NFL in OKC

[rezman]

All this talk that's been going on about having an NFL team here in Okc should be just that. ... Talk.

There are too many unfinished projects around town that need to be completed, in addition to the rest of the MAPS projects that were promised. And after all that is finished, this city needs to concentrate on roads and infrastructure before it tries to do anything else to be a "big league city"

[SoonerDave]

if the nfl played at owen field they would sell beer and FYI they already sell beer in the club level .. and in the suites

Boulder, heard about this, but are you certain *OU* is the one selling it, or is it the Touchdown Club?

I'm not sure OU, as an entity, legally has the option to sell beer at events like that. I remember the big stink a few years ago when folks who rented some of the new east deck suites under the belief OU would be selling alcohol, only to find out they'd be required to bring in their own private stock. Lawsuits were threatened, law was cited, it was a mess. But the general alcohol sales issue has arisen before and I don't think it was 100% an arbitrary decision on OU's part. I remember *years* ago, back in the Big 8 days, hearing about, for example, Colorado selling beer at their games forever, why didn't OU, and the response was always "State law won't let 'em..." and the requirement for suite renters to bring in their own stash seemed to mesh with that....although there was some legend about Molly Boren being involved in it, too.

Anyway, if one of our resident legal beagles could clarify this, I'd be curious.

[Jersey Boss]

if the nfl played at owen field they would sell beer and FYI they already sell beer in the club level .. and in the suites

From 2003:

OU Special Events Catering initially catered beer for the first two home football games, Annis said.
However, an incident occurred in the club level at the first home game against North Texas that resulted in banning alcohol on the club level. After the second game, the Athletic Department also requested that the caterer no longer provide beer to the suite-holders.
"We provide the food, and we were providing the beer on the suite level," Annis said. "With the change in university policy, it was decided that we would continue with the food but that we would no longer sell beer on that level."
During the first two games when OU was catering beer to suites, the suite-holders were not allowed to bring their own beer, but only liquor and wine, said suite-holder Stan Deardeuff. It was not until after the caterer stopped providing beer to suites that suite-holders were allowed to bring their own beer, as well as liquor and wine, Deardeuff said.
If suite-holders decide to provide their own alcohol, the alcohol must be brought up to the suite the Friday prior to the game, Deardeuff said. If they choose to order alcohol from the third-party vendor, orders must be faxed in by 5 p.m. the Wednesday before the game. Suite-holders may also request a bartender, he said.
The alcohol controversy arose during the first home game, in which alcohol was available to club seat holders who donated a minimum of $1,000 on top of paying the season ticket prices of about $700 for their seats.
When it began to rain during the game, club members rushed the bar inside the club area and began to drink.
"They had people drinking too damn much, and they had some security problems," Deardeuff said. "They had some damage done."
After the incident, President David L. Boren announced that alcohol would no longer be sold in the stadium on game days.
On Sept. 22, OU Athletics Director Joe Castiglione issued a press release in which he took full responsibility for misleading club seat holders to believe that alcohol would be served on game day.
"The facts are clear," Castiglione said in a press release. "The athletics department administration had no authority to change the practice of several decades that no alcoholic beverages would be sold on game days in the stadium.

OUDaily.com | Fans still drink in stadium

Got anything newer that contradicts this article?

[BoulderSooner]

From 2003:

OU Special Events Catering initially catered beer for the first two home football games, Annis said.
However, an incident occurred in the club level at the first home game against North Texas that resulted in banning alcohol on the club level. After the second game, the Athletic Department also requested that the caterer no longer provide beer to the suite-holders.
"We provide the food, and we were providing the beer on the suite level," Annis said. "With the change in university policy, it was decided that we would continue with the food but that we would no longer sell beer on that level."
During the first two games when OU was catering beer to suites, the suite-holders were not allowed to bring their own beer, but only liquor and wine, said suite-holder Stan Deardeuff. It was not until after the caterer stopped providing beer to suites that suite-holders were allowed to bring their own beer, as well as liquor and wine, Deardeuff said.
If suite-holders decide to provide their own alcohol, the alcohol must be brought up to the suite the Friday prior to the game, Deardeuff said. If they choose to order alcohol from the third-party vendor, orders must be faxed in by 5 p.m. the Wednesday before the game. Suite-holders may also request a bartender, he said.
The alcohol controversy arose during the first home game, in which alcohol was available to club seat holders who donated a minimum of $1,000 on top of paying the season ticket prices of about $700 for their seats.
When it began to rain during the game, club members rushed the bar inside the club area and began to drink.
"They had people drinking too damn much, and they had some security problems," Deardeuff said. "They had some damage done."
After the incident, President David L. Boren announced that alcohol would no longer be sold in the stadium on game days.
On Sept. 22, OU Athletics Director Joe Castiglione issued a press release in which he took full responsibility for misleading club seat holders to believe that alcohol would be served on game day.
"The facts are clear," Castiglione said in a press release. "The athletics department administration had no authority to change the practice of several decades that no alcoholic beverages would be sold on game days in the stadium.

