Whole Foods

[Chicken In The Rough]

We would Chicken In The Rough if they carried the same seletions (type and quanity) as whole foods, I was in Native Roots 3--4 days ago, and their selection was very disapointing.

Native Roots and Forward Foods are both basically startup companies. Neither has been open much more than a year or two. They are both building their businesses, establishing their product mix, and trying to firm-up their loyal customer base. They need their customers to tell them what new items to bring in and help them grow. If we simply abandon them because they are not Whole Foods, we'll never benefit from their growth.

Whole Foods stores are very pretty and have an impressive selection. Their delis and bakeries are extremely nice, their produce is unsurpassed, and their meat is terrific. I know all the arguments in favor of Whole Foods. They do a good job. They are also a multi-billion dollar company with a massive corporate structure that cares little about you or your neighbors. They will drain money from our community and cause the closure of our locally owned stores.

It's not just Forward Foods or Native Roots. It's also Bill Kamps Meat Market, Big Sky Bread, Crescent Market, Health Food Center, etc. These stores are owned by locals. They use local services such as accountants, advertising companies, lawyers, etc. They buy from local producers and suplliers. They save their pennies in local banks.

Yes, living locally may be a bit less convenient for now, but living locally is a lifestyle that will lead to a stronger and more successful city. We cannot divorce ourselves from local businesses. We are an integral part of each other's success, and therefore, our community's success.

[foodiefan]

Quote from CIR: "They will drain money from our community and cause the closure of our locally owned stores. "

Granted they would be competition, but. . .Wild Oats/Whole Foods in Tulsa don't seem to have stopped locals from opening new stores/venues in Tulsa. . .I think it is "Central Market" (not the one out of Texas) that is a local operation that carries organic produce, meats, and Farrell's bread (whose main store is at Yale and 81st). They went in about a year ago. I think it will be a long time before OKC would get a "big" Whole Foods/Central Market, but what about something the size of WF in Brookside? They seem to be coexistsing well with the locals.

[foodiefan]

Hmm. . .a related thought, different product. . .how many of us shop and purchase at Best Buy, Conn's, Utlimate Electronics. . .instead of Harry's, Dick Christman's, Anthony's. The biggies are competition, but these locals have been in business a long time.

[Millie]

There's a huge difference between a one-stop-shop supermarket like Whole Foods and the handful of independent stores you would have to shop at to get the same variety of goods.

I'm all for independent stores, but I don't really want to drive to five different stores to put together a meal.

[bluedogok]

There's a huge difference between a one-stop-shop supermarket like Whole Foods and the handful of independent stores you would have to shop at to get the same variety of goods.

I'm all for independent stores, but I don't really want to drive to five different stores to put together a meal.

The only way those type of specialty/independent market type stores work well is if they are clustered together like you find in NYC, someplace like the Chelsea Market would work in pretty much any decent sized city, if you could get the tenants lined up. Friedman's Delicatessen has some great pastrami, wish I could get it here.

[BDP]

The only way those type of specialty/independent market type stores work well is if they are clustered together like you find in NYC, someplace like the Chelsea Market would work in pretty much any decent sized city, if you could get the tenants lined up.

Very true. And this is another good argument for expanding Oklahoma City's urban living options. A dense community in at least one part of the city that can help support these establishments day to day would also benefit all residents as they would have a place to go and shop several small specialty stores within a short walk of each other, eliminating the need to drive 10 miles and park 6 times just to buy quality products from local merchants.

[autoMATTic]

I have no direct source information, but this is what I hear about the whole foods deal. Selling high point beer and wine is a prime part of their business (One reason why all the other local stores mentioned pale in comparison and are so far from what whole foods is that they shouldn't be in the same conversation), and will not open new stores any place that they cannot feature these products. Therefore, our blue laws stifle from having something good, again. Although, trader joes and central market would definitely be gladly accepted as a close second. And to those out there who want to play the local card, I understand and believe oklahoma needs local support. However, whole foods goes to great lengths to feature local artists, school projects, and producers as a way of promoting their particular city. A place with the influence as great as whole foods would do great things for those who had a chance to be featured. Hopefully the quality food producers out there will here our cries someday.

Tulsa has one . . . They are in Pennsylvania as well.

