Living wage and/or minimum wage

[Bill Robertson]

I'm not poo-pooing the concept. Just trying to explain that the idea of "advocate for yourself" and "ask for a raise" aren't concepts that actually exist in my experience. That said, at least for the last few years the annual raises from my employer have not kept up with the cost of living.

I agree. I have never worked for or known anyone that worked for a company that would take a suggestion of a raise outside the predetermined annual increase seriously.
One exception was in the early 70s when my dad was the sole pressman in a print shop near downtown. He could have up to 5 presses running at the same time. And the old school printing presses took a lot of constant tweaking to run smoothly. He did demand and get a couple unscheduled raises. But there probably wasn't another pressman anywhere that could do what he could do. Losing him would have meant closing down or hiring 2 or 3 people to replace him.

[gjl]

Worked a union factory job my whole adult life. Our raises and benefits were clearly spelled out and negotiated in every contract. I know some people don't like unions and they do have their down sides but they provided me with a very livable blue collar income, good benefits, and a pension, all while allowing the company we worked for to make a nice profit.

[Rover]

No just the regulations that are basically feel good only and have no true benefit. I read a couple of weeks ago there are over 300,000 federal regulations in effect. Do we really need all of them?

What you may consider "feel good" may be essential according to others. What a company may claim impedes them, those affected claim it protects them.

Politicians make broad sweeping claims but fail to amend or deal with specific regulations.... many times depending on who their supporters are and their lore, not on actual facts. Almost everyone I ask the question to can't name a specific regulation that actually hurts them and can only regurgitate popular generalized spin. It's just like the pushed narrative that crime is rising. If people scream lies long enough people who want to believe, believe them. Often times regulations are made to address the antics of someone trying to outsmart the system and the rest of us and are looking for the loopholes.

That said, there may indeed be too many regulations and many may be outdated, but we should rifle shot them, not shotgun blast them. Last time we softened regulations significantly it led to the 2007-9 super recession.... banks, lenders and other financial institutions out of control. Trust private institutions at your own peril.

[GaryOKC6]

Have you done a calculation of what $3.00 in your part of the 1970s equals today? It is over $15.00

I rounded it up. It was closer to 2.75. You missed the point. It is how hard you are willing to work. So, to your point then you could say that I supported myself, paid for college and worked my way up all on a 15.00 an hour job.

[Ginkasa]

I rounded it up. It was closer to 2.75. You missed the point. It is how hard you are willing to work. So, to your point then you could say that I supported myself, paid for college and worked my way up all on a 15.00 an hour job.

There seems to be this presumption that raising the minimum wage means people want to live a luxurious lifestyle while not working or working a presumed "easy" job. Nobody asks for that. You said it yourself: you supported yourself on the equivalent of $15 an hour. You worked hard to get better and nobody's disputing that, but the minimum wage right now is not $15.00. It is $7.25. You did not support yourself and obtain a better life with the equivalent of $7.25 an hour back in the day, you did it with the equivalent of $15.00. So let's raise the minimum wage so that people starting out or starting over today have the same chance to work hard and support themselves and obtain a better life like you did back in the day.

[Dob Hooligan]

I rounded it up. It was closer to 2.75. You missed the point. It is how hard you are willing to work. So, to your point then you could say that I supported myself, paid for college and worked my way up all on a 15.00 an hour job.

I worked cheap, and worked hard, lived alone and did okay back in the 1970s-80s. I was nothing special, and I watch people every day work just as hard as I did back then. People are no different.

I think the free market sets the living wage. But, and this has become a big but, the minimum wage in it's currently artificially low amount creates a situation where the most challenged people are taken advantage of. The person with a criminal record, and/or other impediments to employment can be trapped in jobs for $10 per hour. And those people can wind up at the camps and in the tents.

[GaryOKC6]

There seems to be this presumption that raising the minimum wage means people want to live a luxurious lifestyle while not working or working a presumed "easy" job. Nobody asks for that. You said it yourself: you supported yourself on the equivalent of $15 an hour. You worked hard to get better and nobody's disputing that, but the minimum wage right now is not $15.00. It is $7.25. You did not support yourself and obtain a better life with the equivalent of $7.25 an hour back in the day, you did it with the equivalent of $15.00. So let's raise the minimum wage so that people starting out or starting over today have the same chance to work hard and support themselves and obtain a better life like you did back in the day.

