Myriad Gardens

[FritterGirl]

Thanks for all the information! Glad to hear that the transformation is well thought out and sensitive to the overall environment of the immediate area... unlike the Sandridge plans! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Don't want to distract from the thread.

They are being extremely sensitive to the environment. Keep in mind that most of the Gardens staff are horticulturalists so are attached to those trees.

They actually performed a GPS tree survey of the entire outdoor grounds so they would know which ones are to stay in place, which are to be transplanted and which are being removed.

[Urbanized]

I'm glad I know what is coming in the Gardens. If someone who was familiar with MBG but unfamiliar with the plans drove by, they would be shocked and horrified. Those guys are getting BUSY. It already looks eerily like one of Steve's circa 1972 urban renewal photos.

[FritterGirl]

I'm glad I know what is coming in the Gardens. If someone who was familiar with MBG but unfamiliar with the plans drove by, they would be shocked and horrified. Those guys are getting BUSY. It already looks eerily like one of Steve's circa 1972 urban renewal photos.

Yes, and they just really started moving the dozers in Monday.

I drove by this evening before heading home and the west side is decimated. Can see almost right through it. It is sad, but we just have to remember what great things there are to come.

[Urbanized]

The Devon Tower cam will provide a great view of the devastation. You can already see the thinning out.

[FritterGirl]

Here are a few pics I took with my iphone this morning. They are not the highest quality - looking into the sun and with the morning haze. I didn't have my hardhat or proper footware so couldn't really venture around very much. It still gives you a bit of a look as what's going on, at least as it looks from Hudson.

[Dustin]

Thank you frittergirl! I'm so excited for the arts festivals to come!

[metro]

Wow, bittersweet, but excited at the new park.

[CuatrodeMayo]

I'm really looking forward to the new gardens and all...but those pics made my heart hurt.

[Larry OKC]

Always thought the MG was an attractive and nicely landscaped place (honestly expected at the bare minimum the same for the Canal when it opened). Just hope they can pull the improvements off and the place is indeed made better. This will be a very telling indicator of what to expect with the MAPS 3 Park.

[progressiveboy]

Always thought the MG was an attractive and nicely landscaped place (honestly expected at the bare minimum the same for the Canal when it opened). Just hope they can pull the improvements off and the place is indeed made better. This will be a very telling indicator of what to expect with the MAPS 3 Park.

Why would you think that thely could not pull off the improvements? Can you provide valid details and points to your statement?

[architect5311]

Where are patrons going to park vehicles? The Cox Center u/g garage? On street parking?

[jbrown84]

It is very scary to see how many trees are gone. It sure looks like they were just ripped out. I know it will be better in the long run, though.

Where are patrons going to park vehicles? The Cox Center u/g garage? On street parking?

There will be curbside parking on all four sides.

[Platemaker]

What's wild is the off-street parking actually increases the total spots from 44 spaces in the existing parking lot to 77 off-street.

[Larry OKC]

Why would you think that thely could not pull off the improvements? Can you provide valid details and points to your statement?

Case in point the Canal that I mentioned. We found out after the Canal opened that much of the landscaping used wasn't indigenous to Oklahoma.

Case in point, the landscaping around the Land Run monument (on the Canal) that has been allowed to die (apparently the irrigation system broke and they decided not to fix).

Then even if they pull it off, there is the matter of maintaining everything. I am keeping my fingers crossed but given the City's track record with many of the parks. Budgets go up and down and one of the first places they seem to make cuts is in the Parks Dept. Granted, with the MG and MAPS 3 Park being bright, shiny & new, they may get the needed attention at first (but at the expense of other parks?)

The MG may be a special case and may not even be a part of the parks dept so it may not be a concern. If someone can verify either way...

[Spartan]

I'm really looking forward to the new gardens and all...but those pics made my heart hurt.

Yeah. It's a lot easier to lose trees than it is buildings though, especially when we know the trees are going to be replanted.

[krisb]

I'm pretty sure the folks at Devon and those overseeing the Devon TIF won't allow maintenance to be neglected. I believe the ongoing maintenance will be part of the new Downtown BID, at least for the streetscapes.

[Larry OKC]

I'm pretty sure the folks at Devon and those overseeing the Devon TIF won't allow maintenance to be neglected. I believe the ongoing maintenance will be part of the new Downtown BID, at least for the streetscapes.

Then I guess the question is, is maintenance built in (or as with MAPS projects) the operation/maintenance is something the City addresses later and comes out of the general fund? Obviously with a limited term sales tax long term maint isn't considered.

