Religion Question

[bandnerd]

Oh yeah, how am I "hiding" behind the internet? I have no choice but to discuss this over the internet because...well, it's an INTERNET forum! I hide nothing, and I say nothing here that I wouldn't actually say to anyone. I have no fear of the people on this forum. I am a very open, very loudly spoken person, and always have been. Nothing changes "behind" the internet for me.

Just had to add that...can't grade tests forever.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Now that the pissing match is over...



Bible-based Creation Museum attracts thousands in Kentucky as dozens of protesters jeer

PETERSBURG, Ky. (AP) — A museum that tells the Bible’s version of Earth’s history — that the planet was created in a single week just a few thousand years ago — attracted thousands to its opening as protesters rallied outside.

The dozens of demonstrators argued Monday that the Creation Museum’s central tenets conflict with scientific evidence that the Earth is several billion years old. Overhead, an airplane pulled a banner with the message: “Thou Shalt Not Lie.”

The privately funded museum had more than 4,000 guests on opening day, said Mark Looy, a co-founder of the $27 million facility 20 miles southwest of Cincinnati. The parking lot was filled with license plates from dozens of states.

“The guests were very happy with the museum experience,” Looy said. “Of course, we had some naysayers come through and engage us in conversation, and that’s fine — we want them.”

Lawrence Krauss, an author and physicist at Cleveland’s Case Western Reserve University, decided to view the museum firsthand.

“It’s really impressive — and it really gives the impression that they’re talking about science at some point,” Krauss said. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 5 being best, “I’d give it a 4 for technology, 5 for propaganda. As for content, I’d give it a negative 5.”

The museum features high-tech exhibits designed by a theme-park artist, including animatronic dinosaurs and a wooden ark at least two stories tall, plus a special effects theater and planetarium. Some exhibits show dinosaurs aboard Noah’s Ark and assert that all animals were vegetarians until Adam committed the first sin in the Garden of Eden.

[jbrown84]

Why protest it? That's ridiculous. No one's forcing anyone to go there.

[Easy180]

That's exactly what I was thinking jbrown...Those people had way too much free time on their hands

Actually sounds pretty interesting even though I'm sure there would be a fair amount of head shaking going on if I went

[bandnerd]

Eh, people protest everything. I don't understand how Adam eating the apple caused animals to not be vegetarians anymore?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Why protest it? That's ridiculous. No one's forcing anyone to go there.

Because they're free to do so?

Meh...Doesn't really matter. Their protesting is like farting in the wind...They might feel better after doing it...But nobody is going to smell their flavor.

I think it's pretty retarded myself, but as long as it's privately funded, I see no reason to get all atwist about it.

[NE Oasis]

Eh, people protest everything. I don't understand how Adam eating the apple caused animals to not be vegetarians anymore?

I can't find any reference in the Bible. These quotes are from the New American Standard version, comments in parentheses mine-

Genesis 2:9 (God's efforts during creation)
"...every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food...."
Genesis 2:16
"...from any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
(implied vegetarianism)

Genesis 6:21 (God's direction to Noah prior to the flood)
"And as for you, take for yourself some of all food which is edible...it shall be food for you and for them."
(again, implied vegetarianism)

Genesis 9:3 (God's direction to Noah after the flood, long after Adam's demise)
Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give it all to you, as I gave the green plant"

With lifelong appreciation to Mrs. Melvena Leake, 9th grade English teacher who taught me the joys of research

[Dark Jedi]

I'll toss a curveball at you.

I'll make the argument that we are actively teaching a religion in public schools, and it's called "secular humanism."

Its focus is to say that you should rely on yourself for your own direction; that you should endeavor to do those things that make you "feel good," and that there is really no ultimate notion of "wrong." If you do something that someone else considers to be "wrong," then they are "insensitive" and "intolerant." Nothing is ever actually your own fault; everyone is a victim of circumstance, therefore you never have to be burdened with anything like personal accountability. If anyone opposes you, just call them names and shout them down until they give up trying to offer an opposing point of view.

Humanism teaches that you shouldn't just pursue, but are essentialy entitled to anything you want, and that individual desires trump the rule of law, because ultimately the rule of law just persecutes the individual. You have an indefatigable right never to be offended by anything, and if you take offense, you are entitled to unlimited persecution of anyone offering such offense. Open debate under secular humanism is to be encouraged, provided everyone offers the same view on all topics - any contrarian view should be ridiculed as "narrow minded" and shot down, because such opposition is inherently "mean spirited."

Humanism sports its inspirational quotes from what might be identified as the contemporary "cultural and spiritual cognoscenti" such as Maya Angelou, Oprah, Lenin, Lennon, (sometimes even Marx), and offers as its forum for debate arenas like "The View," and offers as its scientific experts a vast array of movie and TV stars to ensure everyone "feels good" about what is imposed on others. Its hymns are songs like "Imagine."

Extreme perspective? Perhaps. But just because there's no daily, weekly, or other periodic meeting place that serves as a place of worship, or a single book that serves as a theological core, doesn't mean it isn't a religion...

-soonerdave

It is impolite to lie. Secular Humanism is not taught in schools, and is far from what you claim it is.
I suggest you research it yourself, instead of regurgitating what your power-hungry shepherds have been feeding you.
Humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - A good start. read all the references.

[Dark Jedi]

Because they're free to do so?

Meh...Doesn't really matter. Their protesting is like farting in the wind...They might feel better after doing it...But nobody is going to smell their flavor.