I do not know many businesses paying under 15.00 an hour. If they are then they can't find employees. I have a friend with a small restaurant that has been looking for a few employees for months. It is easy work, and he starts at over 18.00 an hour. If you know someone who is willing to work and want to make more than 15.00 an hour send them my way. As a bonus, he does not care if you have a felony on your record either. I work with hundreds of companies trying to hire and not one of them pays less than 15 an hour.

[Mesta Parker]

What you may consider "feel good" may be essential according to others. What a company may claim impedes them, those affected claim it protects them.

Politicians make broad sweeping claims but fail to amend or deal with specific regulations.... many times depending on who their supporters are and their lore, not on actual facts. Almost everyone I ask the question to can't name a specific regulation that actually hurts them and can only regurgitate popular generalized spin. It's just like the pushed narrative that crime is rising. If people scream lies long enough people who want to believe, believe them. Often times regulations are made to address the antics of someone trying to outsmart the system and the rest of us and are looking for the loopholes.

That said, there may indeed be too many regulations and many may be outdated, but we should rifle shot them, not shotgun blast them. Last time we softened regulations significantly it led to the 2007-9 super recession.... banks, lenders and other financial institutions out of control. Trust private institutions at your own peril.

I basically agree with everything you stated with one caveat, “ Trust private institutions at your own peril”. That statement should be expanded to include any organization that people create; unions, environmental groups, government, political parties, etc. Groups of people with a common cause or power always look for advantage and or control. Just the way people are. My point is that over regulation can be just as damaging as under regulation.

[fortpatches]

I rounded it up. It was closer to 2.75. You missed the point. It is how hard you are willing to work. So, to your point then you could say that I supported myself, paid for college and worked my way up all on a 15.00 an hour job.

Assuming a male, in OKC, less than 25 years old:
Currently, assuming are working that $15/hr full time and that they have an angel of a boss that schedules around your classes:
$15/hr = $31.2k/yr =~$26k net

For someone making $15/hr there are 59 rentals in OKC available at $722/mo or less. (Only 47 with one or more bedrooms and only 1 with more than 1 bedroom). There are only 9 rentals available in OKC less than $600.
That leaves you with about $1444/month.

Water = $50
Electric = $120
Internet = $50
Phone = $50
That leaves you with ~$1175/month.

Assuming you take the minimum hours for a full-time student, at OSU-OKC, and you are getting an Associate's degree. That is $5,218.80/yr in Tuition, Books, and Fees. So, if you can setup a payment plan to pay evenly throughout the year, that's about $434/month.

That leaves you with ~$741/month

The used cars within 50miles of my zip code and less than 100k miles with $0 down and financed for up to 5 years, at $200/month or less only shows 35 cars.
Premiums for minimum coverage in OK on average for 20year old ~$110/mo (almost twice that if you are 18 years old).
Putting aside $50/mo for maintenance.
My personal average monthly fuel cost since I bought my car is $106/mo.

That leaves ~$275/mo.

Oklahomans pay an average of $230 per month, or $2,756 per year on non-restaurant food and beverages.

So that leaves $45/month to save, dining out at restaurants with friends or family, having Avocado Toast or fancy Starbucks drinks. Or for a streaming service. Or household furnishings. Buying Kitchen utensils. Buying personal hygiene products. Maybe for buying paper towels or toilet paper. Or replacing clothing or shoes. Maybe getting a haircut to look presentable.

So, if you are one of the ... lucky(?) people to buy one of the 35 cheapest cars and one or the 47 cheapest rentals in OKC, you could probably just eeeek by on $15/hr covering your schooling at a cheap community college assuming you have no debt at all at this time, other than your car. And are at least 20 years old.

[bamarsha]

There seems to be this presumption that raising the minimum wage means people want to live a luxurious lifestyle while not working or working a presumed "easy" job. Nobody asks for that. You said it yourself: you supported yourself on the equivalent of $15 an hour. You worked hard to get better and nobody's disputing that, but the minimum wage right now is not $15.00. It is $7.25. You did not support yourself and obtain a better life with the equivalent of $7.25 an hour back in the day, you did it with the equivalent of $15.00. So let's raise the minimum wage so that people starting out or starting over today have the same chance to work hard and support themselves and obtain a better life like you did back in the day.

