Classen Boulevard

[Pete]

The good news is OKC has tons of roads that are just too wide for the amount of traffic.

All around downtown and perhaps Classen and the city just narrowed Western between NW 18th & 23rd.

The stretch of 39th between Penn and Classen is also absurd. 4 full lanes, all residential, no sidewalks. Often, you see delivery vans and yardwork vehicles just parked in the right lane even though there is no shoulder. Traffic, of course, just goes around and people walk trails into grass.

NW 10th between Western and Penn is also silly (another 4-lane, 30 MPH road).

There are a bunch of them which should make it much easier to start adding dedicated bike lanes and pedestrian paths / sidewalks.

[PaddyShack]

Say what you will about our 4-lane roads, but I see this as actually a good thing. Definitely not the original intent of the city planners, but look how we have the groundwork in place for bike lanes and BRT lanes. Practically every street is a 4-lane road, I feel that traffic would move smoother if most roads were 2-lane. Up in PA for instance, very seldom do you see roads larger than 2-lanes except for interstates, toll roads, and one-way urban city streets. Most state highways and roads through the suburbs are 2-lane with sizable shoulders. With most towns more densely populated they seem to not have as much traffic issues as we see. Granted this could be the difference of having an endless grid versus free flowing roads that don't have lights every 1/4-mile or so...

[Ross MacLochness]

^^^not a bad thought. Paint and vertical delineators are cheap compared to having to build dedicated paths

[Pete]

^

23rd between Broadway and Classen is another great candidate for a road diet.

Broadway between 10th and 23rd... It's a long, long list.

[Urbanized]

i think completely opposite of you... i think once the infrastructure is in place... then it's time to start increasing density... to increase density now, without great public transit (or even good public transit) and being completely pedestrian unfriendly, is a terrible idea. forcing the demand to then hopefully get to the infrastructure to support that demand down the line, leads to bad design in infrastructure. whereas building the infrastructure now with great design and an overall plan would do a lot to encourage an increase in density, all on it's own without the need for laws requiring it.

I tend to agree with the "build it and they will come" methodology. Once you set the infrastructure areas that are typically considered less attractive become more plausible for developers. This also provides some continuity throughout the neighborhoods. Sidewalks, bus stops, proper lighting goes a long way in improving a desolate area. Obviously this is something that should be strategically done and with future development in mind.

I'm with you on this one.

It's a well-documented phenomenon at this point that well-built bicycle infrastructure creates use and demand. It actually makes a lot of sense as the bicycle version of induced demand, except that increasing bicycle use in lieu of some car travel has multiple societal benefits; it demonstrably increases retail sales in stores which front bike lanes, it encourages increased density in affected areas, it increases transit use, it provides proven health benefits to participants, and it even has been shown to improve the experience and transit time for the drivers of automobiles (seriously) as it tends to organize traffic and cause drivers to take fewer chances (which can result in auto/auto collisions, tie-ups, etc).

Here are some links for anyone interested in reading about this:

https://bicycletimesmag.com/if-you-b...demand-exists/

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/nyc-...es-in-4-years/

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/how-...cted-lane-use/

https://bicyclecoalition.org/our-cam....NpoPegjp.dpbs

https://www.redmond.gov/Transportati...MarkBikeLanes/

http://bike.lacity.org/if-you-build-it-they-will-come/

https://www.nctr.usf.edu/wp-content/....4_Cervero.pdf

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/if-...ridership.html

https://grist.org/cities/if-you-buil...sts-will-come/

http://spacestoplaces.blogs.realtor....hey-will-come/

[jedicurt]

It's a well-documented phenomenon at this point that well-built bicycle infrastructure creates use and demand. It actually makes a lot of sense as the bicycle version of induced demand, except that increasing bicycle use in lieu of some car travel has multiple societal benefits; it demonstrably increases retail sales in stores which front bike lanes, it encourages increased density in affected areas, it increases transit use, it provides proven health benefits to participants, and it even has been shown to improve the experience and transit time for the drivers of automobiles (seriously) as it tends to organize traffic and cause drivers to take fewer chances (which can result in auto/auto collisions, tie-ups, etc).

