The American Heartland Theme Park and Resort

[shavethewhales]

People Magazine article: https://people.com/american-heartlan...edium=news_tab

Articles like this make me think there is a real chance this will be pulled off.

lol, articles like that are just fluff pieces where they pull photos and quotes from the PR. There's no investigative journalism there. They aren't questioning whether the developers actually have the ability to raise capital or if they can get the workers to the area, or if the very business proposal makes sense based on cost, likely attendance, and other factors.

In a recent article it was stated that the one and only funding source is Gene. They have no other investors on board yet. The family does have some money, but not $2 billion worth. It remains to be seen if they have a real business plan here or are just blowing smoke. They do have the land, and I believe they can get the RV park built. Everything after that seems up in the air to me. Still say it all gets scaled back.

[Plutonic Panda]

It says 20 former Disney imagineers are also behind the project. That seems pretty impressive to me.

[Plutonic Panda]

If you google this project TONS of publications from all over the world are covering this so if those are all fluff pieces then there is a lot of fluffing going around. Admittedly a selfish part of me will be jealous that Tulsa will ultimately see many international flights well before OKC if this thing does in fact even if a lot of visitors are domestic.

Plus when you look at the reality of the situation without getting political it seems like there is a growing hatred of Disney and universal(Hollywood in general) from a specific demographic who make up a lot of people and there is a market for something like this. Frankly I always thought it would be an expansion of Silver Dollar City or a new theme park in Texas.

If built I’ll probably check it out once but I’m really put off by the religious crap and I hope that’s brought to a minimum. The being closed on Sunday sh!t is a bit off putting.

[Pete]

^

The coverage is due to the press release and sexy images.

Everyone is starved for content so they eat this stuff up and don't do any fact-checking or follow up.

[Plutonic Panda]

I guess we’ll just wait and see. Even if the RV park is built as proposed it’ll be pretty impressive though is there really a demand for that kind of an RV park here without something else to compliment it with the other plans?

[Pete]

I'm not saying it's not going to happen...

Just saying press coverage is not a good barometer.

[Jake]

The Chickasaws have the opportunity to do the funniest thing and just add an amusement park to their OKANA Resort/Water Park behemoth and end this thing before it even begins. Outside of Disney/Universal obviously, only the tribes have the resources and power to pull something off like this in Oklahoma in my opinion.

All of this noise has just made me appreciate OKANA even more. That SHOULD have gotten even more press, at least locally, since it's actually happening and will probably eclipse over a billion dollars when everything is built out. It'll be a game-changer.

Heartland Park not involving the Cherokees is a massive red flag to me.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm not saying it's not going to happen...

Just saying press coverage is not a good barometer.

It’s still impressive to me at least I mean yeah they have a couple flashy renderings but so do a lot of other projects and they don’t get this kind of coverage. I think it’s likely more to do with the concept of what’s being proposed as an alternative to Disney.

But also having 20 former imagineers working on this can’t be cheap so there has to be some kind of money involved if that’s really true.

I tried reaching out to their email asking for aerial map with actual boundaries drawn out which I haven’t been able to find anywhere even through I know the general area. I’m waiting to see if they even bother to respond at all.

[Plutonic Panda]

The Chickasaws have the opportunity to do the funniest thing and just add an amusement park to their OKANA Resort/Water Park behemoth and end this thing before it even begins. Outside of Disney/Universal obviously, only the tribes have the resources and power to pull something off like this in Oklahoma in my opinion.

That is a good point and would be very cool to see. Lots of redevelopment opportunities in the immediate area with very low property values.

Heartland Park not involving the Cherokees is a massive red flag to me.

I’m not really all that surprised given the type of demographic these people are pandering to and I’d be a bit surprised to see them get involved. On the flip side if this thing does fall through maybe all the buzz around it could be an inspiration to the Cherokees to take the mantle and do it themselves without the religious/American theme. A Native American theme park owned and operated by native Americans would be pretty cool.

[Jake]

Yeah, an Americana-themed park doesn't exactly mesh with the tribes, but there are certain elements the Cherokees could have at least maybe put their stamp on. Like their own version of the indoor waterpark/resort hotel. They apparently weren't involved at all after they were initially told of the plan at the very beginning, which is weird.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don’t find it weird because if you look at the people behind it they don’t seem like the most progressive/accepting people out there. I’d bet they’d prefer the tribes stay out of it.

[TheTravellers]

It says 20 former Disney imagineers are also behind the project. That seems pretty impressive to me.

Probably not as impressive as you'd think. I just checked and Imagineering has been around since 1952, currently there are 140 job titles with that in it, 240+ imagineers currently employed. So I'd bet there are thousands of former imagineers out there...

[PhiAlpha]

I think it’s too early to say whether the Cherokee Tribe will or won’t be involved. At minimum a massive RV park and any type of resort right next to Grand Lake would provide would seem like a no brainer opportunity to build a casino around there. I have a feeling they may get involved if this moves forward.

[Plutonic Panda]

Probably not as impressive as you'd think. I just checked and Imagineering has been around since 1952, currently there are 140 job titles with that in it, 240+ imagineers currently employed. So I'd bet there are thousands of former imagineers out there...

Maybe. I’m not a Disney history expert. But I do know currently it is not easy to become an Imagineer. I don’t know what the requirements were back then they might’ve been more lenient. They were also probably a more conservative crowd.

[shavethewhales]

I don't think the Cherokees will be involved. They haven't been contacted prior to the announcement and have stated that they have no part in this. This group does not seem like the type that would want anything to do with a Casino. They probably want to build their own resort in order to get the ROI for the rest of the property. The theme park itself only makes so much money - you need that resort revenue too.

