Homeless Population

[bucktalk]

All human behaviour is met with consequences. When other humans infringe on the health and safety of others, whether your homeless or not, has to have consequences. To deny or ignore dangerous safety and health behaviours without consequences is a recipe for multiple problems.

[Just the facts]

The idea most are nice people who are momentarily down on their luck is a complete fantasy.

When a person ends up on the street it is usually because they already burned through every friend and family member they have. No one goes from job to street life in one day. Other than mental health, it is usually the result of poor decisions over a long period of time.

[Pete]

When a person ends up on the street it is usually because they already burned through every friend and family member they have. No one goes from job to street life in one day. Other than mental health, it is usually the result of poor decisions over a long period of time.

Studies show that almost everyone on the street is there due to mental health and/or addiction problems, two problems that are very difficult to address even with unlimited resources.

And it has to be said, a fair amount of people in prison meet this description as well.

[Just the facts]

I include drug addiction in the "poor choices over a long period of time" category.

I have had the opportunity to ask several homeless people if they can pinpoint a seminal moment when their lives turned to path they are on. For a lot of them it was drugs or alcohol at an early age. I had one guy tell me his biggest regret was his first cigarette. That is a difficult downward spiral to get out of and the best way to win is never to play. Of course, some don't mind the path they're on.

[Pete]

I include drug addiction in the "poor choices over a long period of time" category.

Addiction is not a choice.

[Just the facts]

Addiction is not a choice.

Sure it is. People choose not to be addicts every day. I have family members who were drug addicts, but aren't anymore.

[catch22]

The World According to JustTheFacts™

[Plutonic Panda]

Sure it is. People choose not to be addicts every day. I have family members who were drug addicts, but aren't anymore.

That is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

[G.Walker]

$400M for homeless, somebody do the math again...

[PhiAlpha]

Addiction is not a choice.

Addiction is not a choice. Deciding to be clean is a choice, albeit and extremely difficult one that you have to make every day that is made even more difficult if you have the wrong people around you.

[PhiAlpha]

Sure it is. People choose not to be addicts every day. I have family members who were drug addicts, but aren't anymore.

You can’t choose not to be an addict…if you’re an addict…you’re an addict. You can choose not to be addicted/clean and can be forced clean but at some point it does have to be your choice to stay that way.

[PhiAlpha]

People from that ever-shifting camp have broken into several homes in my area as well as gone through or over fences and cut the locks off many sheds. One of them broke through the backdoor where a young girl was home alone.

A two-story office building in the area recently was burned to the ground. On my many walks, I've seen all types of scary characters coming and going from a vacant house in foreclosure that had been taken over by squatters and then later destroyed by fire.


I absolutely hate to be negative about anything related to OKC or to be anything but compassionate toward my fellow man, but if the general citizenry saw what happens in this area on a regular basis, their opinion would be strongly hardened regarding this population. The idea most are nice people who are momentarily down on their luck is a complete fantasy.

Example of what happens when that kind of activity spills over into the general citizenry. This was 2 blocks from my apartment in downtown Tulsa last year. A girl who worked at a hotel was trying to be nice to a homeless guy who’d frequented the area and out of no where he snapped and beat the hell out of her. Shes lucky it happened during the day when someone was nearby to intervene as she easily could’ve been killed.

https://www.newson6.com/story/623e4b...-brutal-attack

Had a friend refuse to give one money last year. The guy, who is 6’5” and mostly friendly… ran after him and punched him in the back of the head. Had another friend a few years ago that was chased into her building by one that was screaming and running after her down the street. Thought she was safe in her building and the guy smashed the window and came in after her. The elevator closed right before he got to her. Last year I walked out of my apartment at 6:00 AM to a guy full naked screaming at the top of his lungs at anyone who walked by. Then of course theres my story a page back about my female friend who moved here from Detroit. Those are just my personal experiences off the top of my head.

In lighter news, I had to stop my dog from eating human crap today (complete with toilet paper in the middle of the sidewalk) while walking him to the park where there are now daily piles of trash.

OKC and Tulsa have to get this under control or risk taking several steps back on all the progress that’s been made in our inner city areas over the last two decades.

[Laramie]

Thanks for sharing those experiences PhiAlpha about Tulsa which has the same concerns as OKC with some homeless people who are in need of mental health and other services. I'm seeing more people camped out in the city's core. It gets scary at times seeing this problem in full view. Most of the people I help are appreciative and thankful. Can't imagine what it would be like to be in their shoes.

[LocoAko]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...n/70080865007/

[Just the facts]

I didn't see anything in that plan to either make these people self-sufficient or permanent wards of the State. Homelessness is a symptom not the problem. Again spending money on the wrong solution.

[Pete]

Our plan is based on what Houston has done, which has been highly successful.

The basic idea is that you build housing, have outreach teams that connect the homeless to resources, get as many housed as will go, decommission the camps, place police presence at the site of the old camps, and encourage anyone who returns to access resources without punitive measures.

This model is also supported with HUD funding.