Here are some links for anyone interested in reading about this:

https://bicycletimesmag.com/if-you-b...demand-exists/

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/nyc-...es-in-4-years/

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/how-...cted-lane-use/

https://bicyclecoalition.org/our-cam....NpoPegjp.dpbs

https://www.redmond.gov/Transportati...MarkBikeLanes/

http://bike.lacity.org/if-you-build-it-they-will-come/

https://www.nctr.usf.edu/wp-content/....4_Cervero.pdf

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/if-...ridership.html

https://grist.org/cities/if-you-buil...sts-will-come/

http://spacestoplaces.blogs.realtor....hey-will-come/

as always sir... you provide us with a plethora of knowledge to digest!

[rte66man]

The good news is OKC has tons of roads that are just too wide for the amount of traffic.

The stretch of 39th between Penn and Classen is also absurd. 4 full lanes, all residential, no sidewalks. Often, you see delivery vans and yardwork vehicles just parked in the right lane even though there is no shoulder. Traffic, of course, just goes around and people walk trails into grass.

I know it is tangential to your point, but the reason 39th is that wide is it once was US66. 66 ran west from the Capital to Classen, then north on Classen to 39th, where it turned west to Warr Acres and Bethany. In the early 50's along with the completion of the Turner Turnpike, US66 was routed south along the NE Expressway (now I44) to the Classen traffic circle, then west to a new connecting expressway in front of Penn Square Mall (roughly the path of I44 today)

[PaddyShack]

I know it is tangential to your point, but the reason 39th is that wide is it once was US66. 66 ran west from the Capital to Classen, then north on Classen to 39th, where it turned west to Warr Acres and Bethany. In the early 50's along with the completion of the Turner Turnpike, US66 was routed south along the NE Expressway (now I44) to the Classen traffic circle, then west to a new connecting expressway in front of Penn Square Mall (roughly the path of I44 today)

Have they gone back to the original route now? I saw a couple of weeks ago the city had put up more Rt66 signs and there was a tweet of the Gold Dome building being on Rt66. I cannot for the life of me figure out the route between Edmond and Portland Ave...

[shawnw]

I suspect the signs were "Historic Rt 66" which would not be the same as current Rt 66, right?

[riflesforwatie]

Some news regarding bike infrastructure in the Classen Blvd corridor: The city has recently made some progress on the conversion of N Western Ave between W Sheridan Ave and NW 18. This is one of the Priority 4 routes in the original bikewalkokc plan where it was listed as partially funded. The general idea is to convert Western from 4 traffic lanes to 2, with Tier 1 protected bike lanes on either side of the road.

In the last month, they've been rebuilding at least portions of the sidewalks on both sides of Western from NW 4 to about NW 9. There's also now a sort of pocket park in the triangle formed by the two legs of Linwood Blvd and Western, just across from the OKCPS HQ. In preparation for bike lanes and the elimination of some traffic lanes, the Traffic and Transportation Committee approved the removal of the no left turn restriction when traveling northbound on Western at W Main St. They were also supposed to consider converting Western between NW 16 and NW 18 to "two-way" traffic to allow for protected bike lanes on both sides of the road. (Under the current traffic code, you can only have bike lanes that allow for travel in the same direction as vehicles, and since Western is northbound-only there the one-way designation needs to be changed. After the project is completed, the northbound slip lane will be bicycle-only and Western will have just one northbound vehicle lane with protected bike lanes on either side of the road.) However, consideration of this second part was pushed to their September meeting.

[shawnw]

You forgot the part about how the TTC went a bit off the rails regarding the contraflow bike lane south of 18th and had to defer the decision a month to get input from a community that should have no purview over this road since they have closed themselves off to said road (e.g. at 17th, 16th).