[metro]

I make it a point to hit that store every time I'm in Tulsa, ten or twelve times a year at least. Though not as large as a typical Whole Foods like the ones in Denver mentioned by t3h, IMO t's way better than any other food store in Oklahoma. And Whole Foods is way better than Wild Oats was.

It's hard to stock up for a month, but I always bring back plenty of fresh fruit and veggies along with a few quarts of Low Fat Hagan Daz and Ben & Jerry's . . . my fav is Cherry Garcia FroYo . . . almost impossible to find in OKC. Good cheese selection too. They have a house brand . . . 365 . . . that is very competitively priced and offers a good selection of canned and packaged items.

Actually, I saw plenty of FroYo (even Cherry Garcia) at the SuperTarget in Edmond on 2nd and Bryant yesterday. Saw Steve there too!

[soonerguru]

I'm told that Whole Foods in New York and New Jersey does not offer wine or liquor due to laws in those states. They do sell good beer there, though.

[MikeOKC]

The same little birdy that told me about Half Price Books coming to OKC a few months back (and the location) is now talking about a full-pitch for Whole Foods at the old CompUSA location next to Half Price Books. A stone's throw from Akin's.

[BG918]

Very true. And this is another good argument for expanding Oklahoma City's urban living options. A dense community in at least one part of the city that can help support these establishments day to day would also benefit all residents as they would have a place to go and shop several small specialty stores within a short walk of each other, eliminating the need to drive 10 miles and park 6 times just to buy quality products from local merchants.

That is the problem with OKC's current situation with its local markets. One Whole Foods in downtown could solve a lot of those issues and be another 'destination' downtown. If not Whole Foods then something similar, like Cosentino's in downtown Kansas City: Cosentino's Market In Brookside

[sgray]

Now you're talkin! That's the way it oughtta be.

[soonerguru]

Now you're talkin! That's the way it oughtta be.

You're right, of course. But we would never hear the end of the apoplectic whiners screaming about THE PARKING.

[Richard at Remax]

people need to realize that in downtown areas, especially ones that are growing like ours, walking is, gasp, NORMAL. we probably wouldn't be one of the fattest cities if more people started walking a bit more.

That design is awesome btw.

[southernskye]

You're right, of course. But we would never hear the end of the apoplectic whiners screaming about THE PARKING.

There probably is an underground parking garage.

[BG918]

There probably is an underground parking garage.

I'm not sure if there is or not, I've never been to it but would love to see it next time I'm in KC. From an urban standpoint it is a great design: entrance on the sidewalk at the corner, large windows along the sidewalk, quality materials that blend with the surroundings (no EIFS!), and either no new parking or concealed parking in an adjacent garage or underneath the building. If KC can do it like that there is absolutely NO reason we can't in OKC!

[julieriggs]

OK - not a whiner, and I am a very fit WALKER... but I do have to shop for a small army every week.

How would I shop at a downtown Whole Foods-type market as pictured in the rendering in an earlier post? I can't carry $300 worth of groceries to the car. Having always been a suburban girl, I wonder how those in NYC or other dense urban environments do it. Do they have to shop several times a week?

[Pete]

The stores in LA have immediately adjacent parking -- even the more urban locations.

WF would never build a location in OK where you couldn't easily get your groceries to the car.

[BG918]

The stores in LA have immediately adjacent parking -- even the more urban locations.

WF would never build a location in OK where you couldn't easily get your groceries to the car.

The coolest thing I've seen (this was in Spain) was underground parking beneath the grocery store with extra wide escalators for shopping carts. In OKC I would be happy if the main entrance was on the street for those walking/biking to the store and those parking on the street, and then a secondary entrance at the back to either a surface lot or better a garage that is shared w/ other businesses and shielded from view.

[Heyuri]

The coolest thing I've seen (this was in Spain) was underground parking beneath the grocery store with extra wide escalators for shopping carts. In OKC I would be happy if the main entrance was on the street for those walking/biking to the store and those parking on the street, and then a secondary entrance at the back to either a surface lot or better a garage that is shared w/ other businesses and shielded from view.

The flagship store in downtown Austin has underground parking with extra wide escalators to bring you up and into the store.

