Proposed nonprofit to spearhead economic development in OKC

[Larry OKC]

Did Ryan recuse himself? Noticed he wasn't there for the final vote and he isn't mentioned in the clips above.

It is exasperating that Council members that spoke out against this (even right up until they took the vote) would end up voting for it!

Was once again very impressed with Shadid, my Councilman. Extremely disappointed with many of he Council on this but especially White & Kelly.

[Doug Loudenback]

Ryan was not present during much of the discussion nor the votes -- he had something else to attend to. So, no, he did not recuse himself.

I think that Pete White fully expressed reasons why he would vote for the measure, as amended, so I don't fault him in his vote. I thought that McAtee played a coy little word game with manager Couch -- but the numbers that he asked for 2 weeks ago were never presented. So, perhaps, he was a lackey. Greenwall was milky-toast, this meeting and the last. Skip Kelly essentially got what he wanted but nonetheless tried to gain more time before the matter was presented for a vote, and I thought that it was good of him to do that.

[Larry OKC]

doug i think you make some very good points but i would like to point out a few things

A the boards job is to oversea that Alliance period ..

Read more: http://newsok.com/new-nonprofit-is-e...#ixzz1KiE3Tvjc

With creation of The Alliance, O'Connor would step down as assistant city manager. She said Thursday the operation would consist of herself and maybe an assistant or secretary.

So, according to Ms. O'Conner, the "staff" of the Alliance will consist of herself, an assistant and a secretary. That's a lot of heavy hitter people involved if their only function is to oversee 3 people. Also, doesn't this seem to be a lot of money for a 3 person operation?

....... and as for the possible savings i will be very interested to see what they are if any.

Agree, it will be interesting to see since I don't recall any answers on that point at Council. When Ms. O'Connor leaves her post as Asst. City Manager, are they going to leave that post vacant or are they going to hire a replacement?

one last thing on the issue of policy .... as has been said the Alliance is serving a "staff" function and as so doesn't have policy making decisions ... now will they influence policy .... of course but i would say not any more than the city staff/manager/heavy hitters do today.

This was alluded to in Council that because a couple of the trusts are losing people, those people are going to be replaced and according to the newspapers, the Alliance is going to be the replacement. Have to remember that Ms. O'Connor will be the Director of at least one of the Trusts that they are "serving". As the head of the Alliance and the trust, she/it WILL be determining policy.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-coun...#ixzz1KiDP2q9E

O’Connor, who indicated in an interview last week that there would be no change in leadership or staffing at the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority, also told the council Tuesday that the proposal calls for her to take over as the agency’s director.

and

Current Assistant City Manager Cathy O'Connor has been named to lead a new nonprofit, The Alliance for Economic Development, that is hoping to oversee the implementation of economic developments deals involving public funding.
The group proposes O'Connor taking over Urban Renewal as part of the restructuring -- a contract that the agency's board on Wednesday agreed to consider.

[Larry OKC]

Ryan was not present during much of the discussion nor the votes -- he had something else to attend to. So, no, he did not recuse himself.

I think that Pete White fully expressed reasons why he would vote for the measure, as amended, so I don't fault him in his vote. I thought that McAtee played a coy little word game with manager Couch -- but the numbers that he asked for 2 weeks ago were never presented. So, perhaps, he was a lackey. Greenwall was milky-toast, this meeting and the last. Skip Kelly essentially got what he wanted but nonetheless tried to gain more time before the matter was presented for a vote, and I thought that it was good of him to do that.

Doug, thanks again for your thoughts. The reason I asked about Ryan is as a member of the Alliance board, while he can certainly be part of the Council discussion, when it comes time for it to come to a vote for the funding of it, it looks like a direct conflict of interest and as such he should have recused himself. Same with Salyer before she removed herself from the Alliance. Even though the City's legal council stated in an earlier article there was no conflict, both became moot points (by Ryan's absence and Salyer's self-removal).

I agree completely with your other observations about McAtee & Greenwell. But not about White, he was against much more than what was addressed with the amendments. Other than the diversity issue, I don't see that Kelly's concerns were addressed either.

Also was put off by the City Manager's little rant about how inconvenient open records laws. As others have pointed out much better than I, this non-City entity is just a way to circumnavigate the intent and purpose of those laws. The retail "slippage" that has happened to Edmond and Moore was brought up more than once. Yet I didn't hear any mention of Edmond or Moore going out of their way to create one of these entities. Seems they are able to provide incentives and lure the businesses without something like this. How will the Alliance help solve any of that?

[BoulderSooner]

Read more: http://newsok.com/new-nonprofit-is-e...#ixzz1KiE3Tvjc

So, according to Ms. O'Conner, the "staff" of the Alliance will consist of herself, an assistant and a secretary. That's a lot of heavy hitter people involved if their only function is to oversee 3 people. Also, doesn't this seem to be a lot of money for a 3 person operation?



Agree, it will be interesting to see since I don't recall any answers on that point at Council. When Ms. O'Connor leaves her post as Asst. City Manager, are they going to leave that post vacant or are they going to hire a replacement?




This was alluded to in Council that because a couple of the trusts are losing people, those people are going to be replaced and according to the newspapers, the Alliance is going to be the replacement. Have to remember that Ms. O'Connor will be the Director of at least one of the Trusts that they are "serving". As the head of the Alliance and the trust, she/it WILL be determining policy.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-coun...#ixzz1KiDP2q9E


and

a couple of things .. the Alliance will be able to use city staff when they "ramp up" their efforts.


Cathy O'connor will take over as director of OCURA and whatever else ... remember the director of a trust doesn't set or make policy the trust board does

just like jim couch doesn't set policy he enacts the policys of the city council

[Midtowner]

We'll just have to see how it works out. While in reality, yes, those Boards will have to vote in order to enact policy, it remains to be seen whether these Boards will offer meaningful input in the process, or simply be rubber-stamp committees.

[Doug Loudenback]

*** Also was put off by the City Manager's little rant about how inconvenient open records laws. As others have pointed out much better than I, this non-City entity is just a way to circumnavigate the intent and purpose of those laws. The retail "slippage" that has happened to Edmond and Moore was brought up more than once. Yet I didn't hear any mention of Edmond or Moore going out of their way to create one of these entities. Seems they are able to provide incentives and lure the businesses without something like this. How will the Alliance help solve any of that?

Actually, I thought that Couch made a pretty good case for what he was saying.

[BOBTHEBUILDER]

a couple of things .. the Alliance will be able to use city staff when they "ramp up" their efforts.


Cathy O'connor will take over as director of OCURA and whatever else ... remember the director of a trust doesn't set or make policy the trust board does

just like jim couch doesn't set policy he enacts the policys of the city council

Really? Jim Couch does whatever he pleases. Most of the council isnt intelligent enough to ask the questions that need to be asked. Councilman Shadid asked some questions and it was evident that he was prepared by actually reading the documents that applied to this council agenda, not just looking to Jim Couch for a brief inaccurate summary of the documents and voting on them. Most of the council are just puppets for Couch. So exactly how is it Couch is not setting policy, because the way I and many others see it, he is setting policy when many of the council look for his lead on a vote. I for one am in complete agreement with the speaker from ward 8 that got up in front of the council and got her two sense in. We are tired of the elite few running puppet strings on the Mayor and the City Manager to get whatever they want on our taxpayer dime.

[BOBTHEBUILDER]

Actually, I thought that Couch made a pretty good case for what he was saying.

Moore and Edmond have been busting their humps to get the abundance of retail in their cities. Moore and Edmond didnt need to go out of their way to create an Alliance, because they are doing what is needed to lure businesses to their respective cities without the Alliance. The Alliance will do no more to solve these things than the city is doing already. This Alliance is just another way that the OKC elite are going to ramrod their interest down the citizens throat in secrecy with no open records. Lets have some more conflicts of interest and backdoor dealings under the table. The Elite are banking on the citizens not knowing any better, because the taxpaying citizens arent smart enough to figure out the game, right...

[BoulderSooner]

Did Ryan recuse himself? Noticed he wasn't there for the final vote and he isn't mentioned in the clips above.

It is exasperating that Council members that spoke out against this (even right up until they took the vote) would end up voting for it!

Was once again very impressed with Shadid, my Councilman. Extremely disappointed with many of he Council on this but especially White & Kelly.

Councilmen Ryan had to leave to be at the ground breaking of the new Boeing building

http://newsok.com/dignitaries-cheer-...ad_story_title

[Larry OKC]

Actually, I thought that Couch made a pretty good case for what he was saying.

Doug, you are confusing me...are you saying non-disclosure is a good thing? That is what Couch was advocating. Lets keep as much of this stuff hidden and not subject to open records request as possible. As Midtowner pointed out that the Alliance is set up to avoid all of those inconvenient transparency/open meeting/open record laws. I thought you were in agreement???

[Midtowner]

I believe that *most* of the folks in the Chamber and who are part of the Alliance structure will tend to be benevolent dictators. The ones I know personally really do want to do what is in the city's best interests, and they have. That Boeing relocation was a serious coup, so was Continental Resources. I expect that the Alliance, at least in the short term, will be a vehicle for positive change.

The trouble is, as we saw in the last election, there seems to be the perception (which may be reality) that control of this city's government is for sale. With 400K spent to keep Dr. Shadid off of the horseshoe, someone really, really thought that last voice and vote on the shoe was worth a lot. If the reality is that this city's government is for sale, then it can be used to purchase control of this apparatus or another one like it. And if the wrong people do that, hold on to your wallets.

[Doug Loudenback]

Doug, you are confusing me...are you saying non-disclosure is a good thing? That is what Couch was advocating. Lets keep as much of this stuff hidden and not subject to open records request as possible. As Midtowner pointed out that the Alliance is set up to avoid all of those inconvenient transparency/open meeting/open record laws. I thought you were in agreement???

Couch's point was, I think, that exploratory forays by a business which might be considering relocation (or other venture) here, and/or proprietary and/or financial detail about that business's operations or records, and negotiations to work out a possible deal for relocation or a new development from within the city, needs to be kept under wraps unless and until a deal is worked out to present to the city council for consideration, approval and/or further negotiation, since, otherwise, such forays and preliminary negotiations would be chilled with the city being the loser. If that's not he meant by his comments, that's what I mean to say.

Consider the following delightfully and ridiculously impossible scenario:

. Let's pretend that you are the CEO of the Oklahoma City Alliance and I am a potential investor who is considering some major development in downtown Oklahoma City ... lets call it the Doug Loudenback SuperMega Galleria Mall and Hotel Plaza and Office & Residential Park ... just because this is my home and I'd like to leave a legacy beneficial to the city that I love and because I have just a touch of vanity in me and I want my great great grandchildren to know who I am, or was. I mean, we're talking putting Trump Plaza and all of his ego-centered stuff to shame. Wipe off that stupid Obama-birther-embarrassed pouty smile on his face and see Doug Dawgz very big ear-to-ear mega-grin! I mean, this is so much bigger than Trump that it's impossible to describe.
. How is this possible? My financial circumstances have just changed from living off of a modest retirement income ... somehow (please take a huge, gargantuan, leap of faith here) I have, at this late time in life, just discovered the location of a Spanish treasure ship, outside any country's territorial waters, and my divers have absolutely and positively confirmed that the treasure hoard is worth $5 billion, conservatively. The treasure is not yet retrieved, though, and I've told no one about my impending good fortune, outside my immediate family. My workers are all sworn to secrecy, and I don't want anyone to know about it that I don't chose to know about it. I absolutely DO NOT WANT ANYONE knowing the precise location of my discovery which is at a very particular latitude and longitude within the Bermuda Triangle.

Gulp! I wish! Anyway, I'm titillated, eager, and anxious about getting something that I have in mind done before I croak, and I call you, Larry. The 1st part of the conversation goes like this:

I dial the phone number I got from the internet ... Loudenback calling LarryOKC ... ring ... ring ... ring ...

. Recording: Good morning, you have reached the office of LarryOKC, chief executive officer of the Oklahoma City Alliance. We are here to help. Please press a number which indicates your reason for calling. Press 1 if you want to make a huge investment in Oklahoma City and this is your first contact with the Alliance. Press 2 if you have previously initiated contact with the Alliance and wish to discuss your possible investment here. Press 3 if you are a member of the Committee for Oklahoma City Momentum. Press 4 for all other calls. For your protection, this conversation may be recorded. (Unspoken insider tip: calls from #3 are not recorded.)
. I press 1. You, being the adroit Alliance CEO that you are, are on-call for anyone who calls and presses 1 (or 3). The call is routed to your super-sultry-voiced assistant who handles all priority 1 or 3 calls from heterosexual males (the phone sensing device is almost always reliable in determining a caller's gender and sexual orientation) ... (your other assistants are particularly equipped to handle divers calls from other groups of callers, very high tech and discerning) ...
. Assistant: Good morning! Oh! It's becoming such a hot day today! I see that you are calling LarryOkc. He is in and has been waiting for your call ... who may I say is calling?
. (Thinking to myself ... Huh? Hot day? Waiting for my call? Oh, well, at least the operation is efficient ...)
. Loudenback: I'd rather keep that information between me and LarryOkc, if that's OK.
. Assistant: Surely, Mr. Anon. Not a problem. Please wait while I connect you ...
. LarryOkc: Good morning, Mr.Anon. How can I help you?
. Loudenback: Hi, Larry. I've been a big fan of Oklahoma City for all my life, but I've never had money to invest in downtown before right now and I'm ready to make a huge investment, something that will knock your socks off. That's why I'm calling. But, before I go any further, I have a couple of questions.
. LarryOkc: Sure, go right ahead.
. Loudenback: First, I need to know if is this conversation being recorded. Is it?
. LarryOkc: Yes. We do that to make sure we get everything exactly right.
. Loudenback: Well, then, my second question is, is the recording of this conversation subject to the Oklahoma Open Records Act?

End of first part of conversation.

Do you ever get my name (or other information)? Do I really need to continue to develop this delightful fantasy any further, depending on the outcome of your answer to the Open Records Act question, to see the divergent paths for the second part of the conversation (even though I admit that the fantasy has been kind of fun)? A "yes" answer will obviously end the conversation. A "no" answer may very well lead to the, ahem, Doug Loudenback SuperMega Galleria Mall and Hotel Plaza and Office & Residential Park, which includes, by the way, an exact (except for modernization features) replica of the Baum Building and a few other lost treasures. With $5 billion or more at my disposal (once secured), cost is not important.

Another, and more mundane and realistic even if not as on-point, analogy has to do with settlement discussions during the course of litigation. Generally (but not absolutely), evidence offers of settlement are not admissible as evidence during a trial to prove something. The reason is that the law favors settlements and, were such evidence admissible, it would have a chilling effect upon such discussions ever occurring in the first place.

So, please, Larry, when I call you in your capacity as CEO of the Alliance and I have my fantasy Spanish galleon discovery within my grasp and you answer the question about the Open Records Act, please say, "No, not unless a firm proposal is worked out to present to the city council. At that point, full disclosure would be required."

[Doug Loudenback]

I believe that *most* of the folks in the Chamber and who are part of the Alliance structure will tend to be benevolent dictators. The ones I know personally really do want to do what is in the city's best interests, and they have. That Boeing relocation was a serious coup, so was Continental Resources. I expect that the Alliance, at least in the short term, will be a vehicle for positive change.

The trouble is, as we saw in the last election, there seems to be the perception (which may be reality) that control of this city's government is for sale. With 400K spent to keep Dr. Shadid off of the horseshoe, someone really, really thought that last voice and vote on the shoe was worth a lot. If the reality is that this city's government is for sale, then it can be used to purchase control of this apparatus or another one like it. And if the wrong people do that, hold on to your wallets.

Mid, as I understand it, $400 K+ was spent by Momentum for all 4 ward elections, not just in Ward 2 (we should have a final report on total expenditures in mid-May, I think, but they won't be broken down by wards). But, probably more than 1/4 of the $400+ K was spent in Ward 2, I would imagine.

[Midtowner]

Mid, as I understand it, $400 K + was spent by Momentum all around, not just in Ward 2 (we should have a final report mid-May, I think). Probably more than 1/4 was spent in Ward 2, I would imagine.

Fine, but does that detract from the point that at least it appears that some believe that control of our city's governmental apparatus is for sale?

[Doug Loudenback]

Fine, but does that detract from the point that at least it appears that some believe that control of our city's governmental apparatus is for sale?

No, not if the sale is successful. I'm hoping that with Shadid's election the public and citizens like you and me will be better prepared next time that an organization like Momentum presents itself. I know that I was caught off guard until the runoff in Ward 2. I doubt that such unpreparedness will happen again. Frankly, the post-election comments about Momentum have been so harsh that I'm hopeful that we'll not see a super-pac in municipal elections again, or at least not in the near future.

[Midtowner]

Ward 2 is demographically unique. Momentum's tactics were pretty ill-considered, and the runoff probably caught them off guard. This is one example of how Okie political consultants aren't worth what you pay for 'em. They think a one-size-fits-all election strategy works in Oklahoma. They focus on federal issues (rather than local ones), run on buzzwords like "Conservative," and try to tie the opposition to those dreaded liberals.

Such strategies tend to fail in places such as Ward 2, which are by and large not very politically conservative. The convenient thing for a group like Momentum is that they are pretty apolitical. They just want their guy to win. If their folks are worth anything, next time, they'll have a winning campaign strategy set up for Ward 2, and they'll pull it out.

I think you highly overestimate how much a group like Momentum cares about the post-election comments of us plebs.

[Doug Loudenback]

I think you highly overestimate how much a group like Momentum cares about the post-election comments of us plebs.

If by "you" you mean "me," and assuming that the Momentum folk are not idiots, yes, I think that they do or at least should care. As an unnamed entity, Momentum has now been lambasted by outgoing council member Bowman and by sitting council members White, Kelly, and Shadid. White and Kelly will face election, if they run again, 2 years from now. I seriously doubt that we'll see a super-pac in the next round of elections, simply because the big money guys are not stupid and are or should be well aware of the negative feelings that many, if not most, now have concerning the unnamed contributor approach. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but we'll know in less than 2 years about that.

You're mistaken about a one-size-fits-all Momentum approach in the last election. In Ward 5, Walters was characterized as not conservative enough. In Ward 6, Salyer was characterized as embracing conservative and liberals and being progressive as a plus; in Ward 2, Shadid was characterized as too liberal. I never saw any Ward 8 campaign mailers, so I can't speak to that.

Regardless, can you begin to imagine the outcry, from the get-go, should Momentum rear its head in 2013?

[Spartan]

Yeah, I really don't think that Momentum or "the powers that be" care what us plebes have to say about their doings, or at least not until there is a city council that is going to hold them responsible for what they do to our city with our resources and so on. BUT I really like the amendment a lot, like Pete White said, and even if it is "the powers that be" with a bunch of random southsiders and Jim Tolbert added, but still dominated by "the powers that be," I am ok with that.

Let's face it. "The powers that be" have been good for OKC, and I'm ok with that. I'm not interested in telling Larry Nichols that he's wrong just because he's big and rich and I'm not. I'm not characterizing the anti-Alliance argument as that, but I'm just saying that I am somewhat ok with the argument of, "Well, Larry Nichols says it's ok, so it must be ok." Obviously it's important that we have access to the knowledge we need to still think for ourselves.

BUT it's absolutely clear that these men are not interested in using OKC funds to pad their personal pockets, or to benefit their company, or to expand Devon's capital, or anything like that. Yes, they might occasionally look out for another fellow oil tycoon, and yes anything that comes from Tom Ward probably needs to be opposed till the end at this point, but I am ok with putting a lot of things in these guys' hands.

I know that this might be a view that surprises a lot of people, coming from me. However, I'm always interested in economic development just as much as I am interested in progressive things, and I do personally view economic development as a progressive issue although most "true progressives" seem to oppose a lot of economic development things, so perhaps this is where my personal views range the gamut.

I do have one caveat though. It appears that this group will be taking over the functions of OCURA, which as an organization, could perhaps see the end very soon. It seems to already have taken over many of OCURA's functions, just in terms of Larry Nichols coming back to OCURA, and him and Kathy O'Connor being among the civic leaders deciding the fate of the Mercy site. Obviously in the context of that, they seem to be phasing OCURA into this Alliance, and evidently JoeVan either just saw the writing on the wall or he was asked by them to resign. So if this group is going to take over OCURA... that is where we could run into some problems.

I am concerned that we are going to long for the days of the transparency that OCURA provided us with, and I mean that in a very droll sense. Of course OCURA provided next to zero transparency. This could be a very big deal, especially if they're going to be involved in the chain of decision making about MAPS 3, Core2Shore, convention center, and other private development RFPs, and so on and so forth. These are things that have a profound impact on the inner city and should--no, MUST--be debated publicly. But again, other than that aspect, nothing else in this deal bothers me. Yet.

[Doug Loudenback]

I don't disagree with the notion that powerful people in the city have driven its course from the get-go or that that's necessarily a bad thing, per se. Start with Henry Overholser, add Anton Classen & John Shartel. Fast forward and you get Dean McGee and others. Forward again and you get Larry Nichols, Aubrey McClendon, maybe Clay Bennett, and transversing the whole historic spectrum/span is someone who owns or manages the Oklahoman.

That part is not the most disturbing. The part that is is a committee like Momentum which is wholly secret and never reveals itself and engages in campaigns which tell voters what they are called upon to individually decide in a democracy. Even worse is that such a committee would take different postures in different wards, depending on what committee members might think would be most effective to get their candidate elected. Effectively, we then have handful of people telling the rest of us how we should vote, without ever saying who they are, and, as we have seen, without scruple.

At that point, the rub on my face is like coarse sandpaper against facial flesh. Raw. Bleeding. Painful. Rubs me the wrong way, big time. If you're good with that, Nick, we disagree.

[Midtowner]

Nick, debate?

Give me your honest opinion here: Do you think the "debate" we've all heard from OCURA was really debate? Or is it just the minority expressing their issues with what has already been decided in private conversations?

[bornhere]

Regardless, can you begin to imagine the outcry, from the get-go, should Momentum rear its head in 2013?

It won't be called Momentum in 2013. It'll be "Forward OKC" or some such.

[bornhere]

Really? Jim Couch does whatever he pleases. Most of the council isn't intelligent enough to ask the questions that need to be asked.

Can you present some examples of that? Personally, I don't think it's true.

[Larry OKC]

Nick, debate?

Give me your honest opinion here: Do you think the "debate" we've all heard from OCURA was really debate? Or is it just the minority expressing their issues with what has already been decided in private conversations?

Golly Beav, thats what I was thinking about the last Council meeting. Members arguing against the Alliance and then turning around seconds/minutes later and then voting for it.

[Larry OKC]

Consider the following delightfully and ridiculously impossible scenario...

First, I would remind you that any discussions are subject to Oklahoma law. Those laws exist for a reason and will be observed. If there is any aspect of your business that you don't want to be made public knowledge, you don't put it out there. Any more than you would post that information for the world to see on your Facebook page or Twitter account.

If you are seeking any sort of public funding for your endeavor, fully expect the public to have full access to the information. If you want it to remain private, get your funding from a private investor. Have the option of going to a bank, but they have regulations they have to abide by as well. But then again, you are going to have $5 billion at your disposal soon and you won't need the public funding at all.

If that means delaying your project until you can reveal that information, then so be it. Once you have the $5 billion secured and are willing to go public, then we can talk. If it means that the deal won't happen, then again, so be it. You shouldn't be willing to circumvent the law just because it is more convenient to do so.

I would say one of the purposes behind the open records law isn't just so we can find out about stuff after the fact...when the decisions have been made and the contracts signed (after it is too late to do anything about it). Just as with the Alliance, this apparently has been in the works for months (in concept) to the various sitting members of the Council. It wasn't until the it was put to a vote of the Council (on 2 new members 1st Council meeting). It was only through the 2 week deferral that we/they learned what we did and got the changes that we got. Imagine how much better it could have been if it was deferred again or dropped completely at this point and brought back at a later date, "new & improved". Obviously, there wasn't a pressing need for this Alliance to exist IMMEDIATELY (if there was, we weren't presented with any evidence). If there are any cost savings as claimed, again, we weren't presented with any evidence of that. In the end, it appears that this is nothing but a deliberate move to circumvent the law and to consolidate some of the policy making functions of government entities into non-government hands. Benevolent or not.