OUDaily.com | Fans still drink in stadium

Got anything newer that contradicts this article?

from this season ... they started selling beer in the club level again ..

and they started selling beer at the soonerclub basketball pregame at the LNC

[BoulderSooner]

Boulder, heard about this, but are you certain *OU* is the one selling it, or is it the Touchdown Club?

I'm not sure OU, as an entity, legally has the option to sell beer at events like that. I remember the big stink a few years ago when folks who rented some of the new east deck suites under the belief OU would be selling alcohol, only to find out they'd be required to bring in their own private stock. Lawsuits were threatened, law was cited, it was a mess. But the general alcohol sales issue has arisen before and I don't think it was 100% an arbitrary decision on OU's part. I remember *years* ago, back in the Big 8 days, hearing about, for example, Colorado selling beer at their games forever, why didn't OU, and the response was always "State law won't let 'em..." and the requirement for suite renters to bring in their own stash seemed to mesh with that....although there was some legend about Molly Boren being involved in it, too.

Anyway, if one of our resident legal beagles could clarify this, I'd be curious.

osu sells beer at their stadium on the club level also .. ou restarted it this season after several regents were at osu OU games the past 2 years in stillwater and then wonder why they sell beer on the club level and OU didn't ..

OU also sell beer/alcohol in the union for party's

[ou48A]

Not only logistical headaches, but a competitor for limited entertainment dollars. With the cost of OU tickets on par with some pro teams, I don't see OU agreeing to any arrangement that will impact their bottom line. If OU has a down season, they still have a captive audience. Bring in an alternative to a down OU team, you take a hit at the attendance. I believe OU would be cutting the baby in half. Why ruin a good thing they have going now?

I say this with a high degree of confidence I don’t think there will ever be a day when OU lets its stadium be the home venue for an NFL team.
The culture in Oklahoma for football is mostly about college football.

It’s going to be real interesting to see what happens to the fan support for the Thunder in a few years when the novelty of having an NBA franchise wears off and when players have aged and they are not winning nearly as much.
The Thunder would be hurt, perhaps seriously, if the price of oil crashes and stays low for an extended period of time.

[BoulderSooner]

this is the 7th year of the nba in OKC .. pretty sure the "novelty" is over

[Praedura]

this is the 7th year of the nba in OKC .. pretty sure the "novelty" is over

7th? The team relocated here in June or July of 2008. So it will be 5 years as of this summer.

[ou48A]

this is the 7th year of the nba in OKC .. pretty sure the "novelty" is over

I don’t think the extent of the novelty will really be known until the Thunder has a few poor seasons in a row.

[ou48A]

I could be wrong but I thought I had read somewhere that OSU was considering Beer sales at its football games next season that would be available to anyone over 21….If true, I hope the find a way to limit how many beers somebody can buy.

[BoulderSooner]

7th? The team relocated here in June or July of 2008. So it will be 5 years as of this summer.

plus 2 year of the hornets

[SoonerDave]

I'd still be interested to know from someone authoritative, such as an attorney, what the legal rule is for an entity like OU or OSU to sell beer/alcohol at sporting events. If someone else knows that alcohol has been sold at recent sporting events, then I'm certainly in no position to dispute that, but I also wonder if it is literally OU selling the beverage, or if its a "private entity" selling it within the confines of a restricted access club (or other similar legal construct) to make it permissible.