Part of the point of this original post is that no one actually pays minimum wage around here... everyone pays over. Even a 16 y/o working her first job ever makes over minimum wage.

And yes, to some extent, the term luxury has been exaggerated, but the point is still the same. Living in an apartment with a roommate is doable (may not be ideal, but certainly reasonable). Having an older phone and not the newest/latest iPhone or Samsung is definitely doable. Having Wal-Mart clothes is not ideal, but doable, no one needs Polo or better to survive. A small motorized bike is much cheaper than a used car and will work for a commute. You don't need to keep up with the Jones if you don't have the skills to make as much as the Jones. You just have to do what it takes to move up (unless you are fine with status quo).

[Ginkasa]

I do not know many businesses paying under 15.00 an hour. If they are then they can't find employees. I have a friend with a small restaurant that has been looking for a few employees for months. It is easy work, and he starts at over 18.00 an hour. If you know someone who is willing to work and want to make more than 15.00 an hour send them my way. As a bonus, he does not care if you have a felony on your record either. I work with hundreds of companies trying to hire and not one of them pays less than 15 an hour.

If "no one" is paying under $15 an hour what's the reason for not making it official? I can tell you the reason for is that there are
places that offer less than $15. HTeaO offered my wife, who doesn't have a large employment history, $9 an hour. We're fortunate enough to not need that income so she could easily pass on it. Not everyone is so fortunate to be able to turn down that job. If we agree $15 an hour is enough to "get you started" and that businesses are already paying it, why not make it official to stop predatory employers from taking advantage of people not able to say "no"?

Part of the point of this original post is that no one actually pays minimum wage around here... everyone pays over. Even a 16 y/o working her first job ever makes over minimum wage.

And yes, to some extent, the term luxury has been exaggerated, but the point is still the same. Living in an apartment with a roommate is doable (may not be ideal, but certainly reasonable). Having an older phone and not the newest/latest iPhone or Samsung is definitely doable. Having Wal-Mart clothes is not ideal, but doable, no one needs Polo or better to survive. A small motorized bike is much cheaper than a used car and will work for a commute. You don't need to keep up with the Jones if you don't have the skills to make as much as the Jones. You just have to do what it takes to move up (unless you are fine with status quo).

Nothing of your comment has anything to do with this post of mine you quoted. You seem fixated on the idea that people want a livable wage only to live it up and have nice things, not that people need it to actually live. "Paying a livable wage" and "working hard to move up and earn nice things" are not mutually exclusive.

And even if everyone is paying more than minimum wage (which they're not) that's just proof that the minimum wage is too small. Companies are, by design, going to pay their workers as little as they can get away with. If they're feeling compelled to pay more that's only because they have to in order to get workers. Workers aren't turning down $7.25 because they want a new iPhone, they're turning down $7.25 because that doesn't pay the bills required to just survive.

[April in the Plaza]

I basically agree with everything you stated with one caveat, “ Trust private institutions at your own peril”. That statement should be expanded to include any organization that people create; unions, environmental groups, government, political parties, etc. Groups of people with a common cause or power always look for advantage and or control. Just the way people are. My point is that over regulation can be just as damaging as under regulation.

this is beautifully said, MP. thank you for speaking truth to power.

it's very rare these days.

[gjl]

So HTeaO offered $9.hr and she said no and moved on. That is more than minimum, agreed? And when enough people turn down that offer they will have to offer more.

[Ginkasa]

So HTeaO offered $9.hr and she said no and moved on. That is more than minimum, agreed? And when enough people turn down that offer they will have to offer more.

Moving the goalposts there. GaryOKC said "no one pays less than $15". I said "here's someone that pays less than $15." Sure, agreed that 9 > 7.25 but that's not relevant to the point being made in that moment.

You wanna trust the whims of a corporation to treat people right have at it.

[OkieBerto]

I basically agree with everything you stated with one caveat, “ Trust private institutions at your own peril”. That statement should be expanded to include any organization that people create; unions, environmental groups, government, political parties, etc. Groups of people with a common cause or power always look for advantage and or control. Just the way people are. My point is that over regulation can be just as damaging as under regulation.

I do believe that in a ton of cases there is over regulations, but there are tons of regulations that are just at the bare minimum that the government can ask of a corporation. For the most part corporation will try and do the bare minimum and sometimes right below it. Just enough to not get caught.

