Over the air TV and sub-channels

[MST3KServo]

Quest popped up for me on 5.7, no scanning needed on my home TV, but had to scan for it on my old small tv. Enjoying some of the content on it.

[Dob Hooligan]

Quest popped up for me on 5.7, no scanning needed on my home TV, but had to scan for it on my old small tv. Enjoying some of the content on it.

I got it on mine, as well. Can't get the programing guide up, however. Can you describe what kinda stuff is on Quest?

[Chicken In The Rough]

I'd like to see MoviesTV come to OKC broadcast channels.

https://moviestvnetwork.com/

It's similar to TCM on cable. I miss it everytime I'm in OKC for a visit.

[gjl]

I got it on mine, as well. Can't get the programing guide up, however. Can you describe what kinda stuff is on Quest?

https://www.questtv.com/schedule?reload=true

[Bobby821]

Attention Rewind TV viewers in the Oklahoma City area, we have good news! Rewind TV is now on KAUT 43.2 and Cox channel 220. Please share the news with family and friends! #rewindtv #antennatv #oklahomacity #oklahoma #80s #90s #nostalgia #retro

[Dob Hooligan]

Attention Rewind TV viewers in the Oklahoma City area, we have good news! Rewind TV is now on KAUT 43.2 and Cox channel 220. Please share the news with family and friends! #rewindtv #antennatv #oklahomacity #oklahoma #80s #90s #nostalgia #retro

Rewind TV is owned by Nextstar, who owns KFOR channel 4 and KAUT channel 43 in Oklahoma City. Rewind is sitcoms from the 1980s and 1990s. Mainly 90s. No dramas or black and white shows. Court TV is still on KOPX channel 62.3 over the air.

[scottk]

A question for someone more technical on the forum:

Has something change in regards to the quality of Over the Air channels?

We cut the cord nearly a decade ago and get all of the networks (NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS, PBS, etc) from antenna. Recently, we have noticed a lot more artifacts and digital compression on programming. This is especially obvious when watching live sports. The score bugs, graphics, and fast motion all look awful for HD quality. We live in the OKC metro about 10-15 miles from the towers as the crow flies and we are not having reception issues. The signal is fine, just the overall quality of picture has been much more "compressed"

The quality is across all of our TV's of various sizes and brands. Did TV stations have to downgrade the quality they broadcast at when the channels all moved into the lower UHF frequencies?

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm not an expert, but I do pay a fair amount of attention. I think most OKC stations have changed to ATSC 3.0 broadcast signal within the last 5-ish years. I'm not sure what it is, but it's supposed to be really neato when fully implemented.

I watch a lot of over the air. Sub-channels and low power stations. I'm starting to wonder if my shop HD Homerun unit is old and breaking down? I have hell getting KOCO to come in during certain extra hot or cold times.

Do you have a "whole house" unit that sends the antenna signal to your devices, or is the signal individually cabled to each TV straight from the antenna?

[FighttheGoodFight]

I haven't noticed this. I am in Norman. I have an attic antenna to an HDHomeRun 4k. I do have double channels for the ones on ATSC3 and the old ones.

[scottk]

I'm not an expert, but I do pay a fair amount of attention. I think most OKC stations have changed to ATSC 3.0 broadcast signal within the last 5-ish years. I'm not sure what it is, but it's supposed to be really neato when fully implemented.

I watch a lot of over the air. Sub-channels and low power stations. I'm starting to wonder if my shop HD Homerun unit is old and breaking down? I have hell getting KOCO to come in during certain extra hot or cold times.

Do you have a "whole house" unit that sends the antenna signal to your devices, or is the signal individually cabled to each TV straight from the antenna?

We have an attic in the antenna that is connected to a few of the TV's, no amplifier. For our TV's not near existing cable outlets, we have flat antennas on the back.

I know that KOCO and OETA are still both on VHF channels, while all the other OKC channels are UHF. Most newer antennas favor the UHF, however, with a little adjusting we are able to get KOCO and OETA just fine.

You bring up a good point about ATSC 3.0, I wonder if that compresses the signal differently, all of our TV's with built in tuners are still the ATSC 2.0 channels. I also figured all of the sub networks were causing the main signal to become more compressed.

[Bunty]

We have an attic in the antenna that is connected to a few of the TV's, no amplifier. For our TV's not near existing cable outlets, we have flat antennas on the back.

I know that KOCO and OETA are still both on VHF channels, while all the other OKC channels are UHF. Most newer antennas favor the UHF, however, with a little adjusting we are able to get KOCO and OETA just fine.

You bring up a good point about ATSC 3.0, I wonder if that compresses the signal differently, all of our TV's with built in tuners are still the ATSC 2.0 channels. I also figured all of the sub networks were causing the main signal to become more compressed.

