Connecting downtown to Health Sciences Center

[traxx]

There are a lot of rumors and urban legends involved with DD.

Such as.

[Spartan]

How important Deep Deuce was to someone probably depends on exactly when they lived there, and what they were into. You could live in Norman during the height of the Bud Wilkinson era, and if you didn't like football, you'd think there was nothing to do. If PP's friend lived in Deep Deuce after it's glory days, well, it wasn't the construction of I-235 that led to its decline. 235 just finished it off.

Do you know what ended Deep Deuce's glory days?

I am curious if it just waxed and waned with the ebb and flow of the Black Renaissance.. in which case, modern-day gentrification isn't an unfitting legacy.

[Prunepicker]

Such as.

Charlie Christian playing with the Blue Devils. It didn't happen.

[HOT ROD]

You know, I was driving around our expansive campus today between meetings and realized that we have a small freeway cap over WA-520 that connects both sides of Microsoft. I never even thought about it but today I did remember the cap not being there and there being a significant hindrance to getting around. It's just so commonplace today that one doesn't even think that it is indeed a 2009 or so construction because the expansive campus feels connected with it.

I think something even as simple as our little Freeway cap could work in OKC at Harrison Avenue probably (similar diagonal bridge, similar freeway and somewhat similar development (now) on both sides). Looks like Microsoft paid for most of it ($17M) but we did use some federal stimulus money to help build it. I'd imagine it shouldn't be too expensive to build something similar in OKC. ...

What's funny is even back then 'freeway cap' verbiage was not commonplace (or at least wasn't up here, since the Seattle Times calls it a bridge but it really is a landscaped, pedestrianized cap with bike trails running diagonally over 520).

[Prunepicker]

Urbanized,
Thanks for your like. This can become a hotly contested topic.

[Prunepicker]

Such as.

MLK leading a march over the Walnut street bridge into OKC in 1960.
Yes, he spoke at the famous Calvary Baptist Church. That's a fact.

At any rate, I can't find any information that MLK, whom I admire very much,
ever led a march in OKC.

[mugofbeer]

I know it won't be popular with some of you on this page, but I disagree with the notion of a highway splitting neighborhoods. I grew up with I-44 next to my house north of the fairgrounds and in no way have I ever felt the highway split those on the west side with those on the east side. I will agree that having no busy parallel roadways and frequent crossings of the highway helps so perhaps those crossings (that occur every 3-4 blocks near the CBD) could be redesigned and/or widened with ample pedestrian and bicycle lanes. The huge amounts of money needed to "cap" I-235 the way it was designed, would be far better spent speeding up reconstruction of other highway interchanges around town or replacing other areas of our city infrastructure. If money is to be spent on aesthetics, I'd rather see it go to burying power lines.

[adaniel]

I know it won't be popular with some of you on this page, but I disagree with the notion of a highway splitting neighborhoods. I grew up with I-44 next to my house north of the fairgrounds and in no way have I ever felt the highway split those on the west side with those on the east side.

With all due respect, your experience as a child is completely different than most because I 44 was largely built within the Grand Blvd ROW. Little if any homes were taken for this. Whereas 235 literally blasted through the middle of a neighborhood along no existing "grain" of development.

[HOT ROD]

With all due respect, your experience as a child is completely different than most because I 44 was largely built within the Grand Blvd ROW. Little if any homes were taken for this. Whereas 235 literally blasted through the middle of a neighborhood along no existing "grain" of development.

I think one can probably make that same argument for I-35 in the Eastside of NE OKC and also I-44 in the Eastside section though it was less developed here. Perhaps I-35 in the Southside too?

[Prunepicker]

I think one can probably make that same argument for I-35 in the Eastside of NE
OKC and also I-44 in the Eastside section though it was less developed here.
Perhaps I-35 in the Southside too?

When I-35 was built I don't remember it taking out very many houses. The
Moore area wasn't built up that much. I-40 was different.

[Laramie]

I-35 wiped out a lot of housing on the east side along with Black Hawk Amusement Park.

[Buffalo Bill]

I 44 was largely built within the Grand Blvd ROW. Little if any homes were taken for this.

Simply not true. Grand was a 2 lane path. The construction of 44 took maybe 16 houses per block.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/1969/196923portland.jpg

[mugofbeer]

In the section from 10th to 23rd, 44 took one house per block per side in most places. Its interesting to see my old house when I was a kid in that photo

[ljbab728]

In the section from 10th to 23rd, 44 took one house per block per side in most places. Its interesting to see my old house when I was a kid in that photo

I know the same thing happened just north of SW 29th Street. My aunt and uncle owned a house on the East side of Grand which was taken.

