Tinker AFB

[bwana_bob]

For all the naysayers, how do you see this land being used if it not by the base? No one is going to buy it and tear down the existing set of structures so you have to assume that a large manufacturer would move to this location or expand to this location. Otherwise, it is Oklahoma County chasing the MG plant and similar. If you look at the Lucent complex, it sold for a pittance and is being used for an operation that is system intensive but job poor, relatively speaking. You won't get a huge infusion of money into the economy from payroll or taxes in that deal.

[hipsterdoofus]

For all the naysayers, how do you see this land being used if it not by the base?

Is it a requirement that all land be purchased and used for economic development? If thats the case, theres a lot of empty pasture in OK county that the taxpayers need to buy up.

[bwana_bob]

Last I checked, this thread was about Tinker and bond election to purchase the former GM plant. I didn't realize it included every cow pasture in the county. I knew I should have read the fine print.

It seems to me that if you want to chain yourself to the construction fence around a nuclear power plant to stop it from being built, you should have the forethought to consider an alternative solution because after all, they weren't building the nuclear power plant to provide you with a place to attach your chain, they were trying to generate power. There are myriad ways to generate power just as there are myriad ways to address the on-topic issue of a large, dormant manufacturing plant that is otherwise facing a glacial decline into compost.

[foodiefan]

Re: the utlization (capacity) issue. . .I'm certain thcurrent ALC Commander is well aware of the methodology used by the AF to compute utlization/capacity under the BRAC rules. . .and I'm equally as sure that if it had the potential of putting the ALC at risk of closure, this whole issue would have never seen the light of day. In addition, Robert Conner, retired Executive Director (preceded Gen Reno in his position as ALC Commander) was FOR the issue (editorial in the Daily Oklahoman). . .and he has been through more than one BRAC. . .and at other locations other than Tinker. Bottom line. . .you never know what tomorrow will bring, but you'd better not bury your head in the sand when it comes to growth and expansion for the future.

[mmonroe]

Ok... but isn't GM still paying property tax, even if it just sits there?

[SoonerDave]

Re: the utlization (capacity) issue. . .I'm certain thcurrent ALC Commander is well aware of the methodology used by the AF to compute utlization/capacity under the BRAC rules. . . Bottom line. . .you never know what tomorrow will bring, but you'd better not bury your head in the sand when it comes to growth and expansion for the future.

So, of course, you chose to follow the lead of those esteemed county commissioners, eh?

Ah, yes, someone else who drank the Vaughn kool-aid...

That's the whole point of this issue - there's not one shred of proof that so much as one day of additional longevity or one penny's worth of additional employment will come as a result of this boondoggle. Further, we have absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that the funding generated by the increased property taxes will even be used to purchase the GM plant should those benevolent county commissioners discover some other "urgent" project under the heading of "economic development" that needs the funding worse.

Did anyone hear that those same Tinker leaders said it would take "considerable" monies to revamp the plant into something usable, whatever that might be? There's a stairstep implicit here - first, you have to identify the work; then you have to decide if the plant is adequate for it, then you have to assess the cost of retooling it, then you solicit funding for it. That's a loooong way from the "thousands of jobs" the "friends" of Tinker promised.

What is certain is that the poor property-owning saps in Oklahoma County will be zapped with a tax bill to finance this scheme, and they'll never know just whom is truly profiting. If we had a truly investigative news source in Oklahoma, we might find out who the winner in this Ponzi scheme -- the promise of vapor jobs for "just a few pennies" of your hard-earned tax dollars - really is.

And color me skeptical, but I have a sneaking suspicion it isn't gonna be the taxpayers.

Wonder how long before we find Gene Stipe hooked into it somehow :sarcasm

[foodiefan]

this is sincerely not meant as a cheap shot, but, the best analogy I can come up with is . . .sorry. . . don't have the time, energy, or inclination to explain try and calculus to those haven't yet mastered 3rd grade math. And it doesn't have anything to do with the County Commissioners. . . .it's the business end of the largest single site employer in the State of Oklahoma. Whether you care if it is "government" or not, it's a fact. Further, I'm not into Kool-Ade. . .I'd much prefer Caymus. . .

[Easy180]

I'm normally pretty trusting of leaders until they prove otherwise so I see nothing sinister in this plot to defraud the taxpayers of OKC

With a grand total of 3 or 4 major employers in the metro I am all for enhancing the prospects of the largest as long as it's not outrageous...Tinker gets shut down or severely downsized we are all hurting big time

[Redskin 70]

Did anyone hear that those same Tinker leaders said it would take "considerable" monies to revamp the plant into something usable, whatever that might be? There's a stairstep implicit here - first, you have to identify the work; then you have to decide if the plant is adequate for it, then you have to assess the cost of retooling it, then you solicit funding for it. That's a loooong way from the "thousands of jobs" the "friends" of Tinker promised.

