OKC Public Schools

[OSUFan]

This is very good news because of the past several Oklahoma City Public Schools Superintendents Rob Neu has been by far the worst for the class room…. This is the consensus opinion of several long time OKC teachers.

He wasn't here long enough to even know really. I don't have a strong opinion on him either way but I don't think he is the worst of the recent ones and I don't think he was here long enough to make much of an impact in the classroom good or bad.

[ou48A]

He wasn't here long enough to even know really. I don't have a strong opinion on him either way but I don't think he is the worst of the recent ones and I don't think he was here long enough to make much of an impact in the classroom good or bad.

Believe me, He was their plenty long enough to make a very bad impression on most from nearly the very start….
Besides what was reported in the local media there were lots of unreported things that most in the public don’t know about and probably never will.
Virtually the entire district besides the board will feel this is a very good day for the district. That should tell you a lot!

[Pete]

^

They think that every time someone leaves, are all optimistic when they hire someone new, then end up chasing them off too. Repeat, ad nauseum.

[ou48A]

Have the teachers ever liked any superintendent?

They may not have agreed with every decision but there have been many who have generally liked certain superintendents.
Nue without doubt was the most disliked and it’s probably fair to say the most hated, at least in memory.

It’s also fair to say that a small but very vocal segment of teachers will complain about anything and everything no matter who leads them.

[OSUFan]

Believe me, He was their plenty long enough to make a very bad impression on most from nearly the very start….
Besides what was reported in the local media there were lots of unreported things that most in the public don’t know about and probably never will.
Virtually the entire district besides the board will feel this is a very good day for the district. That should tell you a lot!

I believe you. I'm just saying I'm not sure he changed much yet as far as the day-to-day classroom. I'm married to an OKC teacher and she didn't have a great opinion on the guy. However, I can't think of much he actually did that changed what she did in the classroom over the past year.

Again, not saying this is good or bad (although I do think the revolving door is awful). I'm just saying from what I could tell he hadn't changed much of what was actually happening in the classroom.

[turnpup]

A colleague of mine and I were discussing this and he mentioned that the average tenure of school superintendents *nationwide* is only 18 months. So it's apparently not just an Oklahoma problem.

[Pete]

They may not have agreed with every decision but there have been many who have generally liked certain superintendents.
Nue without doubt was the most disliked and it’s probably fair to say the most hated, at least in memory.

It’s also fair to say that a small but very vocal segment of teachers will complain about anything and everything no matter who leads them.

They always dislike the current person the most.

[ou48A]

^

They think that every time someone leaves, are all optimistic when they hire someone new, then end up chasing them off too. Repeat, ad nauseum.

Your right and that’s why IMHO the mold needs to be broken and community / state involvement is needed to make sure they find a very tough person who has high integrity!

The person needs to come from our community/state and be someone who will not cut and run from a fight. They need to clean up the cronyism, corruption, waste and horrible discipline / criminal behavior in the class rooms. This alone would keep some good teachers from leaving the district for out of state locations.

[ou48A]

They always dislike the current person the most.

I don’t think that's really fair to say about the older teachers who pretty well recognize the situation for what it really is. Most of the teachers I know are mid 50’s + and have husbands making 6 figures.....Or are otherwise pretty secure in life

[Zuplar]

A colleague of mine and I were discussing this and he mentioned that the average tenure of school superintendents *nationwide* is only 18 months. So it's apparently not just an Oklahoma problem.

Very interesting, I did not know that. I know Moore's superintendent seems to be well liked by parents and teachers. My neighbor was a teacher and always had nice things to say about Dr. Romines. I've personally spoke with him too and found him to be very easy to talk, as well as found out he only lives about a mile down the road from me. I guess when you find a good one you need to work to keep them.

[DoctorTaco]

Believe me, He was their plenty long enough to make a very bad impression on most from nearly the very start….
Besides what was reported in the local media there were lots of unreported things that most in the public don’t know about and probably never will.
Virtually the entire district besides the board will feel this is a very good day for the district. That should tell you a lot!

The only issue I am aware of is his focus on changing the suspension-heavy culture of OKCPS. I know that a lot of teachers felt like they suddenly couldn't discipline anyone. But on this point Neu was completely on the right side of the issue. OKCPS so disproportionately suspended black students that it almost lead to Federal involvment as a civil rights issue. I know that the teacher's feel handcuffed, but maybe they should learn some alternate interventions?

Not an educator, I know. But if other urban districts can get away with a lower suspension rate, so can OKCPS, in spite of what the teachers say. Many of them (the teachers) have simply been doing it the suspension-heavy way for so long they can't imagine anything different. Kind of like a parent who refuses to believe there is any other way to instill discipline in a child without spanking (but I digress)

[Pete]

Considering the poor state of our schools, I'm not so sure we should be relying on the opinion of people who have little outside perspective.

