Aquarium

[ShadowStrings]

Real question. How world class would a $100-150M aquarium be? I have no idea how much other world class aquariums have cost. As discussed in other threads, if we build an aquarium, we should do it right...does $100M get us there?

[onthestrip]

What are the chances the Aquarium & stadium could be built on the COOP site? That would be pretty spectacular.

I assume this will be the push. Why extend canal to only one attraction on COOP when you can have two.

I just dont want to see Sooner Investment developing the surrounding area. With two brand new attractions like aquarium and soccer stadium, it needs to be better than big box retail surrounding it. But they do have a former mayor working with them so who knows.

Also, the coop people are going to have to realize they cant ask for the moon for some dirty contaminated site, even if it is close to downtown.

But Im all for this in maps.

[Laramie]

Real question. How world class would a $100-150M aquarium be? I have no idea how much other world class aquariums have cost. As discussed in other threads, if we build an aquarium, we should do it right...does $100M get us there?

$125 million

[LocoAko]

Both the mayor and Urban Pioneer have stated pretty clearly already that there's no feasible way for this to make it onto the MAPS4 project list by tomorrow. Regardless of how or why this is only coming out now, perhaps we need to set our expectations appropriately so it isn't some outrageous scandal when tomorrow the proposed projects look like they were always going to for the past few weeks.

[onthestrip]

Not sure if I missed it elsewhere in this thread but Holt keeps tweeting something to the effect of “this won’t be on MAPS 4 but the conversation shouldn’t end here”

Interesting. This aquarium thing is becoming very strange.

Could we see some MAPS backlash if this isnt included? Or will people forget about it by the time the vote comes around?

[David]

https://twitter.com/davidfholt/statu...45584876982274

Thanks for the feedback. The aquarium proposal did not move forward in the process some time ago and will not be a part of MAPS 4, but the Zoo has its own permanent sales tax and the conversation about an aquarium doesn’t have to end here. Thanks again for the feedback!

I understand the logistics of why, but it will be a screw-up to proceed without a central project like this that people are clearly excited over.

[CloudDeckMedia]

David Holt's tweet this morning: "Thanks for the feedback. The aquarium proposal did not move forward in the process some time ago and will not be a part of MAPS 4, but the Zoo has its own permanent sales tax and the conversation about an aquarium doesn’t have to end here. Thanks again for the feedback!"

[jccouger]

Yeah, the Mayor is shooting it down completely.

I fully expect the Maps vote to fail now.

[Jake]

At least we get a really cool, uh, minor league stadium?

[Midtowner]

Not sure if I missed it elsewhere in this thread but Holt keeps tweeting something to the effect of “this won’t be on MAPS 4 but the conversation shouldn’t end here”

At this point, I'm one of those who will vote no on MAPS if it doesn't include an aquarium. The Council or the Chamber or whomever has kept the zoo from being part of the process. If this MAPS doesn't pass, they can try again next year with projects actually worthy of public support.

[Pete]

These slides should answer a lot of questions:

[Ross MacLochness]

You guys are silly. Please vote yes for thew sake of Bike lanes, public transit, sidewalks, trees, support for mental health, etc.. an aquarium is not nearly as important as these things that will actually improve quality of life for all people in meaningful ways.

[jedicurt]

deleted, after seeing Mayor Holt shoot the idea down and say it won't happen... sad, because this was my yes vote... and now i don't think there is a reason for me to support it.

[Urban Pioneer]

Interesting. This aquarium thing is becoming very strange.

I find it completely strange that all of sudden this is an issue the day before they publish the agenda. Where was all the outrage months ago? lolz

[Urban Pioneer]

it's what makes me think they realized the current projects weren't polling well at all... and decided to take this idea that they didn't like, and try to push it last minute to get enough polling support to show it will pass

Who is "they"?

[dankrutka]

Maybe. It polled so badly though it was kicked to the curb.

Having worked several campaigns it is best to start early and focus on voter education so they understand what the initiative is. The Gazette was extremely helpful ten years ago as was OKCTALK in educating the public and policymakers about a fairly complicated endeavor (the streetcar). The Aquarium doesn't seem that complicated as a concept but I think a great many people would ask why the Zoo is supporting a location that isn't at the Zoo.

If they were serious about this they should have started meaningfully educating the public months ago. Getting nine people to agree on anything is like herding cats. Getting MAPS to include things like this takes a lot more work then some last-minute surprise.

