Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[Snowman]

Isnt the Oklahoma river just a fancy name for the north canadian river............

Yea, it was mostly branding for events, since their was some hopes to create statewide or regional draws.

[OKCisOK4me]

Oklahoma city is NOT in a water crisis

Tell that to the person who I saw walking out on Lake Hefner today. My guess is he got at least 500 feet in off the "old" shore line, lol.

[Snowman]

Tell that to the person who I saw walking out on Lake Hefner today. My guess is he got at least 500 feet in off the "old" shore line, lol.

While we are at a concerning point, should be trying to conserve water and are being negatively affected. It probably is too early to say it is a crisis for the metro.

[LandRunOkie]

Oklahoma city is NOT in a water crisis

This post finally convinces me you must be bursting at the seams with nonsense.

[ljbab728]

No, I usually just watch News9 and read news stories online. I have seen it a few times here and there.

I might not be a good idea, then, to complain about something not being in the headlines when you don't read the headlines. LOL

[Plutonic Panda]

I might not be a good idea, then, to complain about something not being in the headlines when you don't read the headlines. LOL

Well, you're probably right. What I meant was, that it just seems like no one is really concerned about it and I would think looking at pictures of lakes around parts of the state and being at Hefner and witnessing first hand how low the lake is, I would just think it would be discussed. I haven't really heard much of it on any local news station and certainly haven't heard from anybody I know(except like 2 people). That's all.

[ljbab728]

Well, you're probably right. What I meant was, that it just seems like no one is really concerned about it and I would think looking at pictures of lakes around parts of the state and being at Hefner and witnessing first hand how low the lake is, I would just think it would be discussed. I haven't really heard much of it on any local news station and certainly haven't heard from anybody I know(except like 2 people). That's all.

I agree that it isn't much of a topic of conversation among people I talk to on a daily basis, but that hardly means that no one is really concerned about it. I have heard a lot about it on local news stations.

[Achilleslastand]

Nothing like a little dirt in your mouth while biking around the lake due to all the dirt being blown.
What a blight and an eyesore......

[1972ford]

I'm gonna end up going to the great lakes for my fishing this.

[MarkAFuqua]

I can't speak to the whole of OKC being in a water crisis, but I can promise you that if this drought continues the 200,000 plus people who rely on water from Canton Lake will be in a water crisis very very soon.

[Plutonic Panda]

Low lake levels leave plenty of ground for metal detectors to cover | NewsOK.com

[Matt]

I can't speak to the whole of OKC being in a water crisis, but I can promise you that if this drought continues the 200,000 plus people who rely on water from Canton Lake will be in a water crisis very very soon.

[Just the facts]

Some of you still aren't seeing the big picture. While this is a basic supply and demand problem, far too many are focusing on supply as the problem when the real problem is on the demand side. The bottom line is most of us are living a lifestyle (me included) that is beyond the means of mother nature to supply the resources for. Across the annual rainfall spectrum we are increasingly only having enough rain in years at the top end of the scale. Normal rainfall is no longer enough and when below annual rainfall years occur the dust hits the fan quickly. We have the same problem here in Florida - almost every year. At least we have one advantage in Florida - desalination.

Over the next 20 years hundreds of thousands of people will move to OKC. Where is the water to supply these people going to come from? Conservation alone isn't going to get us there. You can put all the low-flow shower heads on, flush on every 3rd trip to the bathroom, turn the water off while you brush your teeth, etc..., but none of that means crap vs. pouring 15,000 gallons of water on your yard every month. The next 250,000 people moving to OKC have to live on the same water supply we are struggling with today, in fact, to solve this problem we have to be using LESS water in 20 years than we are today.

And of course, having enough water to drink is only a small part of the problem. There are serious downstream environmental problems that occur when too much water is siphoned off upstream. Just to give you an example, the mighty Colorado River that created the Grand Canyon and fills huge lakes - goes dry 20 miles from the ocean. Billions of gallons of water that used to drain into the Gulf of California no longer make it there. The same thing is occurring with many rivers west of the Appalachian Mountains.

[Snowman]

Over the next 20 years hundreds of thousands of people will move to OKC. Where is the water to supply these people going to come from?

The current plan is building a parallel pipeline to the Atoka pipeline, that will go on to Lake Sardis after that. I think the construction timeframe was around 2015-2016. Another lake similar to Draper's size will be created near it.

