Able Commission: No New Bars in Bricktown??

[betts]

Because the Baptists don't want anyone drinking, anywhere, and it was easy to convince lawmakers that alchohol shouldn't be near schools. I didn't grow up here. I grew up in the land of Germans and Scandinavians, Lutherans and Catholics. My parents gave me a little glass of beer when they were having one when I was below the age of 5 (I know I was that young, because I remember the house and we moved when I was 5). We were allowed to have a single glass of wine with our nicer dinners when we were in high school. My parents are infrequent drinkers, I rarely drink, and my brother and sister rarely drink as well. There were no restrictive liquor laws like there are here, and, to be honest with you, we didn't have anywhere near the high school age drinking that I saw in my kids' schools here.

As usual, vice laws rarely affect behavior. If restraint is not taught in the home or you have a genetic propensity for drug problems, you're more likely to have them.

[Architect2010]

I agree Betts. This law definitely does not protect children on the basis that they may be "exposed" or whatever that really means. If they're in a school, they're not going to be first-row seats to some drunk just walking aimlessly through their halls. What's even funnier is that ACM@UCO is a UNIVERSITY. I also have a hard time believing that this law is applied to keep University or High School from being "exposed", seeing as a lot of them are old enough, or have risked exposure themselves. Ha.

[dankrutka]

Have morality laws ever worked? Prohibition led to speakeasies and an increase in the power of organized crime. The 21 year old drinking limit has led to a culture of binge drinking at unsupervised high school and college parties across the nation. There are many more examples.

The irony of it all is that these laws, at least in Oklahoma, that try to legislate people's morals are primarily pushed by the same people that praise small government... Hopefully the legislature will meet enough pressure to repeal these laws soon before it does harm to Bricktown

[Larry OKC]

It's a safety issue and a means of keeping underaged children from the exposure. If it was a "Baptist thing" as you state, why doesn't the law only apply to Churches.

First of all, I didn't say it was a "Baptist thing". Patrick said that, in response to his post, I was simply saying I could see where they are coming from on it.

I can go along with the safety thing for the younger school aged kids, but adults and others attending college? How would the safety thing apply to Churches (which are also included in the proximity ban).

Whatever reason (morality or safety), how is it more "Moral" or "Safe" if the establishment is pre-existing? If it is wrong it is wrong. If it is unsafe, it is unsafe.

[dankrutka]

It's not wrong or unsafe. Don't let kids into bars (easily done) and don't let drunks near kids (how many drunks really wander towards schools? they don't want to get arrested for being drunk). Both of these are easily accomplished without the government getting involved.

[Larry OKC]

Kilgore: I am not disagreeing with you, just asking what was the rationale behind the proximity rule in the first place? How does the 50% of sales come into play with that rationale?? Does it only apply to places where kids congregate (like schools and churches)? Does it apply to public parks, playgrounds, water/theme parks, zoos, museums, McDonald's, Chucky Cheese, etc? For whatever reason it exists, how does that jive with a preexisting business being exempt as opposed to a new business?? That's the part I don't understand and by Councilman Kelly's question, seemed to be his confusion as well.

[RodH]

Kilgore: I am not disagreeing with you, just asking what was the rationale behind the proximity rule in the first place? How does the 50% of sales come into play with that rationale?? Does it only apply to places where kids congregate (like schools and churches)? Does it apply to public parks, playgrounds, water/theme parks, zoos, museums, McDonald's, Chucky Cheese, etc? For whatever reason it exists, how does that jive with a preexisting business being exempt as opposed to a new business?? That's the part I don't understand and by Councilman Kelly's question, seemed to be his confusion as well.

Preexisting just means that the bar was there first and was within the legal requirements. It would not be fair for a business to have to worry about being thrown out of compliance by a school moving into its space and forcing it to move.

[ljbab728]

Preexisting just means that the bar was there first and was within the legal requirements. It would not be fair for a business to have to worry about being thrown out of compliance by a school moving into its space and forcing it to move.

I think Larry understands that rationale. He is just questioning the reality of the safety issue. If a school is unsafe because a bar moves into it's proximity it should also be unsafe if it moves into the proximity of a bar. Whether the bar came before or after should not make any difference in safety if that is the main concern.

[Larry OKC]

In previous articles on the subject, it was suggested that the proximity law wasn't being enforced so far because the space for the school is leased. Seems the way around it (until it can be addressed by the legislature) would be for the school to continue leasing. But that seems to be a moot point now since the school closed on the property, the the proximity rule kicks in. This new article by Steve: http://newsok.com/acmuco-closes-on-p...adlines_widget

[Steve]

My sources at 23rd and Lincoln tell me this will be legislatively fixed pretty quickly during the next session.

[Urbanized]

Say, any chance the booze/ACM/children/Baptist/legislature/ABLE discussion could be moved to the "ABLE Commission: No New Bars In Bricktown??" thread? Especially since this thread's namesake bar got its license and the discussion is at this point mostly irrelevant to the bar in question?

I'm sure some other poor soul will attempt to license a bar in Bricktown prior to the discussed legislative change and become the unwitting poster child for this issue.

[Steve]

No change in threads unless Capt. Norm drinks some booze with a child of a Baptist legislator in front of ACM@UCO. And get photos.

[BDP]

My sources at 23rd and Lincoln tell me this will be legislatively fixed pretty quickly during the next session.

Good to hear. Do you know how they're going to do it? Exempt universities, carve out districts, change distance, etc.?