You mean ATSC 1.0. Because according to wiki, "ATSC 2.0 was a planned major new revision of the standard which would have been backward compatible with ATSC 1.0. The standard was to have allowed interactive and hybrid television technologies by connecting the TV with the Internet services and allowing interactive elements into the broadcast stream. Other features were to have included advanced video compression, audience measurement, targeted advertising, enhanced programming guides, video on demand services, and the ability to store information on new receivers, including Non-realtime (NRT) content.[15][16][17]

However, ATSC 2.0 was never actually launched, as it was essentially outdated before it could be launched. All of the changes that were a part of the ATSC 2.0 revision were adopted into ATSC 3.0."

Moving to a different informative topic, flat indoor antennas work out best if they are made to accept connections with RG-6 cable. That kind of cable cuts down on signal loss. I know, since using an antenna like that gets me all the high powered OKC stations, but it had to be mounted at ceiling level. That way it gets VHF 5 and 13 fine and steady. Most flat antennas, though, come with a thin built-in cable that can't be traded with RG-6 cable. Such antennas may work out if you don't live too far from the towers. Stillwater, especially in the valleys, can be difficult with bringing in all the high powered OKC TV stations with a steady signal when using an indoor antenna, amped or not.

The Antenna Man on YouTube is a great place to get elaborate info on indoor as well as outdoor antennas. He has tested a bunch of them.

[kevok]

A question for someone more technical on the forum:

Has something change in regards to the quality of Over the Air channels?

I do think something has changed recently. My mother in Guthrie used to get a lot of the primary channels but recently only Ch 5 and a couple of the subs seems to work. Nothing changed with her setup as set it up for her (she can't reach it) and verified everything is still the same. Nothing constructed outside her house or in line of sight towards OKC. Now, no other configuration gets the other channels back (Channels (and their subs) 4, 9, 13). It's an amplified flat panel antenna.

[Newbomb Turk]

Perhaps the amplifier in the panel died or the power supply.

[scottk]

If you watched the OU Texas game this weekend, the OTA feed had many drop outs apparently due to the the ABC/Disney satellite aligning with the sun and causing drop outs. This was apparently not just for antenna viewers, but also on all the cable and streaming feeds were impacted from the main ABC feed.

Guess it still makes sense that the network bounces a signal up to the satellite and all the affiliates can pull down simultaneously, just figured there would be a backup method in 2023 that would be fiber or IPTV based in addition to satellites.

[jedicurt]

If you watched the OU Texas game this weekend, the OTA feed had many drop outs apparently due to the the ABC/Disney satellite aligning with the sun and causing drop outs. This was apparently not just for antenna viewers, but also on all the cable and streaming feeds were impacted from the main ABC feed.

Guess it still makes sense that the network bounces a signal up to the satellite and all the affiliates can pull down simultaneously, just figured there would be a backup method in 2023 that would be fiber or IPTV based in addition to satellites.

i heard that there are backups in place by using stadium internet infrastructure. but that isn't the case with the cotton bowl as it hasn't been updated to provide such. now, why couldn't ABC/Disney bring in their own equipment as a backup, who knows...

[TornadoKegan]

I Recall a couple of years ago, I have been able to receive KTEN from Moore, it was In and out, and it was in late fall in the middle of the night. The thing is i only used a $5 OTA Antenna from 5 Below.

[mugofbeer]

If you watched the OU Texas game this weekend, the OTA feed had many drop outs apparently due to the the ABC/Disney satellite aligning with the sun and causing drop outs. This was apparently not just for antenna viewers, but also on all the cable and streaming feeds were impacted from the main ABC feed.

Guess it still makes sense that the network bounces a signal up to the satellite and all the affiliates can pull down simultaneously, just figured there would be a backup method in 2023 that would be fiber or IPTV based in addition to satellites.

My reception for OU/TX on cable in Denver glitched out a few times and the sound quality was off a bit but the announcers actually apologized for their technical difficulties so it was coming from the stadium itself.

[TVVoiceGuy]

A question for someone more technical on the forum:

Has something change in regards to the quality of Over the Air channels?

We cut the cord nearly a decade ago and get all of the networks (NBC, ABC, FOX, CBS, PBS, etc) from antenna. Recently, we have noticed a lot more artifacts and digital compression on programming. This is especially obvious when watching live sports. The score bugs, graphics, and fast motion all look awful for HD quality. We live in the OKC metro about 10-15 miles from the towers as the crow flies and we are not having reception issues. The signal is fine, just the overall quality of picture has been much more "compressed"

The quality is across all of our TV's of various sizes and brands. Did TV stations have to downgrade the quality they broadcast at when the channels all moved into the lower UHF frequencies?

Most likely due to the increased number of sub-channels being added, and the bandwidth available to carry them. Think of it as a pie. 1 channel = the whole pie (bandwidth). 2 channels = half the pie (bandwidth) each. When you get up into the higher number of subchannels, you're talking about splitting the bandwidth 6 ways, 7 ways, or more. Each channel gets less and less, ultimately causing signal degradation on the main channel as well. You may have perfect signal strength, but due to the bandwidth split, pixelization will still occur.