Walmart is a good example of this. They will hire a ton of part time employees and keep them just below full time hours. This way they do not need to offer them benefits. Causing most of their store staff to have second or third jobs. Even if they are paying above minimum wage for those part time jobs.

[OKCRealtor]

Over regulation is going to do more damage in the long term, price fixing & controls don't work. We have some pretty radical policies being proposed right now.

Minimum wage should be raised but how much does it really matter? I was making more than the minimum wage now with a part time job sacking groceries at 15 after school (tips carrying them out) Went to Sonic at 16 to carhop and was making 3x minimum wage.

If anything the crap wage should motivate people even more. Things haven't really changed that much, sure the economics & math change with the cycles but it all comes down to how hard you're willing to work, what you're willing to pursue & skills and personal development to get where you want to go. This is the United States and there are still just as many opportunities now as before.

[fortpatches]

Part of the point of this original post is that no one actually pays minimum wage around here... everyone pays over. Even a 16 y/o working her first job ever makes over minimum wage.

And yes, to some extent, the term luxury has been exaggerated, but the point is still the same. Living in an apartment with a roommate is doable (may not be ideal, but certainly reasonable). Having an older phone and not the newest/latest iPhone or Samsung is definitely doable. Having Wal-Mart clothes is not ideal, but doable, no one needs Polo or better to survive. A small motorized bike is much cheaper than a used car and will work for a commute. You don't need to keep up with the Jones if you don't have the skills to make as much as the Jones. You just have to do what it takes to move up (unless you are fine with status quo).

Approximately 1.4% of paid hourly workers in Oklahoma are paid at or below the Federal Minimum wage. This comes out to about 13k OK workers that are paid at or below the Federal Minimum Wage.

Nation-wide by Occupation (I don't have OK specific numbers handy) 8.6% of workers paid at or below minimum wage are in "Management, Professional, and Related Occupations", 72.7% are in "Service Occupations" (with 59.2% in Food preparation and serving related occupations), 10.9% are in Sales and Office Occupations, 1.5% are in "Natural Resources, Construction, and Maintenance Occupations", and 6.3% are in "Production, Transportation, and Material Moving Occupations".

44.7% are 16-24years old while 55.3% are 25+.

The "South" has the largest percentage of wages at or below minimum at 47.1% (meaning, 47.1% of people paid at or below minimum live in the "South" region.
South:
(25.4%) South Atlantic: Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia
(6.9%) East South Central: Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, and Tennessee
(14.7%) West South Central: Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, and Texas

By Industry:
Agriculture and related Industries: 0.7%
Mining: 0.0%
Construction: 0.9%
Manufacturing: 3.4%
Wholesale and Retail: 7.7%
Transportation and Utilities: 1.3%
Information: 1.0%
Financial activities: 0.8%
Professional and Business: 4.0%
Education and Health: 9.0%
Leisure and Hospitality: 62.4%
Other: 3.8%

By Educational Attainment:
Less than HS: 11.7%
HS Grad, no College: 36%
Some College or Assoc. Deg: 36.9%
Bachelors or higher: 15.5%
- Highest: Bachelors 13.1%
- Highest: Masters 1.6%
- Highest: Professional 0.5%
- Highest: Doctoral 0.3%

By Hours Worked:
Hours Vary: 12.8%
0-34hrs: 46.8%
35+hrs: 40.4%
40+hrs: 30.9%.
(Meaning, of people making at or below minimum wage, 30.9% work 40 or more hrs / week).

[bamarsha]

Approximately 1.4% of paid hourly workers in Oklahoma are paid at or below the Federal Minimum wage. This comes out to about 13k OK workers that are paid at or below the Federal Minimum Wage.

Nation-wide by Occupation (I don't have OK specific numbers handy) 8.6% of workers paid at or below minimum wage are in "Management, Professional, and Related Occupations", 72.7% are in "Service Occupations" (with 59.2% in Food preparation and serving related occupations), 10.9% are in Sales and Office Occupations, 1.5% are in "Natural Resources, Construction, and Maintenance Occupations", and 6.3% are in "Production, Transportation, and Material Moving Occupations".

Who are the 1.4% of people in Oklahoma making less than $7.25/hr? Does that include the tipped workers (who make up the difference in tips)? Does this include the 12 y/o working on the farm for mom and dad?