[Just the facts]

The current plan is building a parallel pipeline to the Atoka pipeline, that will go on to Lake Sardis after that. I think the construction timeframe was around 2015-2016. Another lake similar to Draper's size will be created near it.

And where is the water going to come from to fill this new lake? All the water is already accounted for. We can't make it rain more than it is already raining. Is the long-term plan to not allow a single river leaving Oklahoma to have water in it when it crosses the state line?

What river is leaving Oklahoma with too much water in it?

[Snowman]

And where is the water going to come from to fill this new lake? All the water is already accounted for. We can't make it rain more than it is already raining. Is the long-term plan to not allow a single river leaving Oklahoma to have water in it when it crosses the state line?

The lake is not new it was completed in the eighties, with intentions to sell water to municipalities and industry to cover the construction cost, we would still be the first to get water from it. OKC purchased 90% of the water rights from the either the state or feds a few years ago.

[law]

The problem with Canton/Hefner water supply is here now. Not years in the future. Some experts say Hefner has about 20,000 a/ft available for use, and they suggest that will last until April. The Canton draw will be 30,000 a/ft. At least 30% (some say as high as 50%) will be lost to riverbed etc. It's a basic math problem, 20,000 a/ft will last a little over 2 months in the winter. 30,000 less 30% leaves 21,000 a/ft, about the same amount you have now to begin the summer. If it lasts about the same amount of time, Hefner water users may have a serious water problem mid to late summer. If we have a really wet spring, there may be no problems, but if we have more drought above Canton there will be no fill, and therefore, NO water. The earlier OKC takes water from Canton, the more dangerous the situation becomes. It is possible, by waiting, there will be rainfall, and fill Hefner enough to save the water in Canton. Hard to believe, but what's good for Canton Lake may be good for OKC too.

[Plutonic Panda]

Some of you still aren't seeing the big picture. While this is a basic supply and demand problem, far too many are focusing on supply as the problem when the real problem is on the demand side. The bottom line is most of us are living a lifestyle (me included) that is beyond the means of mother nature to supply the resources for. Across the annual rainfall spectrum we are increasingly only having enough rain in years at the top end of the scale. Normal rainfall is no longer enough and when below annual rainfall years occur the dust hits the fan quickly. We have the same problem here in Florida - almost every year. At least we have one advantage in Florida - desalination.

Over the next 20 years hundreds of thousands of people will move to OKC. Where is the water to supply these people going to come from? Conservation alone isn't going to get us there. You can put all the low-flow shower heads on, flush on every 3rd trip to the bathroom, turn the water off while you brush your teeth, etc..., but none of that means crap vs. pouring 15,000 gallons of water on your yard every month. The next 250,000 people moving to OKC have to live on the same water supply we are struggling with today, in fact, to solve this problem we have to be using LESS water in 20 years than we are today.

And of course, having enough water to drink is only a small part of the problem. There are serious downstream environmental problems that occur when too much water is siphoned off upstream. Just to give you an example, the mighty Colorado River that created the Grand Canyon and fills huge lakes - goes dry 20 miles from the ocean. Billions of gallons of water that used to drain into the Gulf of California no longer make it there. The same thing is occurring with many rivers west of the Appalachian Mountains.

Just curious. I understand how expensive this is, But what are the chances that a pipeline could be built from the ocean to Dallas, OKC, and other cities Semi-close to the ocean with water problems?

[Snowman]

Just curious. I understand how expensive this is, But what are the chances that a pipeline could be built from the ocean to Dallas, OKC, and other cities Semi-close to the ocean with water problems?

That really is an option of last resort, desalination itself is pretty expensive compared to conventional techniques due to the power requirements even if you are next to the ocean. The section of the Keystone pipeline between Cushing and the ocean will cost around two billion and it is only 30 inches, we will need a bigger one even if the OKC was the only customer. The existing Atoka pipeline is 72 inches.

[law]

There are other possibilities. Kaw has some water available, and is closer than the ocean. OKC must work on the problem now. As they continue to grow, one little lake in the most arid part of the state cannot keep up with OKC's water demands, especially in these extreme conditions NW OK has had for the last few years.

[Plutonic Panda]

That really is an option of last resort, desalination itself is pretty expensive compared to conventional techniques due to the power requirements even if you are next to the ocean. The section of the Keystone pipeline between Cushing and the ocean will cost around two billion and it is only 30 inches, we will need a bigger one even if the OKC was the only customer. The existing Atoka pipeline is 72 inches.

