NBA for OKC- Hornets Relocating

[Doug Loudenback]

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If anything should change their minds, it would be statements like the above. I thought you wanted to welcome teams here, not chase them away.

They are not OUR hornets.... please don't go there. It is only furthering our image of scavenging vultures circling the kill. Please be respectful of the calamity that has occurred.

I am hoping fervently that the powers that be are not reading this board.

Personally, I agree 1000% with what Karrie said.

I'd be sorely dismayed, and enormously personally embarrassed, if OKC would become a vulture that circles around the prey of the the enornous horrible Gulf Coast tragedy, including the grand city of New Orleans. My enourmous pride in what Okahoma City has done by its own bootstrings would turn to becoming an uttterly desloate abyss. No pride ... nothing positive ... nothing I'd want to associate with. That sort of thing, if Okc seized upon New Orleans' misfortune to try to find its "sports" place in the sun, would be unspeakably horrible. If I had any pride remaining in Oklahoma City, that single bleak fact would somehow have to be reconciled or ignored. I'd not be inclined to ignore it, and reconcilliation would likely be difficult, aside from the greed/avarice that is probably inherent in the human species.

New Orleans will have its legacy, and hopefully it will beocme revitalized again. But, to the point for Oklahoma Citians, what kind of a legacy would you want Okc to have, of that as a good Samaritan or a of that as opportunistic vulture? If the latter would come to pass, I cannot begin to say how shamed I would be by association to identify with the City of Oklahoma City. And, to the extent that any of you who have posted here have opinions to the contrary, I'd simply add my opinion, "Shame, shame. Next time, maybe the vultures will circle your home."

It's fine to help and to have a welcome guest during the interlude between now and until that area gets itself going again ... but "OUR Hornets", that's an incredibly uncivilized and enormously rude and insensitive thing to say.

It would be good to be temporary hosts, to be sure, but to sieze on the Gulf Coast's incredible misfortune, please, god (and I'm not a religious person, else I'd capitalized your name), please tell me that none who have spoken in this thread would want that to be so.

Opportunism certainly has its place, everything else being equal. Everything is not equal.

Okc is not ravaged by the worst hurricane to strike America. New Orleans is exactly the opposite.

I'd not be happy to think that history would find that Oklahoma City "got its start" in the sports bigtime game by being a vulture. I'd be proud if history said, "Oklahoma City unselfishly helped during the 2005-2007 New Orleans restortation and gratiously sent its welcomed temporary visitors back to New Orleans, where they belonged after time passed, and the two cities thereafter enjoyed a warm feeling between themselves because of that for years to come."

[PUGalicious]

I agree completely, Karried and Doug.

[floater]

I've tried not to rain on these sports hopes, but I admit, I don't like the way we're getting our chance. It does seem opportunistic, no matter how we smooth things over by saying that staying in Louisiana would be everybody's first choice. I can understand wanting to get the word out that OKC is a major league city, but let's do it with some class.

[HOT ROD]

I agree with what you all are saying, but you have to remember one thing... Life goes on!

Often times we have tragedy. Something goes wrong or some catastrophe prohibits "normalcy" as we know it. But does that mean we sit back defeated?

OKC has lost out time and time again, to tornadoes, to Indianapolis, to St. Paul, to Terry McVey (or whatever his name was). On and On.

But life goes on. New Orleans is a great city that unfortunately had a major catastrophe. This will most likely result in much of the city being relocated, businesses and residents. It may prove too difficult or expensive to rebuild there.

So, do we sit here and let our brand new NBA ready arena (the only available one in the nation, mind you) go to waste? or do we offer it as a temporary home in the homes that we could secure permanent residency?

I say the latter. Things happen. But life moves on. My heart goes out to the victims of the Katrina tragedy - as you all, but if we dont get the "spoils" someone else will. And they wont think twice about the "ethics" of it. Dont believe me? Ask Kansas City.

They had their NBA team taken away from them. You dont think they are not jumping at the chance to get the Hornets???? They would be a big 3 major league city again if the NBA returned (NBA, NFL, MLB)! But KC can not compete with OKC on this one.

Should we put our tail in the sand on the grounds of Ethics and say, HEY we dont want the team because of what happened to New Orleans??? Huh???