Am sure that maintenance wasn't a concern when the MG was built either, yet something happened along the way for Devon to be that concerned about it that it needed a major renovation. Can easily see the same thing happening in a few years.

Not disparaging Devon at all, but that presumes Devon will remain. Not that many years ago, who would have thought Kerr-McGee would vanish? With energy company mergers and Enron type situations (perish the thought)...

[Spartan]

The Myriad Gardens have never really been in "disrepair" or "neglect" save for the glass panels of Crystal Bridge which really were bad. Minimum maintenance has NEVER been an issue, thanks in part to the park conservatory. I presume that the conservatory will still be very involved in the upkeep of the park, especially considering the level of input they had in the park planning process and advocating for keeping it "gardens, not public park" -- leading to the compromise that was reached where parts of it will be more of an urban, active, programmed park and other parts will be gardens. I am sure the conservatory will still be involved in the maintenance of at least the garden portions.

[krisb]

The main thing the MG was lacking is people. Hopefully this renovation will change that.

[Larry OKC]

Color me confused again, but the need of $35 million in renovations suggested to me at least a certain level of disrepair/neglect or whatever you want to call it (think that amount has increased). But then again maybe it was more of completing what was started and never quite finished (back to funding). Seem to recall Mr. Nichols saying something to the effect of both but the links I have are now archived Oklahoman articles. Not sure if the plexi replacement is part of that amount, but it was planned/funded before this all came about, IIRC.

Also, regarding the "lacking people", seem to recall that the MG has always ranked fairly highly as a tourist destination?? Its been a long week and maybe I am imagining things.

To bring up something that I defended in another thread (or was it this one?), with the passage of the highly programmed MAPS 3 Park, why the compromise? Why not return the MG to its Garden "roots" (sorry, couldn't resist).

Again, NOT against the renovations per se. Look forward to it being even better and not just changed/different. Those two don't always go hand in hand.

[Spartan]

In all honesty the Myriad site is a much better site..for now at least. That might explain the need for urban park and programmed elements there. I think we all wanted something new and fresh with the Myriad however.

As for the glass panels, you're right..funded by the 2008 bond issue BUT I think they may have dipped into the $35-41 million for park renovations (I forget what the total end number is off the top of my head, but I think 41 maybe) in order to splurge on the REALLY cool and REALLY worthwhile LED panels. The 2008 bond issue included..maybe a million? I forget. I think if you search on Steve's blog about it you'll come across something. okccentral.com

Larry, you're also right about the Myriad Gardens "maybe/not really/only somewhat/depends" lacking people and ranking high as a tourist destination. It DOES have people and rank high as a tourist destination within the context of Downtown OKC which is relatively low pedestrian traffic and tourist exposure to begin with. Big fish in a small pond in terms of downtown notoriety but we're trying to make it a more integral piece of a completely revamped downtown.

The millions in renovations are mostly because the park was showing its age. Not because of maintenance, but because of outdated designs. The exposed concrete and concrete plazas everywhere were brutal, and very 80s. The bottom line is we just want the Myriad Gardens to become an environment that is free of some of the design errors that timestamped it in the first place.

The work Dean McGee did to make the park become a reality was well worth it, probably the ONLY good thing that has come from urban renewal in OKC--so I hate to say it was "initially flawed" but there were parts that needed to be redesigned. Dean McGee was no architect..I.M. Pei unfortunately masqueraded as one.

I liked your pun about its garden "roots."

[Larry OKC]

Ok, I went and looked it up as you suggested from Steve's blog...

With the Myriad Gardens project estimate at $43 million, $6 million above the original estimate...

Think these numbers were from Ms. Story and not Steve but by my math, $43M is $8M above the original reported $35M but why quibble over a couple of million? LOL

Thanks! I am sure it will produce a few groans, but I just couldn't resist

The one thing that occurs to me is the only reason MG and the new MAPS 3 string of parks DON'T connect was possibly because they wanted to keep the MGs distinct identity (as a botanical gardens). IF that is the case, then why confuse things with the overlapping/duplication of the two? Now that we know that both are going to exist in relative close proximity to each other (both in time and place)?

Not arguing, just asking...

[Spartan]

I think it's stupid that they didn't connect the Myriad to the new park. So I would say the reason isn't to keep the Myriad unique or blah blah, but because they're stupid. Make sense?

