Electric Vehicles

[BoulderSooner]

Dp

15 min to stop and get gas???? under 10 and closer to 5 ..

[jccouger]

15 min to stop and get gas???? under 10 and closer to 5 ..

There's also variance in altering your route to and from the gas station on some of those stops. 15 might be a stretch, 10 is probably average.

Hell, its gotten to the point where just getting through the prompt of receipt/no receipt , select grade, insert card and remove quickly, wait not that quickly!, enter zip code, car wash? Takes over a minute by itself.

[catch22]

There's also variance in altering your route to and from the gas station on some of those stops. 15 might be a stretch, 10 is probably average.

Hell, its gotten to the point where just getting through the prompt of receipt/no receipt , select grade, insert card and remove quickly, wait not that quickly!, enter zip code, car wash? Takes over a minute by itself.

“Please see cashier” nope, driving to the next gas station!

[shawnw]

They don’t provide enough amperage to charge the batteries efficiently. The roof space of a Tesla has enough to probably reliable charge an iPad or a mobile battery bank.

There's a video out there of someone making bike trailers with full sized solar panels to perpetually charge their ebike and it ended up being three panels, each on a trailer, daisy-chained together, in order to accomplish the goal. If that gives you any indication about the viability of doing it with a car.




(also I have a portable battery with a solar panel on it and it takes an entire day to charge the battery that way if not more)

[Midtowner]

What non-electric car has a 1000 mile range tho? Most cars are 500 or less (SUVs like 300).

Best I know is the Lucid Touring at 516 miles. Up to 1,050hp though.. so there's that.

https://www.lucidmotors.com/air/configure

I've got a nice ICE. It's paid for. It does have >100,000 miles on it, and with me having to drive to hearings in places like Cheyenne and Idabel, I tack on some miles. I've been looking at cars with ~300 mile ranges. I've gone to the Tesla showroom to check their cars out. Very functional. I did appreciate that they have an app which automatically tells you where you need to recharge on long trips. I imagine in the future, it might even reserve chargers for you as there has been some movement on dealing with customers who overstay their welcomes at chargers, or at dealing with ICE users who park at chargers just to block them. I don't do a lot of out of state travel, but giving up a little time in order to not pay the exorbitant cost of fuel seems a worthy trade off.

I also have rooftop solar and on many days, like yesterday, I exported a net 50kWh and on average, except for in December, I've been a big exporter. I'd rather use that power to fuel my car since I've already paid for the production.

[Pete]

Think of all the time you save during the year not having to stop every single week to get gas. Once a week 15 minutes at a time to refuel your car = 13 hours a year at gas stations.

Not to even mention the savings in money from fuel & maintenance.

That tradeoff really isn't worth adding an hour or 2 on a a few long road trip when you need to stop and eat, use the restroom or just unwind from road stress anyway? Seems like you are weighing the long travel inconvenience too heavily. Unless of course if you make long distance travel trips very often.

Also if you haven't test driven an electric car I'd recommend doing so. The power in acceleration is mind opening.

The jury is still out on the maintenance savings, considering all batteries degrade over time. I've owned a Lexus for 19 years and spent almost no money on it other than periodic cheap oil changes.

Also, the huge value drop of an electric vehicle has to be factored into the cost of ownership.

When you are a one-car household like mine, having to find and wait for an electric charging staying on long trips is a huge hassle. It's not just a matter of the wait, it's having to plan every bit of your trip around where you are going to recharge and stressing out about getting to the next station.

I will eventually get an electric car, but am waiting for this rapidly evolving tech to advance a bit more. I'm darn glad I didn't buy that electric Jaguar that won all types of awards a few years ago, as it is way behind the times now and the resale is horrible.

[shawnw]

Yeah but no oil changes, failed gaskets, etc (maintenace wise)

[Pete]

Yeah but no oil changes, failed gaskets, etc (maintenace wise)

Oil changes are less than $100 / year and I've never had any other type of maintenance other than tires and brakes (which would also have to be maintained on an electric car) in 19 years.