[Prunepicker]

Can we get back to connecting downtown to the Health Sciences Center?

What's the most important factor in connecting the two?

[Spartan]

urban fabric.

[Prunepicker]

urban fabric.

Unless you mean the fabric of the urban area what do you mean?

[Prunepicker]

I've always thought that NW 13 WAS the connection to the Health Sciences Center.

Is there a part of the city that doesn't have a direct line to the HSC? Seriously.

I honestly don't see any problem with getting to the Health Sciences Center from
any part of OKC. That includes SE, SW, NE and NW OKC.

Just what is the problem?

[Spartan]

Urban fabric relates to the built environment, which in this case is broken up by 235. While other states have found innovative ways to mitigate and bridge these urban expressways, Oklahoma has not, which could be an impactful thing to improve. Downtown is expanding, and the Health Sciences area would be a valuable connection, which means more than just an auto bridge, it needs to have buildings, sidewalks, and activity all the way across. This is the idea that healthy neighborhoods should be connected to other healthy neighborhoods, which the Health Sciences area is not.

[Prunepicker]

Urban fabric relates to the built environment, which in this case is broken up by
235. While other states have found innovative ways to mitigate and bridge these
urban expressways, Oklahoma has not, which could be an impactful thing to
improve.

Are you saying that it's hard to connect to the Health Sciences Center? I
believe it's the easiest place in OKC to get to.

Downtown is expanding, and the Health Sciences area would be a valuable
connection, which means more than just an auto bridge, it needs to have buildings,
sidewalks, and activity all the way across. This is the idea that healthy neighborhoods
should be connected to other healthy neighborhoods, which the Health Sciences
area is not.

Except for it being the most easily accesible place in OKC what do you believe
makes it not so easy?

Seriously.

Day or night, the HSC is the easiest place in OKC to get to.

[hoya]

Easy to drive there. Not so easy to walk there. Oh sure, there are like, roads and things. But studies have shown that big undeveloped areas and parking lots are impediments to walking. People are always thinking "it sure would be easy for a rapist or a serial killer to be hiding out here in the bushes". And then they don't walk there anymore.

That's why you need an environment that makes people feel comfortable about walking. You need buildings, you need stores, you need a place where walking is convenient. Bricktown has that. The area between downtown and the HSC doesn't. It feels rapey.

[Prunepicker]

Easy to drive there. Not so easy to walk there.

True. OKC is a huge city. Most people don't realize that Chicago, NYC and
San Francisco can all fit inside of OKC and leave room for another major city.

Oh sure, there are like, roads and things. But studies have shown that big
undeveloped areas and parking lots are impediments to walking. People are
always thinking "it sure would be easy for a rapist or a serial killer to be hiding
out here in the bushes". And then they don't walk there anymore.

Which would make OKC like the major cities everyone wants it to be.

That's why you need an environment that makes people feel comfortable about
walking.

Which OKC does.

You need buildings, you need stores, you need a place where walking is convenient. Bricktown has that. The area between downtown and the HSC doesn't. It feels rapey.

Thank you for telling us that OKC is better than most metropolitan areas.

As soon as these folk realize the superiority of OKC, i.e. pull their heads out
of the sand... Wait. Those people don't count.

Never mind.

[hoya]

True. OKC is a huge city. Most people don't realize that Chicago, NYC and
San Francisco can all fit inside of OKC and leave room for another major city.

Which would make OKC like the major cities everyone wants it to be.

Which OKC does.

Thank you for telling us that OKC is better than most metropolitan areas.

As soon as these folk realize the superiority of OKC, i.e. pull their heads out
of the sand... Wait. Those people don't count.

Never mind.

You went off on an enormous tangent there. The point of the thread is to make it feel safe and convenient to walk from Deep Deuce to the HSC, because right now it doesn't feel safe or convenient.

[AP]

Don't feed the troll. There is no need to argue with someone who you know will never change their mind.

[Prunepicker]

You went off on an enormous tangent there. The point of the thread is to make it
feel safe and convenient to walk from Deep Deuce to the HSC, because right now it
doesn't feel safe or convenient.

Perhaps.

What exactly is the reason people don't feel safe?