Borrowing a bit of a post from another thread, there's a bit of a legend at OU that some big alcohol/beer company approached OU about footing the cost for rebuilding/bowling the entire south endzone, provided that company would get beverage/promotion rights, but the alcohol rules made the notion a non-starter. I stress here, as I did there, that I hold this to be mostly urban legend, as I've never heard it confirmed from anyone other than a "friend of someone who overheard it at 31 Flavors last night..."

On the broader issue (regardless of legality) I tend to agree with ou48A that the likelihood of open beer sales at OU home games is next to nil. I don't have a dog in the fight (don't drink), but having been to a few professional arenas where it is allowed, I'd be just as happy if OU never chose to go down that path. And, frankly, I think they won't. I think the logistical hassles + wear/tear on the facilities would prove to be more than OU would want to get into.

[ou48A]

Starting at the age of 13 in 1971 I have attended exactly 260 OU football games and never once did I even think about drinking beer.
I am not going to say that people can’t drink responsibly but there are those who can’t or won’t and look at a football game as a reason to get drunk.

I have attended OU games in other stadiums that did sell beer….. I have seen several people puking all over the place, bloody fights and arrest……. I am just fine with the current OU stadium drinking policy and the goal of keeping it a family environment.

[MikeLucky]

Starting at the age of 13 in 1971 I have attended exactly 260 OU football games and never once did I even think about drinking beer.
I am not going to say that people can’t drink responsibly but there are those who can’t or won’t and look at a football game as a reason to get drunk.

I have attended OU games in other stadiums that did sell beer….. I have seen several people puking all over the place, bloody fights and arrest……. I am just fine with the current OU stadium drinking policy and the goal of keeping it a family environment.

This ^^^^^^^

I would be so very disappointed if OU started selling beer in the whole stadium. I mean it's not like the fans can't get plenty leading up to and after the game anyway. And, if you can't go 4 hours without getting blitzed, then that's just sad. I've never understood the point of having tickets to go see a live football game, then doing everything you can to drink so much that you can't even stand up, much less remember the game. Just don't get it...

[onthestrip]

I read something from Darren Rovell (ESPN's sports biz guru) about Minnesota, maybe Wisconsin, selling beer at football games last year. First, they said it brought in about $1million in revenue (thats why schools are interested). Second, school officials said they had fewer in game alcohol related incidents. They attriibuted it to the fact that fans werent "loading up" before the game and getting too drunk because they knew they could buy in the stadium. They also only had like 3 or 4 places to buy beer so it wasnt feasible for all fans to be able to buy a bunch of beer throughout the game.

I remember reading from Rovell about WVU bringing in about a million from there beer sales as well.

And as far as wanting to know the legal rule on an entity about OSU or OU selling alchohol...Im guessing A) its legal since OSU has been selling it in its club level since it opened and B) probably an institutional decision. I imagine if Boren wanted to, OU could sell alchol at games.

[Hawk405359]

I don’t think the extent of the novelty will really be known until the Thunder has a few poor seasons in a row.

Bingo.

The first two years of the Hornets were a novelty, when we got our own team, we got to ride the euphoria of having a real OKC pro sports team, which helped when they weren't very good. Then they got good before that ever wore off. Now we're showing that we can support a good team, well whoopie, that's easy. Any championship team will get support.

When Durant and/or Westbrook leaves, when the team starts doing poorly and an NBA title isn't even in the discussion? That's when a fanbase is really tested and determined. We haven't had to support a bad NBA team yet that didn't have the novelty of being new, but the Thunder won't be good forever. That's the real test of a viability of a market just getting to the pro sports level.

[ou48A]

This ^^^^^^^

I would be so very disappointed if OU started selling beer in the whole stadium. I mean it's not like the fans can't get plenty leading up to and after the game anyway. And, if you can't go 4 hours without getting blitzed, then that's just sad. I've never understood the point of having tickets to go see a live football game, then doing everything you can to drink so much that you can't even stand up, much less remember the game. Just don't get it...

I think you and other likeminded people can rest assured that the OU football drinking policy will not change as long as Boren is around to have a voice in what goes on at OU.

[ou48A]

Bingo.

The first two years of the Hornets were a novelty, when we got our own team, we got to ride the euphoria of having a real OKC pro sports team, which helped when they weren't very good. Then they got good before that ever wore off. Now we're showing that we can support a good team, well whoopie, that's easy. Any championship team will get support.