I've done the math. At this point in time, a purely electric car would be far more expensive for me, especially when you consider the purchase price premium vs an ICE car and the massive hit you take at resale.

I tend to keep my cars for a long time, and in my personal situation I am just going to continue to drive my almost free current car and wait for things to evolve a bit more.

I would give it stronger consideration if I had a second car.

[TheTravellers]

The jury is still out on the maintenance savings, considering all batteries degrade over time. I've owned a Lexus for 19 years and spent almost no money on it other than periodic cheap oil changes.

Also, the huge value drop of an electric vehicle has to be factored into the cost of ownership.

When you are a one-car household like mine, having to find and wait for an electric charging staying on long trips is a huge hassle. It's not just a matter of the wait, it's having to plan every bit of your trip around where you are going to recharge and stressing out about getting to the next station.

I will eventually get an electric car, but am waiting for this rapidly evolving tech to advance a bit more. I'm darn glad I didn't buy that electric Jaguar that won all types of awards a few years ago, as it is way behind the times now and the resale is horrible.

As I stated before, my MINI's battery is supposed to last ~21 years, it's based on an older style that was used in the i3, haven't actually looked up yet when they started using it to see how long it's lasted so far (I've got another 20.5 years to go before I have anecdotal evidence of my own).

You got lucky with your Lexus, my 2007 Honda Civic had probably a dozen class-action suits and recalls, plus all kinds of little things that broke. But there are *always* oil, coolant, brake, transmission fluid additions/changes for *any* ICE vehicle, not to mention brake pad replacement (or disc resurfacing/replacement). Wife has had to have her ignition coils replaced (2003 Honda), so there are those odd things that happen too. My MINI's maintenance is *literally* add coolant and windshield washer fluid if low - that's it.

As far as stressing out over charging on long trips, there are plenty of level 3 chargers along the interstate system so that you really don't have to stress. Also, apps (not just Tesla's) that tell you where chargers are located, distance to each, etc. let you plan your trip, taking that into consideration.

As far as resale value, I drive all my cars until the wheels fall off (or they get totaled, as has happened twice, neither of them was my fault ), so I'll probably drive the MINI until it dies. Plan on taking it to Dallas to see Roxy Music in Sep, and already know where the chargers are (the MINI has a range of only about 120 miles, so I have to charge more often than most).

[TheTravellers]

Oil changes are less than $100 / year and I've never had any other type of maintenance other than tires and brakes (which would also have to be maintained on an electric car) in 19 years.

I've done the math. At this point in time, a purely electric car would be far more expensive for me, especially when you consider the purchase price premium vs an ICE car and the massive hit you take at resale.

I tend to keep my cars for a long time, and in my personal situation I am just going to continue to drive my almost free current car and wait for things to evolve a bit more.

I would give it stronger consideration if I had a second car.

Brake parts don't need replacing on an electric car for a ridiculously long time (if ever) because you (almost) never use them due to regenerative braking.

And you get a tax credit from the federal and state governments to help with the increased purchase price.

[Pete]

In 19 years, I've had one full brake job on my Lexus and pads two other times. Can't imagine it being much less frequent on an electric car.

At this point in time, the tax credits generally do not offset the price premium. And as I've said twice, the depreciation on electric cars is monumental and you have to factor that into ownership cost. And complete battery replacement down the line would be far more costly than any type of ICE service or repair.


In terms of products, I am very much an innovator. I had a home PC and laserdisc player before anyone I know; same with a plasma TV and lasik surgery.

But besides your home, a car is the most expensive purchase you'll ever make and thus getting too far out in front of rapidly-changing technology can be very costly.

By being smart about my car purchases (and taking great care of them) among other things, I was able to effectively retire in my early 50's. I'm not going to invest in the most rapidly depreciating asset known to man until I'm sure I'll want to keep it for at least 10 years. And IMO and in my situation, we are not there yet.

[Celebrator]

In 19 years, I've had one full brake job on my Lexus and pads two other times. Can't imagine it being much less frequent on an electric car.