[metro]

The coolest thing I've seen (this was in Spain) was underground parking beneath the grocery store with extra wide escalators for shopping carts. In OKC I would be happy if the main entrance was on the street for those walking/biking to the store and those parking on the street, and then a secondary entrance at the back to either a surface lot or better a garage that is shared w/ other businesses and shielded from view.

These are all over the U.S. too, just not too common around this part of the country. Seen them on both coasts and as the above poster pointed out, Austin has them as well.

[Chicken In The Rough]

Multi-story grocery stores that I've been to have extra wide escalators specially designed to accomodate shopping carts. The carts having locking wheel that prevent them from rolling down the escalator.

Also, I would estimate more than half the grocery shoppers arrive on foot or via public transit. They bring their own cart with them to get their groceries home.

OKC is not Manhattan, but folks will adapt.

[southernskye]

Do they have to shop several times a week?

Some do. My daughter and her family live in Austin, they do not own a car. It's a choice they have made. When she needs to make a large grocery run she calls a cab when she is finished. For the in between trips she just takes her stuff home on the bus. You would be amazed at what you can get in a backpack and 2 reusable grocery bags.

To market to market By CARLA SAULTER
The most common question I am asked about my car-free life (besides, of course, “Why?!”) is, “How do you shop for groceries?” This errand, time-consuming and inconvenient with a car, is perceived to be next to impossible without one. My goal this week is to show you that it is quite possible — and not even especially difficult.
If you read the first installment of this series, you know that proximity to useful services is key to a successful bus-based life. My house is two blocks from a mediocre chain grocery store, which I patronize to fulfill immediate needs such as missing recipe ingredients and severe cases of the munchies. For less pressing needs, I have other methods.

Method 1: Scheduled deliveries
I prefer locally grown, organic produce, but I don’t live close enough to a food co-op to make frequent trips feasible. Enter Pioneer Organics, an organic produce delivery service that brings fresh, seasonal, earth-friendly produce right to my door. Pioneer groups deliveries by location — neighborhoods are assigned a particular day of the week — to ensure that fuel and time are used efficiently. I receive my delivery every other Wednesday, and it provides enough produce to last the full two weeks. Of course, a bus chick can’t survive on produce alone.

Method 2: Effective planning
Like most people, I keep a running list of food items I need. Unlike most people, I don’t drive a car to the grocery store to buy them. Instead, I take advantage of opportunities that arise in the course of my regular travels. For example, if I’m waiting at a bus stop that’s near a bakery, I use the time to buy bread — or an enormous slice of chocolate cake. If I happen to be passing through Pike Place Market on a day I’m low on cheese, I’ll stop at Beechers to replenish the supply.

Method 3: Appropriate equipment
Every couple of months, I make the trek to my favorite co-op to stock up on bulk foods. Getting there on the bus isn’t too much trouble: two short rides or one short ride plus a short walk. Getting back, loaded down with umpteen pounds of fragile, cumbersome groceries, is a bit more of a challenge. For these occasions, I bring very sturdy reusable bags and my super-heavy-duty backpack. Many bus chicks also swear by the rolling wire grocery baskets. These handy contraptions (often unfairly associated with old ladies) allow you to buy freely, without regard to your personal carrying capacity.

If you’re not into lugging or pulling, you can ride the bus to the store and then call a cab to take you (and your load) home. Or, you can use Flexcar. That way, you won’t miss out on the time-honored tradition of trying to find parking in a crowded grocery-store parking lot.
Seattle Bus Chick

[tuck]

people need to realize that in downtown areas, especially ones that are growing like ours, walking is, gasp, NORMAL. we probably wouldn't be one of the fattest cities if more people started walking a bit more.

That design is awesome btw.

Agree...One of the main components of everything Urban/Downtown is walking. OKC residents aren't even close to getting it. I hear all the time that the walk from Red PrimeSteak to the Ford Center is too far. Are you kidding me, I walk it 2-3 times a month...takes me 15 minutes max.

I am also not sure that the majority of OKC understand Whole Foods; it product selection, price point, etc...I'm all for Whole Foods or any other grocery store downtown or even close.

[soonerguru]

Julie,

People in New York often buy in small quantities, even daily. However, when I lived there all the markets like D'agostino's would offer delivery to your apartment. You can have literally anything delivered in NYC.