-40 could easily cost over $1 billion. Those needs should be addressed before we discuss replacing an arena that we just opened not to long ago.

[Pete]

Plus, we have to seize the opportunity in the next MAPS to properly develop the old I-40 corridor and lands south.

How many cities get a chance to completely redevelop an area immediately adjacent to their current CBD and just as large? And do it right when the city is the middle of a massive turn-around??

Things have set up perfectly with the timing and we have to jump on it. If nothing else, we need to develop that boulevard properly, build a large amout of convention space and at least secure most the core to shore land. In the short term, it could become a huge park and in the longer term development could be added... Just as long as we shake up OCURA first.

[HOT ROD]

I think the citizens of OKC should vote yes, regardless if a new arena shows-up in the initiative.

But, I seriously doubt it will. The Ford Center is 5 years old and has yet to have all of the luxury amenities added to it (which the city already has the $$ for and already knew it would update at a later point). And, Bennet being from OKC would already know what OKC has to offer and would probably be more interested in zero rent and exclusitivity at Ford. Also he is full aware that I-40 will be moving in a few years and a new arena could be built across the Ford Center as part of the master-plan, and either demolish and rezone the Cox for CBD skyscraper expansion (my pref) and build a new much larger conv center and hotel complex near the new arena or just turn Cox into complete convention. Regardless, this would be a MAPS IV or V, as I-40 would need to be moved already, and Bennett is aware of this.

He also might be interested in "the amenities". That is really where a MAPS 3 might come in, if the amenities will cost more than what the city has on hand - include practice facility to that - then those might show up but they should total less than $40M in my opinion.

Honestly, I hope the practice facility gets built near OCU. Not only is it the perfect location in the central city area and one of the most diverse but also it would tie into OCU's intentions on becoming big time NCAA, which basketball would be their markee sport. An NBA practice facility nearby or on campus could be an excellent recruiting tool for the school as well as provide an instant link to the community for the SONICS AND OCU for that matter. Plus, it would add some positive infill to the blighted area where OCU is - adding one more (or two) buildings to help create density there, not to mention land is cheap also.

I think OCU is one of our best assets that is far underutilized - just because it is a private school. Well, add in the city's new NBA team's practice facility, then that might just be the catalyst to put OCU into the NCAA div 1, improve OCU relations/visibility in the city, and give that "personal touch" for the SONICS to the OKC community.

I think it would be a win-win.

[writerranger]

Hot Rod, What's the latest on OCU's effort to return the basketball program to NCAA Division 1 status? What year are they shooting for? (Pardon the pun.) Sorry, off-topic, but a quick answer would be nice. Just really curious.

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[HOT ROD]

Writer, I actually am not aware.

But I think the city and the university can both capitalize and sort of combine efforts. It would ONLY further enhance Oklahoma City's image as well as our basketball community if we were to locate the practice facility near/at the OCU campus. What a recruiting tool - and those players could/might want to stay in Oklahoma City once they go pro, assuming such.

And OKC surely would get visibility from an OCU team in the NCAA, its a win-win. But I don't have any insight on OCU's plans - I'd think basketball would be their markee team; I am presupposing tho.

[John]

The Ford Center is, I think, five years old. That is NOT old. In fact, to make a real estate investment viable is being able to recoop your investment within ten years. The Ford Center has yet to do so.

I never said it was an old arena, it's just not new. There are a lot of oudated things about it.

And it has definately returned our investment in it. It's paid for itself already -- the impact of the Hornets, Big XII Championships, and scores of concerts have more than covered it.

[mranderson]

I never said it was an old arena, it's just not new. There are a lot of oudated things about it.

And it has definately returned our investment in it. It's paid for itself already -- the impact of the Hornets, Big XII Championships, and scores of concerts have more than covered it.

Show me some evidence that Ford Center has recovered their investment. Do you have their profit and loss statements for each year since it opened?