At this point in time, the tax credits generally do not offset the price premium. And as I've said twice, the depreciation on electric cars is monumental and you have to factor that into ownership cost. And complete battery replacement down the line would be far more costly than any type of ICE service or repair.


In terms of products, I am very much an innovator. I had a laserdisc player before anyone I know; same with a plasma TV and lasic surgery.

But besides your home, a car is the most expensive purchase you'll ever make and thus getting too far out in front of rapidly-changing technology can be very costly.

By being smart about my car purchases (and taking great care of them) among other things, I was able to effectively retire in my early 50's. I'm not going to invest in the most rapidly depreciating asset known to man until I'm sure I'll want to keep it for at least 10 years. And IMO and in my situation, we are not there yet.

Very sage.

[gopokes88]

They don’t provide enough amperage to charge the batteries efficiently. The roof space of a Tesla has enough to probably reliable charge an iPad or a mobile battery bank.

Yeah this is the energy density problem renewables have.

There is no zero sum, everything in life has trade offs. The annoying thing (as an O&G/construction guy) about the greenies, is they don't seem to believe that or care.

The amount of land and raw materials it takes to generate the same power a nat gas or nuclear power plant can, renewables is exponentially greater needs land wise.

While renewables will continue to grow, this debate is coming soon. What really is the best use of farmland in Kansas? Growing food and running the electricity via nat gas plants OR covering it with wind and solar? Which shreds birds and causes erosion and soil degradation (solar).

Society is 9 meals away from total collapse.

[TheTravellers]

In 19 years, I've had one full brake job on my Lexus and pads two other times. Can't imagine it being much less frequent on an electric car.

At this point in time, the tax credits generally do not offset the price premium. And as I've said twice, the depreciation on electric cars is monumental and you have to factor that into ownership cost. And complete battery replacement down the line would be far more costly than any type of ICE service or repair.


In terms of products, I am very much an innovator. I had a home PC and laserdisc player before anyone I know; same with a plasma TV and lasik surgery.

But besides your home, a car is the most expensive purchase you'll ever make and thus getting too far out in front of rapidly-changing technology can be very costly.

By being smart about my car purchases (and taking great care of them) among other things, I was able to effectively retire in my early 50's. I'm not going to invest in the most rapidly depreciating asset known to man until I'm sure I'll want to keep it for at least 10 years. And IMO and in my situation, we are not there yet.

Depreciation - Since I drive my cars until they die, I don't really care about the depreciation, but yes, it's a factor for most people.

Brakes - I don't drive my cars much, so they get older quicker than they get miles on them, but seems like that's unusually good to only have your brakes changed that few times. My experience in the MINI is that so far, out of maybe 500 miles of driving (don't remember for sure), I've had to step on my brake pedal literally less than 20 times (and that's only to hold it when I'm in Drive and facing downhill at a stop).

Tax credits - My MINI had an MSRP of $30,000 (they don't haggle, you just choose your options and buy it), and with a federal tax credit of $7500 and state tax credit of $5500 (I'll be able to take advantage of the full amount since I pay that much tax to them annually), that brings the price down to $17,000. I'd say that almost half of the price being offset with tax credits is totally acceptable. The tax credit amount will vary based on which manufacturer (some aren't eligible any longer due to having sold over 200,000 electric vehicles), how much tax you pay, the battery capacity, and maybe a few other things.

So yeah, pros and cons, and everybody's situation is different, but the MINI has worked out perfectly great so far, and I expect it to for a long time to come, just wanted to clarify some of the information.

[Pete]

^

I respect all that and just like hybrids, for many the price premium is more than offset by less fossil fuel consumption and all that entails.

[Pete]

I should add that in addition to obviously being a tech nut, I have been a devout lover of cars since I was a kid.

I bought my first Mustang before my 16th birthday. I've had 2 Porsches, 2 Audis, a BMW, 3 Lexuses and an Acura. Cars are one of my obsessions and I know as much about them as anyone.