It's a very positive step. And after it gets fully implemented in the next two years, although police will not seek punitive measures against people returning to decommissioned camps, it will be easier to stop them from starting these camps all over again.


The bottom line is it is currently political suicide to take a strong stance against these camps. Once there is a viable alternative and some simply choose not to take advantage, then it will be easier to be more strict.

[jccouger]

I've definitely lost a lot of empathy for the homeless community over time. I work near general pershing blvd & the amount of destruction, violence & drug abuse I witness on a day to day basis is something I'd never thought I'd see.

It is sad, but after a while it get's harder and harder to feel sorry for them. Unfortunately I think most of the helping which comes in the lines & providing easyish access to everything somebody would need to survive actually is the reason why the community just keeps growing. If you can choose to receive everything you "need" while having no job/life responsibilities all the while getting to partake in whatever addiction your self has day after day, why not live that lifestyle?

I know I'm simplifying this, and I truly do appreciate those who devote their lives to helping to end & help homelessness but at the end of the day there are just gonna be people who want to live that lifestyle if it becomes easier and easier.

[Pete]

Houston has taught us the first thing is to remove the excuse of no available housing. You build it and the people that want to be housed now have an easy choice.

Those that won't go are basically saying, "I don't want to be housed even for free and choose to live on the street and cause all types of problems". At that point, there is the political will to deal with them in a different way. Public safety takes priority and at the very least they can be chased off to places where they are not a direct threat to neighborhoods and businesses.

The plans don't say this outright because it will cause outrage. But that's effectively how all of this works.

Once there is housing, the police will approach these groups and tell them they can't remain and there are a bunch of different options. We can't force you to take advantage but you cannot stay here.

[TheTravellers]

Houston has taught us the first thing is to remove the excuse of no available housing. You build it and the people that want to be housed now have an easy choice.

Those that won't go are basically saying, "I don't want to be housed even for free and choose to live on the street and cause all types of problems". At that point, there is the political will to deal with them in a different way. Public safety takes priority and at the very least they can be chased off to places where they are not a direct threat to neighborhoods and businesses.

The plans don't say this outright because it will cause outrage. But that's effectively how all of this works.

Once there is housing, the police will approach these groups and tell them they can't remain and there are a bunch of different options. We can't force you to take advantage but you cannot stay here.

[bucktalk]

Houston has taught us the first thing is to remove the excuse of no available housing. You build it and the people that want to be housed now have an easy choice.

Those that won't go are basically saying, "I don't want to be housed even for free and choose to live on the street and cause all types of problems". At that point, there is the political will to deal with them in a different way. Public safety takes priority and at the very least they can be chased off to places where they are not a direct threat to neighborhoods and businesses.

The plans don't say this outright because it will cause outrage. But that's effectively how all of this works.

Once there is housing, the police will approach these groups and tell them they can't remain and there are a bunch of different options. We can't force you to take advantage but you cannot stay here.

You can only imagine the degree of danger police will be subject to in approaching a homeless individual who will flatly refuse to go into provided housing. My concern is the number of those who will refuse is higher than we realize. Such a volatile situation for many - the homeless, those who work with homeless and the police departments.

[Pete]

You can only imagine the degree of danger police will be subject to in approaching a homeless individual who will flatly refuse to go into provided housing. My concern is the number of those who will refuse is higher than we realize. Such a volatile situation for many - the homeless, those who work with homeless and the police departments.

They already are making people pack up (with the help of Shine and outreach programs) and move along.

The big difference is they will not be allowed just to move down the road or return to the same place (like I-44 & Penn) over and over again.

Once housing is available, there will be less public sympathy and tolerance.

[TheTravellers]

You can only imagine the degree of danger police will be subject to in approaching a homeless individual who will flatly refuse to go into provided housing. ...

That's part of their job.

[April in the Plaza]

You can only imagine the degree of danger police will be subject to in approaching a homeless individual who will flatly refuse to go into provided housing. My concern is the number of those who will refuse is higher than we realize. Such a volatile situation for many - the homeless, those who work with homeless and the police departments.

Probably a lot less dangerous than serving eviction notices

[Laramie]

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...n/70080865007/

Thanks for posting this link.

[PhiAlpha]

Houston has taught us the first thing is to remove the excuse of no available housing. You build it and the people that want to be housed now have an easy choice.

Those that won't go are basically saying, "I don't want to be housed even for free and choose to live on the street and cause all types of problems". At that point, there is the political will to deal with them in a different way. Public safety takes priority and at the very least they can be chased off to places where they are not a direct threat to neighborhoods and businesses.

The plans don't say this outright because it will cause outrage. But that's effectively how all of this works.

Once there is housing, the police will approach these groups and tell them they can't remain and there are a bunch of different options. We can't force you to take advantage but you cannot stay here.

Couldn’t agree more. The city has to provide, maybe even force to a point, a housing option (with rules, etc) that provides services to the homeless before it can force anyone who either chooses not to take advantage of it or can’t abide by the rules (no drugs, etc) into mental institutions, jail or just away (but where do you push people who choose to be homeless and cause problems if not mental institutions or jail? If not downtown or near neighborhoods, where do they go?).