All of these longer explanations seem to miss the point the aquarium seems to be both (a) the project the public wants and (b) the project that may save MAPS 4. Who cares if the process was bad? Technically, the process hasn't started... nothing is decided or final yet. And, the response seems to indicate the public does not care about minute details that the aquarium isn't at the zoo. OKC's political leaders including Holt will have to decide if they are going to be responsive and successful or stubborn and risk losing MAPS 4. While I personally don't feel as passionate about the aquarium idea the public response is overwhelming.

[BoulderSooner]

I find it completely strange that all of sudden this an issue the day before they publish the agenda. Where was all the outrage months ago? lolz

the "open process" (that was not really open at all) fully supressed this project a long time ago so it never actually got a fair shake

i suspect because if given a proper presentation by the zoo director would have become a must have on the MAPS 4 list ..

[BoulderSooner]

I find it completely strange that all of sudden this an issue the day before they publish the agenda. Where was all the outrage months ago? lolz

the "open process" (that was not really open at all) fully supressed this project a long time ago so it never actually got a fair shake

i suspect because if given a proper presentation by the zoo director would have become a must have on the MAPS 4 list ..

[OKCRT]

deleted, after seeing Mayor Holt shoot the idea down and say it won't happen... sad, because this was my yes vote... and now i don't think there is a reason for me to support it.

I bet you are correct. And what they are proposing needs to double in size IMO if you want to have a real regional attraction.

Seem like a shell game being played

[jdg78]

Here is another perspective. I like the aquarium idea but not as part of the COOP. It is stupid to think we should dump a 150 million dollars subsidy into an area that the developer can’t figure out what to do with it. Also, your crazy to think the renderings beside the aquarium itself would ever come to fruition.

The COOP has failed to realistically develop this site on their own due to unrealistic financial expectations. A public subsidy should not even be part of the discussion. The COOP and lumber yard owners would disproportionately benefit from this investment.

How bout we put it on the Zoo Amp site? Zoo owns the land. Don Hays presentation to council was a joke. The whole thing is a sham to help make the COOP more marketable. You know they will be asking millions for the dirt. Just like they did when the convention center was being considered at the COOP. This is MAPS for millionaires! Joke.

[David]

All of these longer explanations seem to miss the point the aquarium seems to be both (a) the project the public wants and (b) the project that may save MAPS 4. Who cares if the process was bad? Technically, the process hasn't started... nothing is decided or final yet. And, the response seems to indicate the public does not care about minute details that the aquarium isn't at the zoo. OKC's political leaders including Holt will have to decide if they are going to be responsive and successful or stubborn and risk losing MAPS 4. While I personally don't feel as passionate about the aquarium idea the public response is overwhelming.

This is a good point. This may be too late in the originally planned MAPS 4 process, but we have months until the vote. Delay and give this popular idea a fair review.

[Urban Pioneer]

All of these longer explanations seem to miss the point the aquarium seems to be both (a) the project the public wants and (b) the project that may save MAPS 4. Who cares if the process was bad? Technically, the process hasn't started... nothing is decided or final yet. And, the response seems to indicate the public does not care about minute details that the aquarium isn't at the zoo. OKC's political leaders including Holt will have to decide if they are going to be responsive and successful or stubborn and risk losing MAPS 4. While I personally don't feel as passionate about the aquarium idea the public response is overwhelming.

Well, the response by posters on here is pretty overwhelming definitely. And it is possible that the general public would be all for this. I would love it personally. But the majority of "likely voters" has very clearly stated they do not want more MAPS investment downtown and they want the human needs crisis addressed.

The actual MAPS voter is not terribly emblematic of the average public.

[CloudDeckMedia]

You are making a mistake by thinking this is an "either-or" decision: "Either the aquarium is in MAPS4 or I won't vote for it." As Mayor Holt tweeted, the Zoo has its own dedicated sales tax.

Question: What is the Zoo Trust doing to promote an aquarium that WOULDN'T be paid through MAPS? If they're NOT doing that, then they're not hearing what people want.

[Laramie]

In all fairness, let's see what is selected from presented proposals; then voice your opinions to city hall--if you don't think they aren't listening, they have too much at stake to not lend an ear.

[Pete]

Hope to get him to explain this: