18th Street Studios

[soonerguru]

You can't imagine it being a clash? This neighborhood was the roughest structurally west of broadway extension and north of tenth just 15 years ago. There are still vagrants walking through the area at night on Classen, imo a byproduct of downtown development forcing them out over the years. The difference between Portland and here is that they have a thriving creative class with good taste and land prices are high enough to justify sleek new development amongst older buildings. Like I said, I like the idea of urban infill but this project seems overambitious. Modesty and an eye toward detail in design are traits that stand the test of time. The idea of luxury housing in that neighborhood and the flamboyance of the drawing is kind of annoying but hopefully the project is a success and I eat my words.

Maybe you're not paying attention, but OKC also has a vibrant creative class, and it happens to be clustering in the neighborhood near the development. The Plaza District is artier and more bohemian than the Paseo these days, and Classen SAS is the most funky, arty, bohemian school in the entire county. The development is fine and will probably lead to improvements to the surrounding apartments. It's called gentrification and it happens everywhere, and now it's happening here. Why be such a buzzkill about this? The apartments will probably all lease prior to the thing being open.

[jungmuny]

If you read the whole thread you would see I went to Classen so you don't have to tell me what kind of school it is. I also know what gentrification is, I used the word in this thread previously. What you may not understand is that it is a grassroots process not a top-down process. A lot of times it is a slow process and attempts to short cut the stages end up leaving pock marks. My guess is there is a major cultural divide between the people developing downtown residential and the next stage of people who will be moving downtown, the young middle class. The low hanging fruit have already moved and if developers want to continue the momentum they will have to be more in touch with the taste of young professionals. I would feel self conscious living in a flashy apartment right next to a school in what I still consider a gritty neighborhood. But hopefully they get what they are asking.

[ljbab728]

I would feel self conscious living in a flashy apartment right next to a school in what I still consider a gritty neighborhood. But hopefully they get what they are asking.

I have no idea what you mean by saying you would be self conscious but this is not a flashy apartment building. It's a modest modern looking structure and it shouldn't overwhelm or overshadow anything in that area.

[jungmuny]

Very good. I'm sure they'll be grateful for your business.

[ljbab728]

Very good. I'm sure they'll be grateful for your business.

And I doubt they will miss yours.

[MDot]

LOL that is comical at best...

[Spartan]

I don't see how this project and all of Jeff Struble's residential rehabs, and all the synergy on NW 16th, doesn't resemble grassroots gentrification. It's not that I wouldn't agree that organic growth is always preferable.

[bluedogok]

I don't see how this project and all of Jeff Struble's residential rehabs, and all the synergy on NW 16th, doesn't resemble grassroots gentrification. It's not that I wouldn't agree that organic growth is always preferable.

I agree, it's not like a big Dallas developer is coming and trying to force it to transform into a new Knox/Henderson area by the mass clearing of lots to build a massive development.

[Spartan]

I agree, it's not like a big Dallas developer is coming and trying to force it to transform into a new Knox/Henderson area by the mass clearing of lots to build a massive development.

I'm sure much to everyone around here's chagrin.. (hell I almost wouldn't mind that with some neighborhoods like Classen-Ten-Penn, that pocket of Gatewood, etc).

[jungmuny]

Here are my issues with the project:
-It seems like it was made a high-end project simply because that was the only profitable way to build a small building, there is no economy of scale.
-To my knowledge most of the gentrification in that area is single family houses, which would make sense because apartments can still be had for $400-500 within blocks. My point is why rent just for the appliances?
-The other two issues I have that aren't directly related to the project. A lack of a large-scale, moderately priced project to allow people to test the downtown/midtown lifestyle without spending $1000/month. This current project is another example of this. The other is encroachment on my school's grounds by seemingly greedy developers, which I probably overreacted to.

And when I said I didn't want to live next to a school I was speaking as a single twentysomething to potential developers so hopefully this niche area can be filled.

I was just responding to a question someone asked me and wanted to get this off my chest and am done with this thread.

[Spartan]

Here are my issues with the project:
-It seems like it was made a high-end project simply because that was the only profitable way to build a small building, there is no economy of scale.
-To my knowledge most of the gentrification in that area is single family houses, which would make sense because apartments can still be had for $400-500 within blocks. My point is why rent just for the appliances?
-The other two issues I have that aren't directly related to the project. A lack of a large-scale, moderately priced project to allow people to test the downtown/midtown lifestyle without spending $1000/month. This current project is another example of this. The other is encroachment on my school's grounds by seemingly greedy developers, which I probably overreacted to.

And when I said I didn't want to live next to a school I was speaking as a single twentysomething to potential developers so hopefully this niche area can be filled.

I was just responding to a question someone asked me and wanted to get this off my chest and am done with this thread.

You might want to get the relationship between your school and this development checked out by a professional. In my opinion, and I'm sure for most others as well, the old Classen SAS is an attractive historic building (a plus) and this development is an attractive condo building (a plus). There will be architectural synergy between the two, and yet clearly there is still the same street and the same property lines dividing the plots, so I don't understand the "encroachment" problem.

[okyeah]

You might want to get the relationship between your school and this development checked out by a professional. In my opinion, and I'm sure for most others as well, the old Classen SAS is an attractive historic building (a plus) and this development is an attractive condo building (a plus). There will be architectural synergy between the two, and yet clearly there is still the same street and the same property lines dividing the plots, so I don't understand the "encroachment" problem.

I wouldn't want to live that close to the school because I'd have to deal with traffic associated with parents dropping their kids off in the morning and picking them up in the afternoon. Plus, there's not enough parking lot spaces for the students with cars, so they parallel park in the front of Classen SAS. Both Ellison street and 18th will be even more of a clusterf*** than they already are.

I also went to Classen SAS for middle and high school. Lots of gentrification going on, but I've never felt safe in the area.

[gracefor24]

I don't get the whole "don't feel safe" in that area. What's not safe about it? There's pockets of sketchiness but nowhere near south of 16th. I've never felt unsafe in the Plaza or Gatewood. Now, when my sister lived on 17th and Indiana back in about '95 it was a different story.

[Pete]

Safety is a state of mind.

For years I worked in what is considered one of the worst areas of Los Angeles (and that's saying something!) and never felt unsafe. I minded my own business, treated everyone I came across with great respect and never had even a small incident in seven years. And this included parking my relatively nice car in a pretty vulnerable place and walking to lunch virtually every day.


People who don't feel safe don't understand their surroundings. Very, very, very little violent crime is random... It's almost always between people who know each other and part of much bigger issues.

[dankrutka]

Safety is a state of mind.

For years I worked in what is considered one of the worst areas of Los Angeles (and that's saying something!) and never felt unsafe. I minded my own business, treated everyone I came across with great respect and never had even a small incident in seven years. And this included parking my relatively nice car in a pretty vulnerable place and walking to lunch virtually every day.


People who don't feel safe don't understand their surroundings. Very, very, very little violent crime is random... It's almost always between people who know each other and part of much bigger issues.

Bingo. I had some friends visit me when I lived in Midtown and one of them acted like we were going to get assulted... It was ridiculous. I used to run every night through the entire area and never encountered a single problem. Unfortunately, some people also think an area is dangerous if they see a single minority at night. I also got the same reactions from people when I recently took a Greyhound bus for a few hundred miles. What do people think is going to happen on a Greyhound?!? Some people are just way more comfortable in the white-flight suburbs, but it is mostly do to naivette (and stereotypes) more than reality...

[catch22]

Unfortunately people have misguided views about downtown. On New Year's me and my girlfriend went downtown to see the fireworks and ball drop
(rise?). Parking was tight all around so I parked by a building in Film Row....literally two blocks from the Myriad Gardens. She thought we were in the hood and we would get attacked, and demanded we try and find somewhere else to park...so we ended up driving around watching the fireworks....

Lame....

[Pete]

The great irony is that insulated people are the ones that often feel the least safe.

I have a good friend that lives behind the gates at Oak Tree, has a security system and big dogs and STILL keeps a gun for protection.


If more people actually got out and interacted with their community they'd realize there is very little to fear. Fear usually comes from ignorance.

[BDP]

People who don't feel safe don't understand their surroundings.

So true. If I were to base my comfort level totally on my anecdotal experiences of crime, I would be much more scared of the suburbs than the inner city for sure. But that would be just as irrational as me being afraid to be in a neighborhood just because of its median income level. In the end, probably the most dangerous thing I do is walk through a mall parking lot. ; )

[soonerguru]

Unfortunately people have misguided views about downtown. On New Year's me and my girlfriend went downtown to see the fireworks and ball drop
(rise?). Parking was tight all around so I parked by a building in Film Row....literally two blocks from the Myriad Gardens. She thought we were in the hood and we would get attacked, and demanded we try and find somewhere else to park...so we ended up driving around watching the fireworks....

How committed are you to this girl?

[catch22]

How committed are you to this girl?

That's really not any of your business, I was providing an example that the common mindset is that downtown is dangerous.

[dankrutka]

That's really not any of your business, I was providing an example that the common mindset is that downtown is dangerous.

I think he was kidding. Lighten up.

My fiance has a place in the suburbs and I am much more worried about crime at her place than on the third floor of my apartment in the middle of the city...

[SSEiYah]

That's really not any of your business, I was providing an example that the common mindset is that downtown is dangerous.

My GF is the same way I live a couple miles north of downtown (Edgemere park area) and my gf (who lives near council/hefner) is the same way. She's always trying to lock my door which I never lock unless I'm going to bed or leaving the house. She somehow thinks the neighborhood is ghetto compared to hers, probably because the neighborhood is 90+ years old. It might have been ghetto 30 years ago, but is fine now.

[mcca7596]

She somehow thinks the neighborhood is ghetto compared to hers, probably because the neighborhood is 90+ years old.

Yep, so many people automatically associate newness with quality.

I sometimes wonder if the people who prefer the suburbs and cookie cutter homes aren't more often than not those who grew up in dead small towns or older areas of cities and now want a new living experience that they never had as a kid. Conversely, I wonder if those who are attracted to inner city areas are generally people who lived the suburgatory lifestyle where everything is bland and they now crave authenticity and diversity. My point is that I'm interested in the psychological/sociological factors that influence one's living arrangement. I believe there is almost as much correlation between those factors and where one lives as there is between economic/racial factors and where one lives.

[ljbab728]

My GF is the same way I live a couple miles north of downtown (Edgemere park area) and my gf (who lives near council/hefner) is the same way. She's always trying to lock my door which I never lock unless I'm going to bed or leaving the house. She somehow thinks the neighborhood is ghetto compared to hers, probably because the neighborhood is 90+ years old. It might have been ghetto 30 years ago, but is fine now.

I wish I could say I agree with your philosophy but I think it's always a good idea to keep your door locked no matter where you live. You may never have a problem but things happen and you never want to be in a situation where you look back and say "gee I wish I had locked that door". It doesn't mean you feel unsafe. It just means you're being practical in today's world.

[dankrutka]

I wish I could say I agree with your philosophy but I think it's always a good idea to keep your door locked no matter where you live. You may never have a problem but things happen and you never want to be in a situation where you look back and say "gee I wish I had locked that door". It doesn't mean you feel unsafe. It just means you're being practical in today's world.

Or maybe you don't live a life worrying about it and nothing happens. Locked doors don't make as big of a difference as you might think. If a criminal is planning on breaking in your house they usually have a plan to get past a locked door.