I did a quick search on Indeed and ZipRecruiter and couldn't find any that low (lowest I could find is $10/hr... but I do know of jobs starting at $9/hr for 16 y/o with absolutely no work experience). And if someone really makes $7.25/hr, why don't they simply go get one of the many available jobs that pay more?

Mixing all sorts of minimum wages into the discussion really muddies the water. The minimum wage is Florida is higher than that in Oklahoma... so I am not sure what to make of the rest of your post.

[BoulderSooner]

Some College or Assoc. Deg: 36.9%
Bachelors or higher: 15.5%
- Highest: Bachelors 13.1%
- Highest: Masters 1.6%
- Highest: Professional 0.5%
- Highest: Doctoral 0.3%

.

are these wal mart greeters??

[fortpatches]

Who are the 1.4% of people in Oklahoma making less than $7.25/hr? Does that include the tipped workers (who make up the difference in tips)? Does this include the 12 y/o working on the farm for mom and dad?

I did a quick search on Indeed and ZipRecruiter and couldn't find any that low (lowest I could find is $10/hr... but I do know of jobs starting at $9/hr for 16 y/o with absolutely no work experience). And if someone really makes $7.25/hr, why don't they simply go get one of the many available jobs that pay more?

Mixing all sorts of minimum wages into the discussion really muddies the water. The minimum wage is Florida is higher than that in Oklahoma... so I am not sure what to make of the rest of your post.

Tipped workers - you can see the breakdown by industry and occupation. I would imagine that the "59.2% in Food preparation and serving related occupations" would likely include Tipped workers. But keep in mind, this would include the tips as part of the wage since the employer has to ensure tipped workers make at least the federal minimum wage after tips. In other words, this would include people who are tipped workers who make the tipped base wage where including the tips they get, would have a wage at or below $7.25.

I am not mixing all sorts of min wages. I provided the numbers by people for Oklahoma. All of the numbers I provided are in reference to FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE - the numbers are not concerned with, or measuring, any numbers related to STATE minimum wage. I realize my post only mentioned "Federal Minimum Wage" twice, I should have been more explicit. Thanks for pointing out how people can misconstrue what I posted to somehow include state numbers even though state minimum wage was never referenced. The rest of the numbers are provided in reference to other comments regarding the demographics of people in minimum wage jobs.


The rest of the numbers are national and only concerned with FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE since that was more readily available and I didnt want to take the time to dig up OK numbers for you. Im sorry I dont have the capacity to do that for you right now. The minimum wage in Florida is not pertinent to this conversation. That is why it is not included, referenced, or alluded to.

Re: who are the people?
Not sure what you are asking? Do you want me to go around and find the roughly 13k people with a wage at or below fed minimum for you? Or are you asking about jobs and not people and would like me to find a job posting somewhere that is offering a job starting at minimum wage?

*why don't they simply go get one of the many available jobs that pay more?*
I dont know? I am not in that group and cannot really speak for them. I'd imagine people have different circumstances than you or I have that will inform their decisions for their specific situation.


Does it include 12yo.... No, it does not. It only includes people 16years old and older. That is a good point though! The numbers are probably under-representative in that case. Do you have any numbers you can share regarding wages for workers under 16yo?

[fortpatches]

are these wal mart greeters??

I realize your question is likely not asked in good faith. However, in the off chance that it was, I don't know what positions people with those levels of educational attainment have. I didn't look into specific jobs at specific employers. If you have a way to get that data, I would be happy to take a look at it for you.

[bamarsha]

Tipped workers - you can see the breakdown by industry and occupation. I would imagine that the "59.2% in Food preparation and serving related occupations" would likely include Tipped workers. But keep in mind, this would include the tips as part of the wage since the employer has to ensure tipped workers make at least the federal minimum wage after tips. In other words, this would include people who are tipped workers who make the tipped base wage where including the tips they get, would have a wage at or below $7.25.

I am not mixing all sorts of min wages. I provided the numbers by people for Oklahoma. All of the numbers I provided are in reference to FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE - the numbers are not concerned with, or measuring, any numbers related to STATE minimum wage. I realize my post only mentioned "Federal Minimum Wage" twice, I should have been more explicit. Thanks for pointing out how people can misconstrue what I posted to somehow include state numbers even though state minimum wage was never referenced. The rest of the numbers are provided in reference to other comments regarding the demographics of people in minimum wage jobs.


The rest of the numbers are national and only concerned with FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE since that was more readily available and I didnt want to take the time to dig up OK numbers for you. Im sorry I dont have the capacity to do that for you right now. The minimum wage in Florida is not pertinent to this conversation. That is why it is not included, referenced, or alluded to.

Re: who are the people?
Not sure what you are asking? Do you want me to go around and find the roughly 13k people with a wage at or below fed minimum for you? Or are you asking about jobs and not people and would like me to find a job posting somewhere that is offering a job starting at minimum wage?

*why don't they simply go get one of the many available jobs that pay more?*
I dont know? I am not in that group and cannot really speak for them. I'd imagine people have different circumstances than you or I have that will inform their decisions for their specific situation.


Does it include 12yo.... No, it does not. It only includes people 16years old and older. That is a good point though! The numbers are probably under-representative in that case. Do you have any numbers you can share regarding wages for workers under 16yo?

I didn’t misconstrue anything; you just weren’t clear. You mentioned federal minimum wage twice in the paragraph about Oklahoma; then, in another paragraph, you switched to all “South” workers at “wages at or below minimum” without specifying which minimum. Once you jumped topic from Oklahoma to the “South”, I can no longer make assumptions about which assumptions continue and which don’t.

Also, you stated “I don't have OK specific numbers handy” in the first of these two posts, followed by “I provided the numbers by people for Oklahoma” in the most recent. Plus, you say Florida isn’t pertinent to the conversation when YOUR post brought Florida (and many other places) into the conversation.

The reason my question is important is to have a basic understanding of the data. I can make the same set of data say two (or more) completely different things. For all I know, the 1.4% of people in Oklahoma making below minimum wage are making $2.13/hr (below minimum wage), plus tips (which will get them over minimum wage). No links to the dataset used, so who knows what it means or implies. Maybe there are some kids making minimum wage out in the panhandle or somewhere. That’s what I was trying to determine from your data. I just can’t find any evidence in of it in OKC.

[Dr Beard Face]

Who are the 1.4% of people in Oklahoma making less than $7.25/hr? Does that include the tipped workers (who make up the difference in tips)? Does this include the 12 y/o working on the farm for mom and dad?

I did a quick search on Indeed and ZipRecruiter and couldn't find any that low (lowest I could find is $10/hr... but I do know of jobs starting at $9/hr for 16 y/o with absolutely no work experience). And if someone really makes $7.25/hr, why don't they simply go get one of the many available jobs that pay more?

Mixing all sorts of minimum wages into the discussion really muddies the water. The minimum wage is Florida is higher than that in Oklahoma... so I am not sure what to make of the rest of your post.

Finding a job isn't that simple. When I was last looking I had over 100 applications through indeed alone, indeed also shows you how many of your applications were even looked at. under 20% were looked at, I got 3 calls, one was a mass interview with 30 people in a position that definitely sounded like it was going to take advantage of the people who made it through to get the job. My friend with her Masters degree just spent the last 8 months trying to find something, over 70 applications, less than 10 interviews, and now she just landed something two days ago. It's not like you can actually walk in and get hired like we could in the 1900s. I only found my current spot because I was recommended by a friend. Job hunting is a complete nightmare these years. So many people have to take minimum wage because they can't wait around 8 months to find the right spot. I lost multiple employees in the past because they had a second or third child and could no longer afford to work due to child care costs. They made over $13 an hour in 2018. All of these breakdowns are for if your life is perfectly fine outside of being poor, but that's not reality for most people. Medical events can bankrupt anyone, or like me, cause someone to pay hundreds a month for the ability to learn nothing of what caused your issue and see a dr for less than 5 total minutes in 3 days.

[fortpatches]

I didn’t misconstrue anything; you just weren’t clear. You mentioned federal minimum wage twice in the paragraph about Oklahoma; then, in another paragraph, you switched to all “South” workers at “wages at or below minimum” without specifying which minimum. Once you jumped topic from Oklahoma to the “South”, I can no longer make assumptions about which assumptions continue and which don’t.

Also, you stated “I don't have OK specific numbers handy” in the first of these two posts, followed by “I provided the numbers by people for Oklahoma” in the most recent. Plus, you say Florida isn’t pertinent to the conversation when YOUR post brought Florida (and many other places) into the conversation.