If they were to get involved, it would be to financially back the project as a general investing partner, but I don't think they need it or would be interested in taking a huge gamble on this, especially if the rumored political/religious emphasis is true.

[fortpatches]

lol, articles like that are just fluff pieces where they pull photos and quotes from the PR. There's no investigative journalism there. They aren't questioning whether the developers actually have the ability to raise capital or if they can get the workers to the area, or if the very business proposal makes sense based on cost, likely attendance, and other factors.

In a recent article it was stated that the one and only funding source is Gene. They have no other investors on board yet. The family does have some money, but not $2 billion worth. It remains to be seen if they have a real business plan here or are just blowing smoke. They do have the land, and I believe they can get the RV park built. Everything after that seems up in the air to me. Still say it all gets scaled back.

I was trying to find the quote, but I thought I ready somewhere that they were not looking for investors.

Also, I think the reason the news is so big is because the price tag is so big. Comparable parks seem to have a price tag of like $1 bln at most.

[Jake]

Nvm

[PhiAlpha]

I don't think the Cherokees will be involved. They haven't been contacted prior to the announcement and have stated that they have no part in this. This group does not seem like the type that would want anything to do with a Casino. They probably want to build their own resort in order to get the ROI for the rest of the property. The theme park itself only makes so much money - you need that resort revenue too.

If they were to get involved, it would be to financially back the project as a general investing partner, but I don't think they need it or would be interested in taking a huge gamble on this, especially if the rumored political/religious emphasis is true.

LOL. Yes I never said they would build a casino as part of the project...Okana is a big resort without a casino. i said they could build one nearby which the amusement park would have absolutely no control over. Obviously if brought in, they would be brought in as a financial backer.

My point was that it would certainly benefit them if this blew up and brought millions of people into their reservation area every year (as an example, they would have a massive built-in crowd for a casino/resort between the amusement park and Grand Lake) so there is plenty of financial motivation for them to support it. They don’t have the benefit that the chickasaws do of being the closest casinos to the DFW area so anything that draws people to their area is a good thing.

[PhiAlpha]

I was trying to find the quote, but I thought I ready somewhere that they were not looking for investors.

Also, I think the reason the news is so big is because the price tag is so big. Comparable parks seem to have a price tag of like $1 bln at most.

well the dude isn’t worth $2 Billion so that would seem kind of odd.

[G.Walker]

Staffing will be the biggest issue. Not sure how may people from Tulsa is going want to commute back and forth 65 miles everyday.

[Plutonic Panda]

Staffing will be the biggest issue. Not sure how may people from Tulsa is going want to commute back and forth 65 miles everyday.

I mean they probably had the same issue with Disney World in Orlando and they figured it out. I’m sure they can hear. Vanita is going to grow A LOT if this happens.

[Swake]

LOL. Yes I never said they would build a casino as part of the project...Okana is a big resort without a casino. i said they could build one nearby which the amusement park would have absolutely no control over. Obviously if brought in, they would be brought in as a financial backer.

My point was that it would certainly benefit them if this blew up and brought millions of people into their reservation area every year (as an example, they would have a massive built-in crowd for a casino/resort between the amusement park and Grand Lake) so there is plenty of financial motivation for them to support it. They don’t have the benefit that the chickasaws do of being the closest casinos to the DFW area so anything that draws people to their area is a good thing.

There already are a couple of casinos on the lake.

[shavethewhales]

Staffing will be tough, but not as bad as people think. I know SDC struggles with staffing, and I probably mentioned it once before but they are just about to open a new employee dormitory/apartment building right next to SDC to help attract workers. They could do similar, but really there are a good amount of people willing to drive 30ish mins within the area. Since they are just off of I44, within 40 mins you've got quite a few towns such as Grove, Pryor, Miami, and almost Claremore, not to mention a plethora of tiny towns and rural people. They could scrounge up a few hundred workers pretty quickly, and more will move into the area as opportunities open up and housing is built.

[PhiAlpha]

There already are a couple of casinos on the lake.

There's one small casino in Grove which is 30 minutes away from Vinita and well off the beaten path from I-44. Others are quite a bit farther than that. Grove could probably draw from something like this...but if you're the tribe and can build one almost where ever you want...why not build one closer to this (assuming it becomes anything similar to what they are proposing) which would be the only one on the west side of the lake?

[Urbanized]

well the dude isn’t worth $2 Billion so that would seem kind of odd.

I mean...finance is definitely a real thing. And we have no idea how many investors they already have. Bicknell (apparently the main investor) just received a documented tax return windfall of $63 million, and that was money that was initially taken from him - wrongly, according to the courts - as part of a transaction wherein he sold 800 Pizza Huts that he owned. Meaning the sale number was surely many multiples of that original tax withholding. The most recent pre-sale era revenue numbers I could find for NPC (his holding company) was half a billion in annual sales. I'm sure when he sold his shares what he ended up clearing was in the multiple hundreds of millions.

He also owns radio stations and other businesses, and Mansion Entertainment looks to be huge and growing in the fields of live entertainment, film and TV production, animation and others. They are the main sponsor for the 2024 Rose Parade. People like this know how to gain project financing.

And THG Creative just announced a partnership with American Heartland. Click on that link and you will find that they are a pretty massive player in the attractions industry.

Last but not least, Cathy O'Connor (former CEO for Oklahoma City's Alliance for Economic Development) just announced on social media that her consulting firm is working on this project, meaning that most likely they will be pursuing a dedicated TIF for the development's footprint and likely also any state incentives that make sense. All of this tells me that this is a pretty serious project, and far from a simple "throw it at the wall and see if it sticks" call for investors. I think it's real, and I think these people know what they are doing when it comes to financing a project like this.