What about the stuff that was taken from OKC? United Airlines? St Paul getting a second chance to bid for NHL and NOT OKC - hence landing them a team???? After the OKC bombing, many regional hqs that OKC had for the federal govt were moved away from here - not to return??????? Arent you guys tired of losing, isnt it enough being too conservative????

Come on people, we all feel the tragedy of what happened but life moves on. During your May 1999 tornado event, it was on the news for a week; then Poof. Life Moved On.

Ditto that for the OKC Bombing, on the news for Months. Then, Life Moved On.

MSY will be devistated by Katrina for years to come - does that mean we "hold" everything for them in the hopes they return to their glory?

Honestly, most of us on this forum aren't in the know anyway about these issues. It will come down to a business decision. As a business decision, it makes perfect sense to move the team to OKC in the interim. As a business decision, it might make perfect sense to move the team to OKC permanently!

Ethics or not, life moves on. And there is nothing unethical about that!

[flyingcowz]

Joe brings a good point in his email. Although his quote of 200.00 is quite high, he is saying if you can not afford NBA you still have professional basketball. Plus, the ABA could be the development team for our NBA team... In the same city. So, you will have a choice. I would go to both.

Actually, the NBA has their own development league. It is called the NBDL. Tulsa has an NBDL team. Each team is associated with a team in the NBA.

[PUGalicious]

HOT ROD, for me (and I believe for a few others), what's hard to stomach is how some on this forum are so desperate to have professional team that they are "licking their chops" at the opportunity to gain something even if it means taking advantage of another's misfortune. It's the greedy attitude that suspends compassion for a city facing great loss by insisting they couldn't possibly support the team in the near future so we "deserve" to become the permanent home. It's akin to kicking a man while he's still down.

And, frankly, as others have said. It lacks class. We'll take something we're desperate for any way we can get it. It's that same attitude that leads to looting, something deplored elsewhere in this forum. If we can't earn it on our own, let's profit from another's misfortune.

I was in Indianapolis when the Colts moved from Baltimore to Indy in literally a middle-of-the-night move. Indianapolis gained, but at a price. For several years after the fact, others viewed Indianapolis with disdain as if they stole the Colts from Baltimore. It took awhile for that stigma to wear off.

We have enough stigmas in OKC — too conservative, behind the trends, not a major league city. We don't need to add another — opportunistic.

[Decious]

Being opportunistic is a great attribute for a growing city to have, but like everything else the motive has to be considered. The decision to temporarily move the New Orleans franchise was made by the NBA and the Hornets, not OKC. Even then, their will to do so was dictated by forces beyond their control. George Shin, the Hornets owner, has been saying for some time that a relocation of the team was possible and would be a desirable move for the betterment of his business interests. However, this past week, he has been saying that he loves New Orleans and with every fiber of his being wants to remain in that locale. I applaud him for his latter comments because they show that he identifies with the pain and suffering that the gulf area is enduring. At least in words, he is empathic to the important issues at hand. The NBA says that their hearts and prayers go out to the families of those in despair and have aided them in various ways via donations and such. In a totally seperate vein, they also say that unfortunately, the Hornets will have to be temporarily moved because of the tragedy. Neither is being fake, they are simply doing their job while still being respectful to the losses and misfortunes of others. They are not being shady or hypocritical.

It is unfair and unreasonable to label an entire city as being parasitic because of the agendas that exist within a minute micro-community that exists only in word. I too, am annoyed by some peoples lack of feeling and sympathy, but no one should be made to feel ashamed to be excited about a possible good thing. The news reports that I have seen on tv have all called the possible move temporary and haven't been talking about renaming New Orleans' team. There have also been numerous stories about many, many people from the OKC area helping the cause in the gulf states. Obviously, there are a few on this forum that primarily care about being "right", even though they might be totally wrong. They might have threatened to call you out and ridicule those that disagreed with them. There are some who will call OKC vulturous if we host the team just as a means to keep us from getting too happy, when in all actuality, they could have made a good host if their arena was completed.