The reason my question is important is to have a basic understanding of the data. I can make the same set of data say two (or more) completely different things. For all I know, the 1.4% of people in Oklahoma making below minimum wage are making $2.13/hr (below minimum wage), plus tips (which will get them over minimum wage). No links to the dataset used, so who knows what it means or implies. Maybe there are some kids making minimum wage out in the panhandle or somewhere. That’s what I was trying to determine from your data. I just can’t find any evidence in of it in OKC.

I used bls.gov, dol.gov, and the CPS surveys on census.gov. A quick search shows the numbers I found on those sites have been cited in other posts such as those made by Oklahoma Business Voice and Oklahoma Policy Institute.

As I said, I apologize for not being more explicit in stating that "minimum wage" as used throughout my entire post always referred to "Federal Minimum wage". And just to be extra clear, when I referred to "at or below minimum", that should be read as "at or below the Federal minimum wage" and "Federal Minimum wage" should be read as "the current Federal Minimum wage at the time of this comment (in the amount of $7.25 per hour before taxes), as set out in in law by the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2007 of the supplemental appropriation bill (H.R. 2206) signed by President Bush on May 25, 2007".

I provided OK specific numbers as related to federal minimum wage and some nation-wide numbers related to federal minimum wage. It is hard to tell if certain numbers are significant when viewed in isolation - as you said you can "make the same set of data say two (or more) completely different things." In an effort to be more transparent, I included national numbers that compared groups of states, at least one group of which included Florida, but I did not specifically compare any individual state against Oklahoma. Nor did I use any state and an example that Oklahoma should/ should not follow. That specific example comparing Florida state wages was entirely concocted and brough up by YOUR post. My comments had yet to mention State Minimum wages at that time.

ETA: Also, I never claimed you misconstrued anything. I thanked you for pointing out how someone could misconstrue my post and acknowledged that I could have been more clear. You have twice now indicated that I could have been more clear, and I have agreed with you multiple times at this point. Would you like me to edit my prior post? If so, I would be happy to accommodate.

[GaryOKC6]

Assuming a male, in OKC, less than 25 years old:
Currently, assuming are working that $15/hr full time and that they have an angel of a boss that schedules around your classes:
$15/hr = $31.2k/yr =~$26k net

For someone making $15/hr there are 59 rentals in OKC available at $722/mo or less. (Only 47 with one or more bedrooms and only 1 with more than 1 bedroom). There are only 9 rentals available in OKC less than $600.
That leaves you with about $1444/month.

Water = $50
Electric = $120
Internet = $50
Phone = $50
That leaves you with ~$1175/month.

Assuming you take the minimum hours for a full-time student, at OSU-OKC, and you are getting an Associate's degree. That is $5,218.80/yr in Tuition, Books, and Fees. So, if you can setup a payment plan to pay evenly throughout the year, that's about $434/month.

That leaves you with ~$741/month

The used cars within 50miles of my zip code and less than 100k miles with $0 down and financed for up to 5 years, at $200/month or less only shows 35 cars.
Premiums for minimum coverage in OK on average for 20year old ~$110/mo (almost twice that if you are 18 years old).
Putting aside $50/mo for maintenance.
My personal average monthly fuel cost since I bought my car is $106/mo.

That leaves ~$275/mo.

Oklahomans pay an average of $230 per month, or $2,756 per year on non-restaurant food and beverages.

So that leaves $45/month to save, dining out at restaurants with friends or family, having Avocado Toast or fancy Starbucks drinks. Or for a streaming service. Or household furnishings. Buying Kitchen utensils. Buying personal hygiene products. Maybe for buying paper towels or toilet paper. Or replacing clothing or shoes. Maybe getting a haircut to look presentable.

So, if you are one of the ... lucky(?) people to buy one of the 35 cheapest cars and one or the 47 cheapest rentals in OKC, you could probably just eeeek by on $15/hr covering your schooling at a cheap community college assuming you have no debt at all at this time, other than your car. And are at least 20 years old.

I was in my 20's then and rode a motorcycle, a 1973 Yamaha 650. I rode in the snow and rain as well. You did not mention the part where I showed up a little early every day and took responsibility for my work. I worked overtime every chance I got. It did not take too long for my supervisor to notice. My work ethic combined with the confidence that my education gave me helped me move up fairly quick. I saw the guys that worked in the air conditioning and never got dirty and said to myself, I want that job. Well, I got it and kept going. 10 years later I was working for the CEO of a company with 300 employees.