Yeah I hear you. I heard a bunch of towns in Australia are resorting to desalination. I don't know exactly how expensive it is to just do that, but I know they are spending something like 5 billion over 10 years to build plants to do it. I wonder how many places in U.S. actually do this.

[MarkAFuqua]

I think you may have missed my point Matt, or maybe I am misunderstanding your photo directed at my comment. The 200,000 I speak of are the many, they are the residents of OKC that depend on the water from Canton Lake. I am just stating the fact that if we continue in this drought, there will be no more water from Canton lake for them to send to Hefner and according to the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust there is no back up plan in place for them to capture water for those 200,000 residents.

I would also like to take this time and go on record as stating, I am in no way against the great people of OKC. I have many friends and family that reside there. I am however extremely disappointed in the efforts of the people in charge of providing the water to these 200,000 thousand plus people, that would be the organization I mentioned above. They have done little until just recently as far as educating the fine folks of OKC that there is a problem. They have not done due diligence in securing an alternative water supply for the people who depend on Canton Lake water and they have done little to encourage conservation. I don't blame the people of OKC themselves because we are all creatures of habit and until someone educates us to the fact that there is a problem, we will all go on doing things "business as usual".

I would like to commend the people in charge of the water for the mandatory rationing they just implemented, but I honestly can't. I can't because one of the professionals from that organization sat in the meeting with the Canton Lake Association last week and stated that "even and odd watering really doesn't do much for conserving water it only dictates the demand on the pumping equipment." Also, I really can't see how it's going to help much in the winter when most intelligent folks are not pouring thousands of gallons of precious water on their lawns on a regular schedule multiple times a week in the dead of winter. I will call it out for what I see it as, a PR stunt to hush the voices who see the devastation that is about to take place at lakes around the state, and are calling for answers as to why measures haven't been taken sooner. They are trying to silence the squeaky wheels by now implementing the rationing and also to be able to say they "did something" when people come to realize how serious this issue is and start asking questions.

Now back to your picture, the people in charge of OKC water are certainly more than willing to wreck the lives of a "few" hard working western OK business owners and their employees, to pay for their sins of not educating the people and enforcing water conservation and rationing practices sooner so they can save face in front of the "many".

[law]

Good job, Mark!

[Snowman]

Yeah I hear you. I heard a bunch of towns in Australia are resorting to desalination. I don't know exactly how expensive it is to just do that, but I know they are spending something like 5 billion over 10 years to build plants to do it. I wonder how many places in U.S. actually do this.

Not too many, some of that technology along with bacteria killing methods have been used in a few cities to clean waste water for use as tap water for that same city. Yea it does not sound particularly appealing but most places have both other cities waste output and run off from animals and fertilizer upstream anyway.

[Just the facts]

A few items:

1) Building more lakes is not the answer - in fact, that is the problem. Only so much water passes through Oklahoma and building more lakes is just chasing dimensioning returns. The idea of a lake in general is that it catches and holds runoff at above normal times for use later during below normal time. The problem is when you past the half-way point and demand is higher than what can be produced in an average year. You can have all the storage capacity you want but if there isn't rainwater to fill it then big deal. The more capacity we build the more rainfall it takes to fill it and we can't make it rain any more than it already is. If our capacity can only be filled by extreme wet years then we are just setting ourselves up for even bigger future problems. I can open all the checking accounts I want but it doesn't change the fact my income doesn't change, I just have more place to keep it.

2) Reclaimed water can help but it doesn't take long for demand to outpace the supply of that was well. We have been using reclaimed water here in Florida for 20 years and guess what - we still have water shortages every year. Increasing supply is nothing more than kicking the can down the road. At one time a family in Oklahoma could live on a 3,000 gallon cistern fed by rain falling on their roof. A family today would burn through that in about 10 days.

3) Desalination is not even an option for Oklahoma. A desalination plant cost more than the entire Oklahoma State annual budget. And even if you could pipe ocean water to Oklahoma, that is only half the battle because you have to pump the brine back to the ocean. The amount of electricity needed to move the water, turn it into drinking water, and pump the brine back to the ocean would require a new power plant in Oklahoma. Sure you can pump oil, but oil sells for $100 barrel. I don't know anyone willing to pay $100 per barrel of ocean water.