[riflesforwatie]

^ Thanks for the info! I was just going off the minutes which of course don't record the interesting stuff - lol. The minutes just reflect the continuance but I wondered what the deal was since TTC approved the Main/Western part of the project and not the NW 16-18/Western part.

[DoctorTaco]

^ Thanks for the info! I was just going off the minutes which of course don't record the interesting stuff - lol. The minutes just reflect the continuance but I wondered what the deal was since TTC approved the Main/Western part of the project and not the NW 16-18/Western part.

The meeting was loooong and boring. The contractor thought that getting the approval through was a no-brainer and arrived with no real sales pitch wahtsoever nor prepared in any way to discuss the matter. Unfortunately the motion was written in such a confusing way that the entire traffic commission thought that they were approving changing the two blocks of Western between 16th and 18th to two way vehicular traffic and after kicking that around for ten minutes (and being very favorable to the notion) someone let them know that no, in fact, the motion is to make it two way for bicycles only and remove one lane of vehicular traffic.

Several years ago the Mesta/Heritage folks made an unsolicited proposal to the city to change a great deal of things both within and surrounding the neighborhood in order to reduce traffic passing through their neighborhood. Part of this proposal was to make that stretch of Western two way, presumably in an attempt to reduce folks who come southbound on Western from making the turn onto 18th and proceeding south on Shartel. Since they were many of them familiar with this old proposal the traffic commission seemed to think that this was what they were voting on. As I said, the contractor(s) bringing forward the proposal did nobody any favors by being vague and passive on the issue.

After the true thrust of the thing became clear the meeting really went off the rails with the commissioners making bad faith arguments about bike lanes and traffic counts etc. The mood turned quickly against the motion and it was deferred for one month to the September 20 meeting. My read of the room is that the motion is likely to fail.

I will be in attendance to speak in favor of the motion from a pedestrian safety perspective and I am on the hunt for a bicycle advocate to speak in favor of it from that angle. Please contact Stuart Chai stuart.chai@okc.gov and your City Council member if you are in favor of this motion. And also if you are available to speak in-person at the September 20 Traffic Commission meeting at 1:30 PM please send me a message so we can coordinate.

[Plutonic Panda]

I really don’t like large buffers between cycle lanes and car lanes that are asphalt with delineators. I wish they’d be actual raised medians with landscaping. LA is horrible about wasted pavement space and only increases the urban heat island effect.

[Rover]

Drove up Classen this morning and was impressed with how manicured and nice the green medians looked, especially through the Asian district. But the whole stretch from NW Exp to downtown seemed well groomed.

[riflesforwatie]

If TTC denies their approval for the proposed change, do you know if can it be appealed to Council? Or can Council "pull" it out of TTC and vote on it directly? Seems weird or wrong that TTC could put the kibosh on it when the original project was already approved (I think) by Council in late 2020 and when the funding is already in place.

[warreng88]

City of OKC just tweeted out that bike lanes will be coming to Classen from NW 10th to NW 16th. Beginning Mid-May, contractors will stripe Classen to include bike lanes designated by green paint, bike symbols and delineators.

[TheTravellers]

City of OKC just tweeted out that bike lanes will be coming to Classen from NW 10th to NW 16th. Beginning Mid-May, contractors will stripe Classen to include bike lanes designated by green paint, bike symbols and delineators.

Hope the delineators are actually the stand-up poles, otherwise it's just paint on a street and not a real bike lane.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah I’m not a fan of this at all. Just cheap and lazy urban planning. If they’re going to remove a lane on Classen why the hell didn’t they do it for the BRT project and make it a bus only lane? There’s more than enough room to add a two way protected cycleway along the entire length of Classen.

This is yet another example of OKC not understanding how real mass/alternative transit works in actual big cities. It would have taken complex engineering and planning as it would’ve taken some parking away which would need to be substituted and some mature trees would have to go but it in the future we’ll be glad we did it.