Just because there are people talking about other people eating crow and other nonsense doesn't mean that you should stoop to that level. Don't take a pseudo high ground that in truth is just as agenda filled and convoluted as the propaganda that they are spraying. When you're driving and a funeral procession passes, you pause out of respect. You don't cry. That does not mean that you are callous, it means you're human. I had family in New Orleans who evacuated and am thankful that they are out. I'm touched by what I see in the media and am doing all that I can to help. I also gave all that I could to the boys and girls club of greater New Orleans before this tragedy struck. My donations even then, were not an existential tax write-off or a means to feel good about myself. They were needed.
No evacuee that I've spoken to has given a damn about the Hornets, or the Saints. They don't care about the Superdome or the French Quarter for that matter. Sports isn't important to them right now, but they will be again as they heal. There are husbands who are separated from their wives. There are parents who sent their children away to safety and stayed behind in hopes of ensuring their kids survival. Rest assured, the children cried, but when they got the water they drank it and when they got food, they swallowed. They didn't fast in honor of the fact that their parents were still without. I'm also sure that when the parents told their kids that everything was going to be ok, they didn't know whether or not they were telling the truth. Nevertheless, they smiled and said it anyway.


Right is relative. Relief is relative. The motive is what counts. If I'm excited about the possibility of being able to see pro basketball in my own backyard for a year, that doesn't make me unfeeling. I am quite the opposite. Awesomely extraordinary circumstances taking place that force the hands on many do not validate any viewpoint one way or the other. Some people talking about I told you so and other crap just need to shut up and learn to particitpate in the forum and stop living in it. Still, a entire region or city cannot be judged based on the renegade opinions and heart of a few within a micro-community. Don't you higher ground people become so obsessed with being right that you ignore the truth too. Also, people from Tulsa who have been touting that Tulsa would get a pro team first and blah blah, don't prostitute the false idea that everyone in OKC who would possibly attend a game is a vulture just to make yourself feel better being kinda wrong. The NBA brass said that they loved the Ford Center and that it will fit nicely into their list of arenas. They also said it would rank in the middle 1/3 of all current arenas. So it doesn't matter that you think it's ugly and call it a meatloaf and blah blah. Still, you might think it's ugly and that's your opinion, but it doesn't matter does it?
IF OKC hosts the New Orleans Hornets for a year, it will be just another result of Hurricane Katrina. Just like people not being able to evacuate because they are poor doesn't make them lazy, Oklahoma opening it's doors doesn't make us a thief. Stereotyping is never good. Nor is it ever correct. It always has an agenda. None of the ones at work here are important or hidden. OKCtalk isn't Oklahoma City. It's an online discussion forum. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[mranderson]

"OKCtalk isn't Oklahoma City. It's an online discussion forum. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Sorry, however, you are totally incorrect. This forum is more than a discussion form. We are a voice for the city, and a successful one.

My own employer takes this forum so seriously, they have issued a gag order prohibiting me from updating things about them. Most of what I have said was public record or easily obtainable by line of eyesight.

There have been ideas expressed on this forum and the ones previous to it that have gained attention. Those ideas may even include MAPS for Kids, as a plan was proposed on a "forum" several years before the plan was even mentioned at city council or on media outlets.

There have been ideas expressed that have been praised as great ideas which will be considered in the future.

Several people from this and other forums have sought or have been approached to seek public office, partly as a result of this forum.

Several public officials, including our own Mayor monitor this forum for ideas and feedback, and take it quite seriously.

At least one person on this forum is being considered for political appointment or other areas directly as a result of this forum.

For a lot of us, we are a group of friends. We socailize, we help each other, we support each other when we need it.

We are comprised of many areas including a singles support group, giving advise, and even willing to plan blind dates through OKC Talk personals when that develops.

You may look at this as "just a forum" however, most of us do not. It is our hobby, it is our mission, it is our community service. We are a voice of the people. The largest message board dedicated to our city.

If a major employer will take this so seriously, they order their staff not to write about them because it is read by so many people, or if civic leaders will see this as a voice, then it is more than "just a forum."