I also have an MBA in Finance and have held executive positions in that field for decades. I live my life through spreadsheets.

About a decade ago I sat down and tried to figure out how much I've spent on cars in my adult life. The numbers were staggering and nauseating. If most people actually went through a similar honest accounting, they would be horrified.

I also realized the only reason I have ever bought a new car is that I wanted it at the time, which only lasted a handful of years until I wanted yet another new model. I decided I needed to get off this marketing-driven treadmill in all aspects of my life, otherwise I'd forever have to work at jobs I generally hated.

It also helps that modern cars are little miracles. If you take decent care of them, you can keep them almost forever.

I bought my current Lexus after most of the safety revolution had taken place: multiple airbags, crumple zones, anti-lock brakes. And I'm glad I didn't spring for the in-dash navigation because it's laughable by today's standards and I just use my phone (which I integrated into the stereo system) anyway.


I read about cars every single day and go to look at them all the time. But my car is almost like new and other than the insane consumerism I am now trying to avoid, I have zero reasons to buy.

That also means I have the great luxury of just sitting back and waiting for the right time and right product to come along -- actually, we all do. And in the meantime, I don't have to do anything in my life I don't want (like working for someone else or worrying about who I may piss off by publishing information) in order to feed an endless cycle of mostly empty consumption.


My dad's great advice that I took far too long to appreciate: “Buy nice things, take good care of them, keep them a long time.”

[shawnw]

Oil changes are less than $100 / year and I've never had any other type of maintenance other than tires and brakes (which would also have to be maintained on an electric car) in 19 years.

I've done the math. At this point in time, a purely electric car would be far more expensive for me, especially when you consider the purchase price premium vs an ICE car and the massive hit you take at resale.

I tend to keep my cars for a long time, and in my personal situation I am just going to continue to drive my almost free current car and wait for things to evolve a bit more.

I would give it stronger consideration if I had a second car.

Not disagreeing with anything you said there, but I don't know where you're getting your oil changes at and how you can make that price point these days. I don't even drive anymore but back in January my daughter left her car with me when she went on a trip and I got an oil change for her (used Top 5 based on learning about them here) and was aghast at the cost now a days.

[Pete]

Not disagreeing with anything you said there, but I don't know where you're getting your oil changes at and how you can make that price point these days. I don't even drive anymore but back in January my daughter left her car with me when she went on a trip and I got an oil change for her (used Top 5 based on learning about them here) and was aghast at the cost now a days.

A complete oil change at Take 5 is about $50 if you download one of their coupons.

I also buy a few air filters through eBay for a few dollars each and when they inevitably show me a dirty one and press hard for the up-sale, I hand one to them and ask them to pop it in.

I use them about twice a year.

[TheTravellers]

I should add that in addition to obviously being a tech nut, I have been a devout lover of cars since I was a kid.

I bought my first Mustang before my 16th birthday. I've had 2 Porsches, 2 Audis, a BMW, 3 Lexuses and an Acura. Cars are one of my obsessions and I know as much about them as anyone.

I also have an MBA in Finance and have held executive positions in that field for decades. I live my life through spreadsheets.

About a decade ago I sat down and tried to figure out how much I've spent on cars in my adult life. The numbers were staggering and nauseating. If most people actually went through a similar honest accounting, they would be horrified.

I also realized the only reason I have ever bought a new car is that I wanted it at the time, which only lasted a handful of years until I wanted yet another new model. I decided I needed to get off this marketing-driven treadmill in all aspects of my life, otherwise I'd forever have to work at jobs I generally hated.

It also helps that modern cars are little miracles. If you take decent care of them, you can keep them almost forever.

I bought my current Lexus after most of the safety revolution had taken place: multiple airbags, crumple zones, anti-lock brakes. And I'm glad I didn't spring for the in-dash navigation because it's laughable by today's standards and I just use my phone (which I integrated into the stereo system) anyway.