[Larry OKC]

Steve: Good one! LOL

[amaesquire]

No change in threads unless Capt. Norm drinks some booze with a child of a Baptist legislator in front of ACM@UCO. And get photos.

Well played, Steve.

[Just the facts]

No change in threads unless Capt. Norm drinks some booze with a child of a Baptist legislator in front of ACM@UCO. And get photos.

What about a Baptist legislator that has drinks with a shirtless Capt Norm, and someone gets pictures?



Just a little Trailer Park Boys humor.

[Downtowner405]

No change in threads unless Capt. Norm drinks some booze with a child of a Baptist legislator in front of ACM@UCO. And get photos.

Hey! As long as that kid is 21, who cares?

[OklahomaNick]

It appears that the Legislature is trying to make something happen quick which is GOOD for Bricktown.
I wonder which bars have "tried" to open but were rejected due to this law?

Bricktown bar bill goes to state Senate
Heidi Rambo Centrella
OKC Biz

Oklahoma's liquor laws soon may be tweaked. The Greater Oklahoma City Chamber, with the support of University of Central Oklahoma, the city of Oklahoma City, Downtown OKC Inc. and Bricktown Association, hopes new legislation will quickly receive the governor's blessing.

When the ACM@UCO music institution opened in Bricktown, the state law that restricts the Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Commission from issuing mixed-beverage licenses to bars situated within 300 feet of a school reared its head.

“I know that the last thing UCO wanted to do was cause a problem for business in Bricktown,” said Mark VanLandingham, vice president of government relations and policy at the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber. “There were tenants ready to move into Bricktown and put new bars in, and the ABLE Commission said, 'We're sorry, but under the current law, we're unable to do that.'”

Authored by Sen. David Holt, R-Oklahoma City, Senate Bill 1218 would allow a college or university in a business improvement district, such as Bricktown, to waive that restriction.

“It amends the state law very, very narrowly,” VanLandingham said.

The bill would not amend the state law as it pertains to churches or elementary, middle, junior high and high schools.

The Senate committee for business and commerce passed the committee substitute for SB 1218 on Feb. 16 by a vote of 7-0; its next stop is the full Senate.

“The Legislature hardly ever passes anything unanimously, and there will be, without a doubt, some people who will make the argument that this is allowing more access to liquor,” VanLandingham said. “But we think we can show that this is so narrow, and the continued development of Bricktown ought to be what's most important to everybody.”

Oklahoma City has seven business improvement districts: Arts District, Automobile Alley, Bricktown, Central Business District, Deep Deuce, Film District and Park Plaza.

[BoulderSooner]

good to hear

[CurtisJ]

It appears that the Legislature is trying to make something happen quick which is GOOD for Bricktown.

And by quick we mean four monthes after it became an issue in the first place? I realize that this is quick for government, but if I sat on something this big for four monthes at work I would be fired.

I'm glad they are finally fixing this problem, but I would much rather see them permanently fix our backwards liquor laws than this peice of legislation, which amounts to a one time exception. I have already seen a bible thumping baptist church (and I'm not anti-religious, just anti-"impose my beliefs on everyone else") move into the middle of the strip in Stillwater to try and restrict new bars from coming in there, and its not good for anyone. It won't reduce drinking in stillwater, it will just de-centralize it, which makes it harder on police, harder on the drunks and harder on the other sober citizens.

[BoulderSooner]

And by quick we mean four monthes after it became an issue in the first place? I realize that this is quick for government, but if I sat on something this big for four monthes at work I would be fired.

I'm glad they are finally fixing this problem, but I would much rather see them permanently fix our backwards liquor laws than this peice of legislation, which amounts to a one time exception. I have already seen a bible thumping baptist church (and I'm not anti-religious, just anti-"impose my beliefs on everyone else") move into the middle of the strip in Stillwater to try and restrict new bars from coming in there, and its not good for anyone. It won't reduce drinking in stillwater, it will just de-centralize it, which makes it harder on police, harder on the drunks and harder on the other sober citizens.

did you want the legislature to do something when they were not in session??

[OklahomaNick]

I'm glad they are finally fixing this problem, but I would much rather see them permanently fix our backwards liquor laws than this peice of legislation, which amounts to a one time exception.

I agree. However that requires SEVERAL amendments to our state constitution; thus possibly requiring a series of state questions that ALL would need to pass. Its a very difficult process..

This in particular law is "somewhat" easier to override..

[CurtisJ]

did you want the legislature to do something when they were not in session??

I would have rather it not be an issue in the first place.

[OklahomaNick]

From the Chamber's Weekly Legislative Report E-mail: (March 9th, 2012)

Bricktown Legislation Passed by Senate
Legislation to allow a college or university in a Business Improvement District to waive the state's 300-foot rule (which prohibits mixed beverage bars within 300 feet of a church or school) was passed Wednesday by the Senate 43-0. Sen. Holt authored the bill and was a strong advocate on the Senate floor. The legislation relates to the University of Central Oklahoma locating its Academy of Contemporary Music in Bricktown, one of Oklahoma City's seven downtown Business Improvement Districts. The legislation would permit a college or university to waive the requirement if it chooses to do so. The legislation would not impact state law that prohibits bars within 300 feet of churches, elementary, junior high, middle or high schools. The bill will now move to the House of Representatives.

Good news! Get this passed QUICK!

[OKCisOK4me]

Definitely good news. Hopefully it doesn't fly backward in the HofR