Now the topic. Yes. I feel for the people of Louisiana and Mississippi. However, I would bet if the tables were turned and WE had the major league franchise, and another city offered to host it due to a major event, that city would use it as an oportunity to sell themeselves and prove myths wrong... And either be the permanant home if that team decided to move permanantly or to jockey for position in the next expansion or relocation. Yes. It is a great thing to offer, however, it is also covering your bases. It is a business move as well as a compassionate gesture. It is known as carpe diem. I say again, I will take a major league franchise or any business any way I can get it. Most cities would do that to us, so, even if for a season, enjoy the gift.

[Decious]

Of course. I said that it was nothing more and nothing less than an online discussion platform. This is exactly what it is. I completely understand the value of this forum and have made that known many times before. It is definitely a platform for many other things and a meeting ground and social activity for many people, but it's a voice, not the voice. Because it is a great gateway to our city for some, it's important it give a true representation of the feeling this cities residents. We are not unfeeling and that why Karried hoped that your comments didn't make it seem that way to anyone who is viewing. Same for Doug, same for Scribe. The fact that I do understand the value of this forum underscores why I wish that no one is stereotyped or painted in a light that is unfair to them. Even when you speak you represent me and everyone else in OKC. I do not feel the need to be totally right, but I am also not totally incorrect. There is no need to try and make it seem like I am.

[PUGalicious]

Good perspective, Decious. Thanks for sharing.

[swake]

[QUOTE=mranderson]"OKCtalk isn't Oklahoma City. It's an online discussion forum. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Sorry, however, you are totally incorrect. This forum is more than a discussion form. We are a voice for the city, and a successful one.

My own employer takes this forum so seriously, they have issued a gag order prohibiting me from updating things about them. Most of what I have said was public record or easily obtainable by line of eyesight.


If a major employer will take this so seriously, they order their staff not to write about them because it is read by so many people, or if civic leaders will see this as a voice, then it is more than "just a forum."
QUOTE]

Oh come on, don’t be so full of yourself. In no public company is it ok to post any information about internal operations of that company on any message board, be it this one, yahoo business or whatever. It’s very possibly insider information that could be shared and as such can be a violation of securities law. Public companies take this very seriously. You are not special nor is this board in this regard, you are very lucky that if your employer has discovered that you have been sharing information about the company on this board that you are still employed.

[mranderson]

[QUOTE=swake]

"OKCtalk isn't Oklahoma City. It's an online discussion forum. Nothing more. Nothing less."

Sorry, however, you are totally incorrect. This forum is more than a discussion form. We are a voice for the city, and a successful one.

My own employer takes this forum so seriously, they have issued a gag order prohibiting me from updating things about them. Most of what I have said was public record or easily obtainable by line of eyesight.


If a major employer will take this so seriously, they order their staff not to write about them because it is read by so many people, or if civic leaders will see this as a voice, then it is more than "just a forum."
QUOTE]

Oh come on, don’t be so full of yourself. In no public company is it ok to post any information about internal operations of that company on any message board, be it this one, yahoo business or whatever. It’s very possibly insider information that could be shared and as such can be a violation of securities law. Public companies take this very seriously. You are not special nor is this board in this regard, you are very lucky that if your employer has discovered that you have been sharing information about the company on this board that you are still employed.

I said nearly everything I wrote was either public knowlege or obtainable by eyesight.That made it public domain. The one thing that was not public knowlege was a simple message that had no impact what so ever. It was minor. Many companies will respect the fact their staff is proud of things that are coming and willl allow them to spread the word. I never said a word about "internal operations." Plus. I was raised by a stock broker who owned a very large brokerage firm, so I am quite aware of insider trading laws and other securities issues. In fact, not only did my dad found his company, he also founded what is now known as the Oklahoma department of Securities. In addition, I never said I was special or the board being special in any regard except the importance the city officials find it.

Now. I suggest we get back on topic, please.

[chrisok]

The Hornets are not going to back to New Orleans. Hornets management is just paying lip service to New Orleans right now. New Orleans was dead last in attendance (14,000 per game.....and that's paid attendance. Actual attendance was more like 9500 per game.) They were looking to get out of there long before this hurricane hit. My guess is that they were waiting for Kansas City to finish their new arena before pulling up and moving. Now that circumstances have changed, Kansas City's new arena isn't ready yet, and no one wants to play in Kemper Arena.