When Durant and/or Westbrook leaves, when the team starts doing poorly and an NBA title isn't even in the discussion? That's when a fanbase is really tested and determined. We haven't had to support a bad NBA team yet that didn't have the novelty of being new, but the Thunder won't be good forever. That's the real test of a viability of a market just getting to the pro sports level.

To your point….. During the 1990’s during the very worst stretch of OU football in history OU’s average attendance never dropped below the 69,000 mark in a roughly 75,000 seat stadium. That’s standing the test of time and shows what our culture is. Today there is a lengthy waiting list to buy OU season tickets.

How hard is it to by a Thunder season ticket during these better times? I don’t know.

[BrettM2]

How hard is it to by a Thunder season ticket during these better times? I don’t know.

There's a waiting list, several years long at this point. Whether it remains, we'll have to see. It's a good sign right now, though, that there are so many people who want to get them. We'll see if CHK's struggles will open up a bit more supply in the coming years or if they'll keep their huge blocs of seats.

[Jersey Boss]

This ^^^^^^^

I would be so very disappointed if OU started selling beer in the whole stadium. I mean it's not like the fans can't get plenty leading up to and after the game anyway. And, if you can't go 4 hours without getting blitzed, then that's just sad. I've never understood the point of having tickets to go see a live football game, then doing everything you can to drink so much that you can't even stand up, much less remember the game. Just don't get it...

The overwhelming majority of legal drinkers do not drink till they can't stand up. Having a cold one or two during the game is not "getting blitzed". The ones you are referring to do it pre-game or sneak in a boot bottle. It seems like class warfare when the only ones who can enjoy a cold one are "Joe Six House" while "Joe Six Pack" is only afforded watered down sodas or overpriced water.
Boren though will allow wine spritzers before beer, IMHO.

[zookeeper]

Boren though will allow wine spritzers before beer, IMHO.

I have got to admit I laughed out loud and I don't ever do that at the computer.

[BoulderSooner]

I think you and other likeminded people can rest assured that the OU football drinking policy will not change as long as Boren is around to have a voice in what goes on at OU.

again it already changed some this year .. in both the football games and at the LNC pregame ... it very well could change in the future

[SoonerDave]

To your point….. During the 1990’s during the very worst stretch of OU football in history OU’s average attendance never dropped below the 69,000 mark in a roughly 75,000 seat stadium. That’s standing the test of time and shows what our culture is. Today there is a lengthy waiting list to buy OU season tickets.

How hard is it to by a Thunder season ticket during these better times? I don’t know.

I know that the "official" attendance during those years was around 69K, but having attended a few of those games I can assure you there were plenty of times when there was nowhere near that number. There was one game in particular - I wish I could remember the opponent, but I can't - but the memory of the crowd (or lack thereof) was so incredibly vivid. I got a ticket outside the gate for $5, and sat alone in a chairback seat on the 50 yardline in the west upper deck, and looked around a stadium with the endzones nearly vacant, and a crowd that looked and sounded more like a high school crowd. As a Sooner fan since I was a little kid, it was heartbreaking to see how the program had disintegrated at that time.

As far as the OU season ticket waiting list goes...well, that's a thing that's grown to one of mythic proportions. Yeah, there's a season ticket list, and its been around for years. The majority of those "waiting" on the list, however, include folks who used to be on and want to rotate to better seats, or involve multiple entries from the same family or groups, and so on, such that the "real" wait isn't quite as forboding as it might seem. The last time I checked a (relatively) modest contribution to the Sooner Club can still get you season tickets immediately, so if one were of a mind and had the $ resources to get season tickets, they're available.

Considering that you can routinely pick up game-day tickets for well under face value, I've felt for a long time that the "season ticket waiting list" was a bit of a red herring in terms of measuring demand. Yeah, its there, but in terms of actual, real individuals teeming at the gate for tickets....not so much.

All that is to say that the point of the Thunder's success long term as it relates to future ticket sales is a point very well taken. When KD's and/or RW's contract(s) are up, granted several years down the road, things locally could change quite a bit. We'll see. And how all this, ultimately ties to the difficulty in supporting an NFL franchise, with more home dates and (much) higher tickets, and higher parking costs...the math isn't hard to do.