So now we’re just going to create bottlenecks and quasi bike lanes. Amateur hour.

[Midtowner]

Yeah I’m not a fan of this at all. Just cheap and lazy urban planning. If they’re going to remove a lane on Classen why the hell didn’t they do it for the BRT project and make it a bus only lane? There’s more than enough room to add a two way protected cycleway along the entire length of Classen.

This is yet another example of OKC not understanding how real mass/alternative transit works in actual big cities. It would have taken complex engineering and planning as it would’ve taken some parking away which would need to be substituted and some mature trees would have to go but it in the future we’ll be glad we did it.

So now we’re just going to create bottlenecks and quasi bike lanes. Amateur hour.

I'm so glad we're going to shut down car lanes used by hundreds of cars per day, maybe thousands, and instead have bike lanes for the 16 bikes per day. Solid effort.

[TheTravellers]

I'm so glad we're going to shut down car lanes used by hundreds of cars per day, maybe thousands, and instead have bike lanes for the 16 bikes per day. Solid effort.

Build it and they will come?

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm so glad we're going to shut down car lanes used by hundreds of cars per day, maybe thousands, and instead have bike lanes for the 16 bikes per day. Solid effort.

Dude, either way, this is a stupid project. I’d be fine keeping Classen at six lanes but creating a bottleneck here at some pathetic attempt to build out a bike lane network is just dumb. Either go all the way or plan it somewhere else. I’m not a traffic planner but it doesn’t take one to see how dumb this BRT and bike lane thing is. It isn’t going to do anything to help with traffic nor will it significantly change the culture of most people commuting by car in OKC.

Personally I think Classen should be reduced from 6 to 4 lanes with a bus lanes on the right lane and right turns for cars restricted to certain streets. Then multiple bridges should be built over the Classen/Northwest Expressway intersection and Northwest Expressway having true BRT with a double bus highway running in the median of NWE with bridges over each intersection.

A two way cycleway constructed on the east side of Classen and on each side of NWE. It would be an expensive project but worth it in the end. If that can’t be justified then why is this stupid bike lane project taking up an entire lane of traffic which will create bottlenecks at rush hour justified?

Half assing things never works.

[onthestrip]

Yeah I’m not a fan of this at all. Just cheap and lazy urban planning. If they’re going to remove a lane on Classen why the hell didn’t they do it for the BRT project and make it a bus only lane? There’s more than enough room to add a two way protected cycleway along the entire length of Classen.

This is yet another example of OKC not understanding how real mass/alternative transit works in actual big cities. It would have taken complex engineering and planning as it would’ve taken some parking away which would need to be substituted and some mature trees would have to go but it in the future we’ll be glad we did it.

So now we’re just going to create bottlenecks and quasi bike lanes. Amateur hour.

They already reduced classen to 2 lanes each way at 13th for the giant BRT stops/loading areas. I guess it doesnt make much difference to keep it reduced for a few more blocks.

[GoGators]

I'm so glad we're going to shut down car lanes used by hundreds of cars per day, maybe thousands, and instead have bike lanes for the 16 bikes per day. Solid effort.

Classen doesn't have enough traffic count to justify 6 lanes. It should be reduced to 4 lanes regardless of a any added bike lane. Drivers wont even notice. Should have been done years ago. I'm sure this is an extremely popular proposal among the people who live near this stretch of Classen.

[Plutonic Panda]

They already reduced classen to 2 lanes each way at 13th for the giant BRT stops/loading areas. I guess it doesnt make much difference to keep it reduced for a few more blocks.

Right but what I’m saying is they should reduce the lanes for the ENTIRE road not just this small stretch. Give it dedicated bus lanes and add a cycleway on the east side.

This is what I’m talking about but obviously it wouldn’t have tall buildings and it would be on each side of the street and/or the cycleway would two ways.