I don't like the thought of looking like a bunch of vultures either. However, if given the opportunity we need to embrace this team as if it were our own. No matter how much people talk about this being a temporary move and the plans are to go back to New Orleans, I honestly believe that everyone involved will be examining OKC (or Louisville, Kansas City, Vancouver, etc) to see if it could work on a permanent basis.

[swake]

There are good reasons why the Hornets, if they move, are not going to move to Kansas City.

The first reason is that Kansas City is already over served for a city it’s size with pro-sports teams. Second, and this is similar to why OKC will never get the NFL, KU is only 20 miles west of the metro and any NBA team will always compete and come in second to Kansas basketball. The same as any NFL team would always come in second to OU football.

But, it would be horrible PR for the NBA to let the Hornets move, even if the ownership wanted to. They will not move in the near term, and it’s really in bad taste to wish otherwise.

[mranderson]

Actually, the NBA has their own development league. It is called the NBDL. Tulsa has an NBDL team. Each team is associated with a team in the NBA.

I am quite aware of that league. However, the ABA has made it clear that they intend to be a development league.

[flyingcowz]

Also, people from Tulsa who have been touting that Tulsa would get a pro team first and blah blah, don't prostitute the false idea that everyone in OKC who would possibly attend a game is a vulture just to make yourself feel better being kinda wrong.

Decious, I have to ask. What is your obsession with Tulsa? Why do you always want to show us up? I come here alot of times and congratulate OKC on upcoming things, All you do is try to bash Tulsa, and make yourself feel better. It's saddening that you have little man complex. Another saddening thing is your sentence structure. :]

Look, i'm happy for you guys. I seriously never thought Oklahoma would ever have a pro team. It's saddening that the only way we can get them is from anothers tragedy.

I still don't see them staying. College sports are too big in Oklahoma.

[BDP]

I honestly believe that everyone involved will be examining OKC (or Louisville, Kansas City, Vancouver, etc) to see if it could work on a permanent basis.

It will definitely be a test market, not just for the Hornet's owners, but for the NBA. If it is successful, whether the Hornets stay in their chosen temporary market or not, it will definitely move that market to the top of the list for the next expansion or relocation opportunity.

If OKC is chosen to help the Hornets out for the time being, no one should be too concerned with their long term plans or over zealous about the possibility. One, because, until the future of New Orleans becomes clear, it is disrespectful and, two, because if it is successful the NBA will find its way into the market on a permanent basis one way or another.

[mranderson]

Decious, I have to ask. What is your obsession with Tulsa? Why do you always want to show us up? I come here alot of times and congratulate OKC on upcoming things, All you do is try to bash Tulsa, and make yourself feel better. It's saddening that you have little man complex. Another saddening thing is your sentence structure. :]

Look, i'm happy for you guys. I seriously never thought Oklahoma would ever have a pro team. It's saddening that the only way we can get them is from anothers tragedy.

I still don't see them staying. College sports are too big in Oklahoma.

Dallas. Big on, actually, High School sports. Los Angeles, big on College sports. Many other major league markets are big on College sports and their major league franchises flourish. Just because a city is big on College sports does not mean they can not support major league.

Your comment about never. I have been saying for years, do not say "never." Never has the habit of creeping on you. The truth is, we CAN support these teams. I look forward to the day I can give all of your fellow nay sayers a big, fat "I told you so."

Tulsa getting major leagues before Oklahoma City?

[venture]

Oh come on, don’t be so full of yourself. In no public company is it ok to post any information about internal operations of that company on any message board, be it this one, yahoo business or whatever. It’s very possibly insider information that could be shared and as such can be a violation of securities law. Public companies take this very seriously. You are not special nor is this board in this regard, you are very lucky that if your employer has discovered that you have been sharing information about the company on this board that you are still employed.

Very good point, and I'm glad you make it. Some people think of themselves as elite just because they are working for a certain company. Most companies, public or not, are going to tell their employees to shut their trap if they are yakking online about them. When I worked for AOL many many moons ago, talking to the press was addressed with every employee with in the first week of being there.