[ou48A]

I know that the "official" attendance during those years was around 69K, but having attended a few of those games I can assure you there were plenty of times when there was nowhere near that number. There was one game in particular - I wish I could remember the opponent, but I can't - but the memory of the crowd (or lack thereof) was so incredibly vivid. I got a ticket outside the gate for $5, and sat alone in a chairback seat on the 50 yardline in the west upper deck, and looked around a stadium with the endzones nearly vacant, and a crowd that looked and sounded more like a high school crowd. As a Sooner fan since I was a little kid, it was heartbreaking to see how the program had disintegrated at that time.

As far as the OU season ticket waiting list goes...well, that's a thing that's grown to one of mythic proportions. Yeah, there's a season ticket list, and its been around for years. The majority of those "waiting" on the list, however, include folks who used to be on and want to rotate to better seats, or involve multiple entries from the same family or groups, and so on, such that the "real" wait isn't quite as forboding as it might seem. The last time I checked a (relatively) modest contribution to the Sooner Club can still get you season tickets immediately, so if one were of a mind and had the $ resources to get season tickets, they're available.

Considering that you can routinely pick up game-day tickets for well under face value, I've felt for a long time that the "season ticket waiting list" was a bit of a red herring in terms of measuring demand. Yeah, its there, but in terms of actual, real individuals teeming at the gate for tickets....not so much.

All that is to say that the point of the Thunder's success long term as it relates to future ticket sales is a point very well taken. When KD's and/or RW's contract(s) are up, granted several years down the road, things locally could change quite a bit. We'll see. And how all this, ultimately ties to the difficulty in supporting an NFL franchise, with more home dates and (much) higher tickets, and higher parking costs...the math isn't hard to do.

Having personally attended every home game until the final snap during the 90’s I also know that there were plenty of times when there was nowhere near the 69,000. But 69,000 was the announce average attendances for a signal season at its very worst.

The game that you are having trouble remembering could have been the 1997 OU- A&M game that was played at night in about 15 degree weather. I was one of about 3000 to 4000 fans who stayed until the very end. It was the worst OU crowd I have ever seen.

According to radio interviews done by Joe C this past summer there are about 20,000 request for OU season tickets on the waiting list. It is not normally difficult to buy a cheap ticket to about 90% of home games. You can move up the list and get tickets by making a $100 tax deductible donation to the Sooner Club. However you would get a lot better seating location by donating more.

In spite of the official waiting list I do not feel that it justifies a major stadium expansion.
OU will add a small amount of stadium capacity when they rebuild its press box.

[SoonerDave]

Having personally attended every home game until the final snap during the 90’s I also know that there were plenty of times when there was nowhere near the 69,000. But 69,000 was the announce average attendances for a signal season at its very worst.

The game that you are having trouble remembering could have been the 1997 OU- A&M game that was played at night in about 15 degree weather. I was one of about 3000 to 4000 fans who stayed until the very end. It was the worst OU crowd I have ever seen.

The game I'm remembering was a day game. I know I was not at that frozen A&M debacle.

According to radio interviews done by Joe C this past summer there are about 20,000 request for OU season tickets on the waiting list. It is not normally difficult to buy a cheap ticket to about 90% of home games. You can move up the list and get tickets by making a $100 tax deductible donation to the Sooner Club. However you would get a lot better seating location by donating more.

In spite of the official waiting list I do not feel that it justifies a major stadium expansion.
OU will add a small amount of stadium capacity when they rebuild its press box.

Yeah, I've been buying cheap tickets on game day for the last 25 years, and I've paid more than face exactly once - 2000 Nebraska - so that's why I've always kinda looked at the "waiting list" with a jaundiced eye. There aren't 20K people down there every game day buying up every ticket in existence. Agree completely that the "waiting list" doesn't begin to justify any big expansion.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread. Just saying (and in an indirect way agreeing) that the success of the team on the field plays no small part in determining its financial success as the ticket price increases, and that's a "bumpy road" we've not yet had to trod with the Thunder. Back when the only thing in OKC was the 89ers, ol' Bing and Patty Cox Hampton became masterful marketeers of "entertainment baseball" as a family outing rather than focusing on the wins and losses. And it worked. But that's much harder to do with a real, top-level pro sports franchise.

Still no takers on the legality of OU selling alcohol at OMS during home games?? Surely someone out there knows for sure..