And, I believe it WAS said that Ford Center was old. Plus. No matter how you look at it, the building is still considered new. Maybe not "brand new," however, it is still new by commercial standards.

[Easy180]

This is from '03

Oklahoma City experienced a direct economic impact of $53 million last year as a result of the events held at the Ford Center and the Civic Center, city officials said Wednesday.

According to Tom Anderson, special projects manager for the Oklahoma City manager's office, area hotels, retailers and restaurants experienced a $29 million impact from the Ford Center in the seven months that it was open in 2002.

"We had an incredible year for the city-owned facilities," he said. "We never thought the Oklahoma City market could support these events, but we have had sellout after sellout."

The $87.7 million arena opened on June 8, 2002, and was part of the Metropolitan Area Projects

The Civic Center Music Hall, which underwent a $44 million renovation as part of the MAPS program, also contributed an economic impact of $24 million to the city in 2002. Anderson said much of that impact was a result of the monthlong run of the Broadway hit Phantom of the Opera in the fall of last year.

Anderson also noted that city sales tax revenues greatly benefited in 2002 from the economic impact of both facilities.

[mranderson]

This is from '03

Oklahoma City experienced a direct economic impact of $53 million last year as a result of the events held at the Ford Center and the Civic Center, city officials said Wednesday.

According to Tom Anderson, special projects manager for the Oklahoma City manager's office, area hotels, retailers and restaurants experienced a $29 million impact from the Ford Center in the seven months that it was open in 2002.

"We had an incredible year for the city-owned facilities," he said. "We never thought the Oklahoma City market could support these events, but we have had sellout after sellout."

The $87.7 million arena opened on June 8, 2002, and was part of the Metropolitan Area Projects

The Civic Center Music Hall, which underwent a $44 million renovation as part of the MAPS program, also contributed an economic impact of $24 million to the city in 2002. Anderson said much of that impact was a result of the monthlong run of the Broadway hit Phantom of the Opera in the fall of last year.

Anderson also noted that city sales tax revenues greatly benefited in 2002 from the economic impact of both facilities.

This does not proove whether or not the city of Oklahoma City has recovered their investment in the Ford Center. All this article says is the business expansion as a result of MAPS I. Those businesses are the ones cited as making gains, not the Ford Center.

[JavaDaves]

All this shows is economic impact. It doesn't show what the city itself has received in return, in tax dollars and rent.

[JavaDaves]

The Civic Center Music Hall, which underwent a $44 million renovation as part of the MAPS program, also contributed an economic impact of $24 million to the city in 2002. Anderson said much of that impact was a result of the monthlong run of the Broadway hit Phantom of the Opera in the fall of last year.

Exactly. So it's time to tear down Civic Center and build a new performance hall.

[Easy180]

Absolutely...Once 1/2 of the major Broadway shows from NYC decide to relocate here due to leasing problems

I like how you think java

Where ya getting the idea anyone wants the Ford Center torn down anyway?...Still be of use convention and concert wise with it's ideal location

[John]

Show me some evidence that Ford Center has recovered their investment. Do you have their profit and loss statements for each year since it opened?

And, I believe it WAS said that Ford Center was old. Plus. No matter how you look at it, the building is still considered new. Maybe not "brand new," however, it is still new by commercial standards.

You can find your own numbers. Easy's numbers are just from '03. We're four years removed from those numbers.

Also, I never said it was old. Maybe that was someone else. It is slightly outdated and worn, even if it is 5 years old.

[JavaDaves]

You can find your own numbers. Easy's numbers are just from '03. We're four years removed from those numbers.

Also, I never said it was old. Maybe that was someone else. It is slightly outdated and worn, even if it is 5 years old.

Exactly. You don't have any numbers to back up your statements. Besides, numbers don't really matter. The Ford Center has years of life left in it. And a majority of the citizens of Oklahoma City would think you're crazy if you suggested building a new arena, when we just completed an arena project.

What's outdated about the Ford Center?