But I suppose that could be part of it. Maybe they're trying to keep the CBD identity separate from the C2S identity. As for the difference between 6 and 8 million, I seem to recall $37 mil being an important number too, maybe different articles show different totals. As for arguing over details with you, well..I learned during the MAPS debate that minute details are best left to you, Larry..so it's just whatever you say.

I don't think anyone is of the disposition that going from $6 mil over to $8 mil over just crosses a line, can't support the project anymore..

[FritterGirl]

There will be curbside parking on all four sides.

There will be parking on three sides. There will not be curbside parking along Sheridan, across from Devon.

I am sure the conservatory will still be involved in the maintenance of at least the garden portions.

While the Myriad Gardens Foundation's primary role has been to raise funds and support the Gardens through fund-raising initiatives for education programming and capital improvements, they are looking at other means they can continue to support the Gardens on a continual basis. As for maintenance, the Gardens have been maintained exclusively by City staff.

Color me confused again, but the need of $35 million in renovations suggested to me at least a certain level of disrepair/neglect or whatever you want to call it (think that amount has increased). But then again maybe it was more of completing what was started and never quite finished (back to funding). Seem to recall Mr. Nichols saying something to the effect of both but the links I have are now archived Oklahoman articles. Not sure if the plexi replacement is part of that amount, but it was planned/funded before this all came about, IIRC.

Also, regarding the "lacking people", seem to recall that the MG has always ranked fairly highly as a tourist destination?? Its been a long week and maybe I am imagining things.

While the horticulture aspect of the Gardens was in good shape, some of the architectural features were starting to fall into at least a state of minimal disrepair, although structurally things are still in good shape. The Foundation was able to raise approximately $250,000 for improvements to the Water Stage, and were looking to eventually work towards a larger fund-raising campaign to redo the north lake area when the opportunity for Devon TIF funds came about.

The total budget for the project is $38 million, with $12 million coming from the General Obligation Bond voted upon by the citizens in 2007. This portion of the budget will fund the reglazing of the Crystal Bridge and the new South entry portal and plaza area.

The remainder of the budget is for the other projects as outlined above.

While the Gardens have been a popular tourist destination (approx 90,000 visitors annually to the Crystal Bridge; 1 million to outdoor grounds (including Arts Festival, Downtown in December and other events), these additional amenities will facilitate growth in not only the tourism sector, but will also aid in attracting more local visitors.

I think it's stupid that they didn't connect the Myriad to the new park. So I would say the reason isn't to keep the Myriad unique or blah blah, but because they're stupid.

Um. Not quite sure what to say here. If you look at the bird's-eye view of the site plan, you will see a north-south walkway that runs through the Gardens - quite literally through the Crystal Bridge. This is the northern portion of what is being called the "Harvey Spine" in the C2S project. The south plaza of the CB is the northern entry portal for C2S. It's kind of hard to see without looking at it as a whole, but that's what it is.

The link below shows an early bird's eye rendering of Core 2 Shore, where this link, or spine, is clearly visible. While the C2S plans have shifted around this, the spine itself remains in tact. http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/visuals/idea_1_full_size.jpg

[Larry OKC]

I think it's stupid that they didn't connect the Myriad to the new park. So I would say the reason isn't to keep the Myriad unique or blah blah, but because they're stupid. Make sense?

But I suppose that could be part of it. Maybe they're trying to keep the CBD identity separate from the C2S identity. As for the difference between 6 and 8 million, I seem to recall $37 mil being an important number too, maybe different articles show different totals. As for arguing over details with you, well..I learned during the MAPS debate that minute details are best left to you, Larry..so it's just whatever you say.

I don't think anyone is of the disposition that going from $6 mil over to $8 mil over just crosses a line, can't support the project anymore..

Sorry. As I said, wasn't quibbling over it, just pointing the discrepancy out is all ($35M, Oklahoman, 10/9/09). The overall increase once again shows the that projects often come in over what was originally told. At the present $43M, that is 23% more than the original $35M. If the latest number from FritterGirl is correct (and have no reason to believe It isn't) then they managed to keep the over runs in check and that's great news. That puts the overage at about the 8% the City says they average. Of course the renovation is just beginning so we will have to wait to see what the final numbers are.

All of that being said, the concern as how this might relate to MAPS 3 is the cost over run aspect. Instead of the 8% overage, they have only set aside 2.2%. When you are talking an overall $777M budget, the change in percentages comes into some serious cash. Perish the thought, but if the cost over runs of the original MAPS projects (47.75%) is repeated....