[scottk]

Most likely due to the increased number of sub-channels being added, and the bandwidth available to carry them. Think of it as a pie. 1 channel = the whole pie (bandwidth). 2 channels = half the pie (bandwidth) each. When you get up into the higher number of subchannels, you're talking about splitting the bandwidth 6 ways, 7 ways, or more. Each channel gets less and less, ultimately causing signal degradation on the main channel as well. You may have perfect signal strength, but due to the bandwidth split, pixelization will still occur.

Yuck, most of the subchannels are "throw away" channels - I think OKC has QVC Over the Air on four different stations. I don't think there would be a lot of pushback to prioritize the main signal with more bandwidth during sporting events and primetime.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Bunty]

As of Tuesday, MeTV Toons has just started in OKC on channel 30.7. Since it's a new subchannel you will have to rescan your TV for it. It may still be playing promos. Cartoons will mainly be old classic ones. In Tulsa, it's on channel 41.5.

Some things to know about MeTV Toons:

1. MeTv Toons is an over the air broadcast channel. Not cable, not a streaming service. Just an over the air broadcast channel.
2. MeTV Toons is labeled as a channel for Adults.
3. If your cable or satellite provider doesn't carry the channel, contact them to carry it.
4. No toy or cereal commercials will be on MeTV. (See number two)
5. No Cartoon Network shows will be on the channel.
6. There will be specials produced for the channel.
7. MeTV Toons will be a work in progress.

[scottk]

I keep seeing all types of businesses (car dealerships service areas, health/doctor's offices, restaurants, other waiting room areas) with KWTV 9.2 on and the continuous loop of News 9 and their weather. (or maybe it's just channel 53 COX)

Seems like a no-brainer for KFOR and KOCO to do something like this on one of their sub-channels since it would cost next to nothing to operate. I remember when KFOR first when DTV and they had a radar loop on 4.2 and it went away after a few months or within a year or two.

Yes, I know you can view all of the local newscasts on demand on the websites and apps, but the simplicity or Over-The-Air and the ability to quickly get a headline update or weather update while in a forced waiting area is convenient instead of pulling out a smart device.

[Dob Hooligan]

I keep seeing all types of businesses (car dealerships service areas, health/doctor's offices, restaurants, other waiting room areas) with KWTV 9.2 on and the continuous loop of News 9 and their weather. (or maybe it's just channel 53 COX)

Seems like a no-brainer for KFOR and KOCO to do something like this on one of their sub-channels since it would cost next to nothing to operate. I remember when KFOR first when DTV and they had a radar loop on 4.2 and it went away after a few months or within a year or two.

Yes, I know you can view all of the local newscasts on demand on the websites and apps, but the simplicity or Over-The-Air and the ability to quickly get a headline update or weather update while in a forced waiting area is convenient instead of pulling out a smart device.

KWTV is the only locally owned station. And they locked up the market for the “local loop” with “News Now 53” on Cox over 20 years ago. Clearly defined and curated classic reruns provided by a national programmer who does everything for the local station in exchange for the local station selling 6 minutes of ads per hour is a win win.

[mugofbeer]

I'm totally ignorant about over the air broadcasting since the advent of cable but l'm curious how do you have a channel 4.2, 9.2 or 47.5? How do TVs pick them up?

[Bunty]

I'm totally ignorant about over the air broadcasting since the advent of cable but l'm curious how do you have a channel 4.2, 9.2 or 47.5? How do TVs pick them up?

These days, even old people have been rejecting the high cost of Cable TV and are either getting on streaming TV, over the air TV or both. But the catch to over the air TV is you have to attach an antenna, like an old-fashioned rabbit ears to the appropriate input on the back of the TV for the TV's digital tuner and punch scan. It's kind of similar to how you may remember it as a kid, except you never had to punch scan.

As I recall long ago, my mother didn't like the fine bits of snow on the screen after we got our first color TV and decided we would have to do something about it by subscribing to Cable TV. As a result, no more tiny bits of confetti snow on any of the channels was cool. But fast forward by decades and today Cable TV has become far too expensive. And since around 2009, unlike snowy analog signals, digital signals are either there or they are not from being too weak. I think digital signals are better for reception, especially if you could never stand for any snow.

[Snowman]

I'm totally ignorant about over the air broadcasting since the advent of cable but l'm curious how do you have a channel 4.2, 9.2 or 47.5? How do TVs pick them up?

It was an industry standard agreed upon before any of the transmitters, receivers, or TVs were produced (with possible exception of old TV with add-on external receiver). Basically stations could pick to broadcast their station at a higher resolutions, put four stations at the resolution they were doing before the upgrade, or if willing to show lower resolution degrading quality for more channels (though if replaying pre digital content like 90s or earlier might be the full resolution it originally was). So on the common case of 4: station broadcasts out four channels on their old channel, like picture in picture with each channel in a corner. The TV just picks which one of those four to shows at full size by the sub number given and ignores the rest.