Then, when an outsider is brought in because big changes are needed, the troops rally against them and force them out.

School superintendents are like coaches: easy to blame and fire when things aren't going well instead of fixing underlying problems that no one really wants to take on, despite what they say in public.

[ou48A]

The only issue I am aware of is his focus on changing the suspension-heavy culture of OKCPS. I know that a lot of teachers felt like they suddenly couldn't discipline anyone. But on this point Neu was completely on the right side of the issue. OKCPS so disproportionately suspended black students that it almost lead to Federal involvment as a civil rights issue. I know that the teacher's feel handcuffed, but maybe they should learn some alternate interventions?

Not an educator, I know. But if other urban districts can get away with a lower suspension rate, so can OKCPS, in spite of what the teachers say. Many of them (the teachers) have simply been doing it the suspension-heavy way for so long they can't imagine anything different. Kind of like a parent who refuses to believe there is any other way to instill discipline in a child without spanking (but I digress)

No.. Neu was completely on the wrong side of the discipline issue and there really isn’t any question about how bad it was.

From virtually all informed accounts from the class room on up though the different levels of administrators, how he handle the issue was an unmediated disaster!!!!!!

You can’t have criminals and others disrupting the classrooms going totally unpunished no matter what race they are or have race based quotas and expect even average results for the good kids who want to learn.

[corwin1968]

No.. Neu was completely on the wrong side of the discipline issue and there really isn’t any question about how bad it was.

From virtually all informed accounts from the class room on up though the different levels of administrators, how he handle the issue was an unmediated disaster!!!!!!

You can’t have criminals and others disrupting the classrooms going totally unpunished no matter what race they are or have race based quotas and expect even average results for the good kids who want to learn.

True, that was the general opinion.

[Celebrator]

^

They think that every time someone leaves, are all optimistic when they hire someone new, then end up chasing them off too. Repeat, ad nauseum.

And sadly for our country, this is quite the same in most large urban districts. I witnessed it in my teaching career out of state as well.

[Eric]

There are those that buck the trend. Bartlesville's superintendent of 17+ years Gary Quinn just retired (health reasons shortened what may have been more years) and he was replaced (to everyone's delight apparently) by longtime administrator in the district Chuck McCauley. Quinn was considered to be one of the lowest paid superintendents in the state, yet remained at his post for quit some time, and to great success. There were things he did that people did not care for (as a leader always runs in to), but in general he was widely respected. After his retirement was announced there was great fear (considering what had been going on in other districts) that it would be a monumental task to replace him. McCauley did have the added benefit of serving as the interim while Quinn was on medical leave as well.

The distinguishing factor between this district and OKC has got to be the success of the district. For the same reason private schools can pay less, a job at a school that is performing well has got to lead to better tenure statistics across the board. Through three grades my daughter has only had the opportunity to be in a class of a new teacher one time (which she ended up in...unfortunately in my opinion but that's another story). So out of 9 potential teachers only 1 was new to the district the year my daughter was entering that grade. That seems pretty low to me. And we live in an extremely diverse elementary school district.

I know Bartlesville like other districts is fretting over the looming budget problems, but I think I understand that no teachers or admins will actually be let go in the current plan. No one will be replaced. It will hurt still.

[OSUFan]

I'm not sure comparing Bartlesville to OKC is exactly fair.

[Laramie]

Superintendents want their suspension numbers to be low; however, what are you willing to sacrifice to achieve that goal when most of the problems related to out-of-school suspensions are tied to the classroom. Big cities want their local school district(s) to be successful; because it's a feather in their cap for attracting new corporations, firms & businesses.

Principals & teachers can not run a school in which unruly children are allowed to disrupt the learning process within that building--all students suffer.

Oklahoma City Public Schools will have to make sacrifices. You have to get a handle on discipline through continuous training for teachers & support personnel on the process of how to handle these concerns. OKCPS have in-school suspension program; some schools have 'in-class' suspensions which is a holding place inside the in-school suspension center.

Now, does that mean 'long-term' suspension of students who are out-of-control (affects ADA) with the option of an alternative school setting until you can channel them back into the classroom or what. These are the questions we need to decide.

You can't save all children; discipline begins at home which is the sole responsibility of the parent(s). Good home discipline prepare students for school; it should filter over from home to school. The school should not be viewed by the community as a holding place for pupils while the parent(s) go to work (Teachers are not baby sitters for the parents or the community).