Now the topic. Yes. I feel for the people of Louisiana and Mississippi. However, I would bet if the tables were turned and WE had the major league franchise, and another city offered to host it due to a major event, that city would use it as an oportunity to sell themeselves and prove myths wrong... And either be the permanant home if that team decided to move permanantly or to jockey for position in the next expansion or relocation. Yes. It is a great thing to offer, however, it is also covering your bases. It is a business move as well as a compassionate gesture. It is known as carpe diem. I say again, I will take a major league franchise or any business any way I can get it. Most cities would do that to us, so, even if for a season, enjoy the gift.

Just because another city MAY do it, we should? You show the perfect example of what is wrong in corporate America and the old style business way of thinking. Like has been said...they are now OUR Hornets. We are offering them a home. If they like the way it works out here, then so be it. However, it is too soon to claim them as our own. So relax and let things progress.

[jbrown84]

All you do is try to bash Tulsa, and make yourself feel better. It's saddening that you have little man complex.

It's saddening that the only way we can get them is from anothers tragedy.

First, how is Oklahoma City in any way the "little man"? Secondly, I've said it before and I will say it again: We would not be the front-runner to temporarily host the New Orleans Hornets if the NBA did not have confidence in OKC as a viable market for major league basketball, therefore, you can't say it's only because of the tragedy.

[flyingcowz]

First, how is Oklahoma City in any way the "little man"? Secondly, I've said it before and I will say it again: We would not be the front-runner to temporarily host the New Orleans Hornets if the NBA did not have confidence in OKC as a viable market for major league basketball, therefore, you can't say it's only because of the tragedy.

Read the whole post and you might understand it.

I said Decious has the little man complex not OKC.


So, your saying if the hurricane never destroyes NO, that the team would have still moved here at the same time.

I doubt that.

[Decious]

Decious, I have to ask. What is your obsession with Tulsa? Why do you always want to show us up? I come here alot of times and congratulate OKC on upcoming things, All you do is try to bash Tulsa, and make yourself feel better. It's saddening that you have little man complex. Another saddening thing is your sentence structure. :]

Look, i'm happy for you guys. I seriously never thought Oklahoma would ever have a pro team. It's saddening that the only way we can get them is from anothers tragedy.

I still don't see them staying. College sports are too big in Oklahoma.

You should be saddened by my sentence structure! I don't proof read my posts, so I'll tend to have run-ons and stuff like that. Sorry about that.

I can assure you that I don't have a little man complex, and ne person that knows me would laff their booty off if they heard ne1 say that about me. Also, I don't need to feel better. I'm extremely happy with my life and career. Actually, I'm overjoyed with them. Also, I can live anywhere I choose and actually like Tulsa. N-e-way, I was not aware that I seemed to be trying to bash Tulsa, but I can see how it may come off that way. 4 that I apologize, but u were 1 of da 1's who taught me that on OKCtalk and Tulsanow you're supposed to bicker back and forth about nonsense. Oh well. I must have misunderstood. (I'm tearing up) I always meant to be reactionary, not instigating.(I think I did a good job of that, but I guess not) I've only been perusing online forums for about a year now, but I'm stopping now.(horrible sentence-I'm so very very really ungrammer) They were a good way for me to kill time while I was in between sessions, and I feel like I got to know a number of great people, but I just don't fit in.(running on and on-pitiful) I still look forward to reading and learning from people like you though.(bad sentence again-I'm hopeless) Wow!! I really have learned a bunch.(another wack sentence) I didn't even know that Tulsa and OKC had some stupid little feud thing going on. Talk about being in the dark. I was so shocked! Maybe that's why I reacted to it like I did. I know you don't care, but please forgive me Flyingcowz. I'm not going to be doing anymore posting, so you won't have to c anymore of my drivel. But 4real, thnx 4 checking me!! & thnx 4 the free psycho analysis!! Seriously, I enjoy reading your posts on Tulsanow, u seem to be a cool dude. 4real! (awful)

[Karried]

oh Decious, stop that, you can't stop posting on this board and no one from Tulsa should have any say about our members here.... don't you dare let them chase you away.

[flyingcowz]

I'm not trying to chase him off or have any say. I also do not proof-read my posts.

I just noticed he always has to say something about Tulsa.

[TStheThird]

Cowz, why do you post on the Tulsa board about how badly you are treated here, but then continue to post and stir up trouble? I don't appreciate you trying to run my name through the mud with my Tulsa bretheren.