I read about cars every single day and go to look at them all the time. But my car is almost like new and other than the insane consumerism I am now trying to avoid, I have zero reasons to buy.

That also means I have the great luxury of just sitting back and waiting for the right time and right product to come along -- actually, we all do. And in the meantime, I don't have to do anything in my life I don't want (like working for someone else) in order to feed an endless cycle of mostly empty consumption.


My dad's great advice that I took far too long to appreciate: “Buy nice things, take good care of them, keep them a long time.”

Since you're a car nut, you should love the torque and acceleration of EVs (almost scares me sometimes, not quite used to it yet). And just to be clear, I'm not a buy-one-now-they're-great staunch advocate of EVs, it was just pretty much a coincidence that I got mine - car got totaled, no 2-door models that aren't Porsche, BMW, etc. and out of my price range, wife mentioned MINI, I like the styling, and found out they had an electric model, and thought "why not?".

[Pete]

I know I would love the instant torque. There are many things inherently superior in an electric car and it's why virtually every single auto manufacturer is putting all their R&D into that technology.

If I had to buy a car today, my top choice would probably be the Kia EV6.

But I also know that if I wait 2-3 more years, the choices will offer a far better price/benefit ratio.


To me, electric cars will be very much like Moore's law of computing: the tech will continue to rapidly escalate in short time increments. We've already seen that thus far. The important difference being is you can buy a great PC for $500 and a new electric car is incredibly expensive.

[Plutonic Panda]

Since you're a car nut, you should love the torque and acceleration of EVs (almost scares me sometimes, not quite used to it yet). And just to be clear, I'm not a buy-one-now-they're-great staunch advocate of EVs, it was just pretty much a coincidence that I got mine - car got totaled, no 2-door models that aren't Porsche, BMW, etc. and out of my price range, wife mentioned MINI, I like the styling, and found out they had an electric model, and thought "why not?".

There’s more to enjoying cars than torque and acceleration. EVs feel like a car with no soul.

With that said if I could afford it I’d get a Taycan or the Hummer EV.

[TheTravellers]

There’s more to enjoying cars than torque and acceleration. EVs feel like a car with no soul. ...

I can *kind of* see your point, but I'm a geek, so to me, it just seems like the next step. Dunno if you've ever ridden in a MINI SE (only 2 in OKC, 5-6 in Tulsa, not sure how many in CA), but if you ever want a ride in one whenever you're in town, PM me. Might not change your mind, but it's really just a regular MINI with a slightly different display, it's not very futuristic or weird, just with a display of energy capacity available instead of a tachometer, and battery instead of gasoline gauge. It does make spaceship noises instead of normal car sounds, but as I said, I'm a geek, so it's fine with me...

[Plutonic Panda]

I can *kind of* see your point, but I'm a geek, so to me, it just seems like the next step. Dunno if you've ever ridden in a MINI SE (only 2 in OKC, 5-6 in Tulsa, not sure how many in CA), but if you ever want a ride in one whenever you're in town, PM me. Might not change your mind, but it's really just a regular MINI with a slightly different display, it's not very futuristic or weird, just with a display of energy capacity available instead of a tachometer, and battery instead of gasoline gauge. It does make spaceship noises instead of normal car sounds, but as I said, I'm a geek, so it's fine with me...

I think they’re cool don’t get me wrong. I’ve actually been considering an Mini EV but I want a four door.

[TheTravellers]

I think they’re cool don’t get me wrong. I’ve actually been considering an Mini EV but I want a four door.

They're coming in a couple of years, I'm betting. They're getting ready to make MINI EVs in China, apparently, not sure if it's the current one, or if they're a whole new set of models (EV versions of current models like my SE is (they're currently only made in Oxford) or completely new EVs).

[Pete]

Such things as handling and driver engagement can easily be accomplished in an electric car.

A car being 'soulless' has much more to do with other technologies like drive-by-wire and car manufacturers that don't compensate for the detached feeling.

I don't believe that even the biggest car nuts would regard the Taycan as soulless, and there will always be carmakers that prioritize driver involvement.