The biggest concern you hear from parents when children are suspended: "I have to work; we can't have him/her at home alone, what am I to do?" Again, preparation of the child begins at home.

[TexanOkie]

Neu statement: 'I have not resigned' | News OK

[Swake]

I'm not sure comparing Bartlesville to OKC is exactly fair.

Bartlesville is not the same thing at all as the inner city districts. The only comparable districts to OKC are Tulsa and maybe Lawton or Putnam City. Tulsa has a new superintendent, Dr Deborah Gist, she's Tulsa's 3rd superintendent in the last 10 years. Overall, I actually think Tulsa's a pretty good district. Gist came from Rhode Island and seems impressive so far. Dr Keith Ballard before her was in the job for six years and retired to teach at OSU-Tulsa.

TPS' troubles with test scores are more related to the facts that 87% of students live in poverty and almost 20% are English Language Learning students than any real institutional failures. I would assume that OKC's numbers and challenges are very similar.

Bartlesville is going to be more like Jenks which has only the second superintendent in almost 30 years. The newish superintendent, Stacy Butterfield, has been superintendent only since 2013 but has been at Jenks since she started as a classroom teacher more than 25 years ago. She replaced Dr Kirby Lehman who was superintendent at Jenks for 23 years. I really thought Lehman was going to run for state superintendent, but I strongly suspect he was the force behind Joy Hofmeister taking down Barresi. Hofmeister is from Jenks and was the head of the Jenks Public Schools Foundation, her son graduated from Jenks the same year as my daughter.

[Eric]

My point really was that they were hiring a known quantity. As opposed to going outside the district. Bartlesville runs a pretty tight budget, and is at least generally more diverse than most of the bedroom communities (no-where near what OKC/Tulsa are obviously).

I think generally Bartlesville schools hit above their ability. They are extremely focused and really could give a rats behind about sports. The community is pretty well off but no where near a Jenks/Bixby/Edmond/Norman. And less so since ConocoPhillips moved to Houston.

[Laramie]

I'm not sure comparing Bartlesville to OKC is exactly fair.

Good point!

Bartlesville is a much smaller district than OKCPS. Bartlesville has an enrollment of 6,000 pupils to the state's largest district (OKCPS) that has a total enrollment of 41,000.

A city, similar in size to OKC (620,000) is Memphis (655,000); Memphis has over 100,000 pupils enrolled in their inner city schools.

It will be a difficult sell; however Oklahoma needs to do something like provide incentives to consolidate school district to trim the high administrative cost incurred with having all of these school districts.

27th Oregon - 4,028,977 (258 school districts)
28th Oklahoma - 3,911,338 (578 school districts)
29th Connecticut - 3,590,886 (166 school districts)

Oklahoma is top administrative heavy with all of these districts.

[turnpup]

To be fair, a lot of the issues with the perceived need for changes to suspensions came from the OCR (Office for Civil Rights). They cracked down nationwide on the racial disparities and urged large, urban districts to review and revise their policies in an attempt to fix the problem. So whatever Neu did (right or wrong...I have no personal opinion of him) was likely to have been responsive to the OCR.

[krisb]

I do not have an insider's perspective, but as an OKCPS parent I can say that the district administration needed an overhaul and Neu's emphasis on discipline reform and learner first initiatives was right on. It seems a good percentage welcomed his changes because they recognize the importance of the teacher-student relationship. The others seem to be jaded and burnt out and were ineffective teachers before he arrived.

[corwin1968]

I do not have an insider's perspective, but as an OKCPS parent I can say that the district administration needed an overhaul and Neu's emphasis on discipline reform and learner first initiatives was right on. It seems a good percentage welcomed his changes because they recognize the importance of the teacher-student relationship. The others seem to be jaded and burnt out and were ineffective teachers before he arrived.

This is painting with a broad brush.

I don't know much about Neu's curriculum initiatives but my perception was that the fact he was actually building a curriculum department for the district was a positive thing. The discipline issue is where he lost many excellent teachers. There was a disconnect between what Neu claimed to have told building administrators and what building administrators claimed he told them. All teachers know is that after Neu announced his initiative, a student pretty much had to commit a felony to get them out their class. Teachers tended to believe the building administrators' version of events rather than Neu's.

The rumor is that Neu leaves OKC on Thursday to travel "home" to Washington and then he returns to OKC on Monday, effectively working a 3-day week. Plus the district is rumored to pay for these flights. I have no idea how much of this is fact. Also, the union has been waging a smear campaign against Neu for quite some time.

I personally witnessed Neu telling a large group of largely hispanic students that as a demonstration of his commitment to them and OKCPS, he was going to learn to speak Spanish. I wonder how his Spanish lessons are coming?