I think it's pretty retarded myself, but as long as it's privately funded, I see no reason to get all atwist about it.

I agree. While I may see it as pointless and teaching lies to children, it is their own money, resources, and time they choose to do it with. You won't see me opposing it until they start trying to make public school field trips there.
Then I will oppose the trips, not the museum.

[CuatrodeMayo]

According to your link, Secular Humansim is a rejection of all things supernatural and bases all things upon human rationing.

Secular humanism is the branch of humanism that rejects theistic religious belief, and the existence of the supernatural. It is often associated with scientists and academics, though it is not at all limited to these groups. Secular humanists generally believe that following humanist principles leads to secularism, on the basis that supernatural beliefs cannot be supported using human-centered rational arguments and therefore all traditionally religiously associated activity must be rejected.

Humanism may not be a "religion" proper, but it is most certainly a belief system. While Secular Humanism is not explicitly taught in public schools, by rejecting any type of supernatural influence and focusing on self and rational explaination, Humanism is implicitly taught.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

I agree. While I may see it as pointless and teaching lies to children, it is their own money, resources, and time they choose to do it with. You won't see me opposing it until they start trying to make public school field trips there.
Then I will oppose the trips, not the museum.

Or until they start getting gooberment subsidies or grants. Then I'd hit the roof.

I still want to go see the place...Out of morbid curiosity. No way would I drink the water there though.

[Dark Jedi]

According to your link, Secular Humansim is a rejection of all things supernatural and bases all things upon human rationing.



Humanism may not be a "religion" proper, but it is most certainly a belief system. While Secular Humanism is not explicitly taught in public schools, by rejecting any type of supernatural influence and focusing on self and rational explaination, Humanism is implicitly taught.

Twisting reality to suit your agenda still qualifies as lying.
They do not teach secular humanism in schools, simple as that. A lack of your favorite mythology does not by default mean one at the opposite end of the spectrum is automatically taught.
They teach no religion in school, as it should be. That is for the parents to decide and teach, not the school.

[CuatrodeMayo]

By definition, no religion at all is Secular Humanism.

Simple as that.

Your posts seem to have a thinly-veiled personal attack. Please refrain from name-calling (i.e. Liar), and belittling people who do not believe as you do. I do not agree with your beliefs, but I do not deride you for them. Please extend to me and others on this board the same courtesy. We can debate the issue in a civil manner without having to descend to personal attacks.

[GrandMaMa]

If you could vote to allow religion to be taught in public schools, would you do it? Consider the equal protection clause of the US Constitution. If you vote yes, this means that your child would be exposed to Christianity, Hindu, Islam, Paganism, and others. Would this be good exposure for them, or under these circumstances would you rather religion not be taught in school?

WHAT A GOOD QUESTION! My answer is NO! Unless at college level, this is a subject to be taught/not taught at home, by parents.

[Dark Jedi]

By definition, no religion at all is Secular Humanism.

Simple as that.

Your posts seem to have a thinly-veiled personal attack. Please refrain from name-calling (i.e. Liar), and belittling people who do not believe as you do. I do not agree with your beliefs, but I do not deride you for them. Please extend to me and others on this board the same courtesy. We can debate the issue in a civil manner without having to descend to personal attacks.

Again, false. Secular humanism is a specific philosophy, not the lack of any religion.

The lack of religion is secular, yes. However, secular is a stand alone word, and is not irrevocably linked to humanism.

Schools are secular to protect the religious preference of all attending, past present and future.
Not 90%. Not 99%. All of them. The only way to do that is to remain secular in school and let the parents teach their religion to their kids as they see fit.

As for the accusation of lying, I retract the original. It seems, at that time, you did not know. All subsequent assertions since you have been informed different remain lies. They were uttered knowing them false, the very definition of a lie.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Again, false. Secular humanism is a specific philosophy, not the lack of any religion.

Prove it. All your links say otherwise.

A link from the Wikipedia page: Council for Secular Humanism

According the to Council for Secular Humansim, freedom from religious influence is the primary tenant of Secular Humansim.

As for the accusation of lying, I retract the original. It seems, at that time, you did not know. All subsequent assertions since you have been informed different remain lies. They were uttered knowing them false, the very definition of a lie.

Once again, you are calling me a liar. The fact is, I am merely repeating what I have read in your links. If I am a liar, prove it.

[Dark Jedi]

Prove it. All your links say otherwise.

A link from the Wikipedia page: Council for Secular Humanism

According the to Council for Secular Humansim, freedom from religious influence is the primary tenant of Secular Humansim.



Once again, you are calling me a liar. The fact is, I am merely repeating what I have read in your links. If I am a liar, prove it.

How can I prove it better than the link you provided? It outlines what Secular Humanism is, and it is clearly not a simple lack of religion that you claim. have you even read what you linked? It outlines many aspects of the philosophy, few of which are taught in school. Those that are are the ones that are simple good citizenship like respecting each other. Common to any social philosophy to include most religions. even yours, though a great many of it's practitioners choose to ignore.

[GrandMaMa]

I must say "this thread has really become an interesting and uplifting addition to this site"

[the mole]

i cannot say that i am for teaching religion in any school, especially not public ones, but as jbrown said, there is a difference betwen teaching the relgion itself and where it comes from/its impact of history and society. in any case, school should promote the notion that religion or the lack of it is a very personal thing and that it is something only they can decide for themselves.

and to adress some of the more recent posts: the lack of religious instruction does not automatically equate to acknowledgement of the absence of religion. again all schools should ay regarding the topic is that each person must decide for themselves.