:sarcasm

Yes and those same Tinker officials have publicly committed $100million towards the necessary up grades to the plant in Federal money.

Further there are numerous old buildings currently on Tinker that will be shut down and torn down and the work moved to the facility.

Third, I believe I mentioned this had the endorsement of the Secretary of the Air Force. I DONT believe the Generals and commanders of TINKER would have came out for this without the approval from on high.

Further the Air Force is working towards private sector tenents for the unused portion of the building.

Further General Reno has also went through BRAC closures. And he has publicaly stated the He is NOT worried about another BRac Attack.

Further I would rather believe a current active two star general rather than a retired general that has been removed from several different positions because of his mouth.

Further there were numerous public breifings given which included Tinker officials who supported this acquistion.

Further Bob Conners a retired SES'er from tinker who was the former ALC commander

Robert J. Conner, a member of the Senior Executive Service, is Director, Oklahoma City Air Logistics Center, Tinker Air Force Base, Okla. He is responsible for the 72nd Air Base Wing, as well as the center's Combat Sustainment, Aircraft Sustainment and Maintenance wings.

Further, who ya gonna believe..................I chose who I would believe based on the information presented and based on personal knowledge of the truthful nature of the person involved.

Further when the move occurs and the jobs are relocated I will be sure to re-resurect this thread to show you .....you were wrong............maybe.
Time and only time will tell..........

[mmonroe]

Wow, what a grudge.

[foodiefan]

Redskin 70: Plaudits!!

[andy157]

To correct some misinformation.
The Senior base commanders Col. Correll was and is in favor of this acquisition. The Two star General on the base , General Reno, wants this deal. the One star General on this base, General Robinson, wants this deal. the Secretary of the Air Force, wants this. Actually numerous area Mayors and cities have came out for this deal.

Now Why would a current serving TWO STAR GENERAL who certainly has more information on the status of Tinker be for a purchase like this and a two star general retired over twenty years be butting heads so publicly?????

Im sorry but I think I will go with the active duty officer at the base......

And lets not forget this self same retired general was dismissed from the Oklahoma CIty chamber of commerce for supporting positions the Chamber did not support.

Sounds and looks to me that he was dismissed for NOT supporting a position on an issue that the Chamber DID support.

[andy157]

Ok... but isn't GM still paying property tax, even if it just sits there?

Yes. But that will soon be a thing of the past.

[andy157]

So, of course, you chose to follow the lead of those esteemed county commissioners, eh?

Ah, yes, someone else who drank the Vaughn kool-aid...

That's the whole point of this issue - there's not one shred of proof that so much as one day of additional longevity or one penny's worth of additional employment will come as a result of this boondoggle. Further, we have absolutely no guarantee whatsoever that the funding generated by the increased property taxes will even be used to purchase the GM plant should those benevolent county commissioners discover some other "urgent" project under the heading of "economic development" that needs the funding worse.

Did anyone hear that those same Tinker leaders said it would take "considerable" monies to revamp the plant into something usable, whatever that might be? There's a stairstep implicit here - first, you have to identify the work; then you have to decide if the plant is adequate for it, then you have to assess the cost of retooling it, then you solicit funding for it. That's a loooong way from the "thousands of jobs" the "friends" of Tinker promised.

What is certain is that the poor property-owning saps in Oklahoma County will be zapped with a tax bill to finance this scheme, and they'll never know just whom is truly profiting. If we had a truly investigative news source in Oklahoma, we might find out who the winner in this Ponzi scheme -- the promise of vapor jobs for "just a few pennies" of your hard-earned tax dollars - really is.

And color me skeptical, but I have a sneaking suspicion it isn't gonna be the taxpayers.

Wonder how long before we find Gene Stipe hooked into it somehow :sarcasm

Yep, this is one scam they can't blame on "ole" Gene. He's not the Vice-Chair of the Chambers Aviation and Aerospace Committee.

[hipsterdoofus]

Ok... but isn't GM still paying property tax, even if it just sits there?

I guess not as of September! So we just did the federal govt a favor AND GM one also (Hey thanks for leaving, GM, let us take this burden off of you now!)

[DavidGlover]

Follow the money, asks who benefits. 2000 more voters decided a property tax increase was good for all home owners in the city.

[mmonroe]

I bet that 2000 don't even own their own homes...

[hipsterdoofus]

Follow the money, asks who benefits. 2000 more voters decided a property tax increase was good for all home owners in the city.

Yeah its not really worth beating a dead horse...its done...still not real happy about it..time to move on though.

[kevinpate]

... 2000 more voters decided a property tax increase was good for all home owners in the city.

Is that a real issue for you David? Would it have been better, or worse, from your perspective, if the outcome of the vote had been based on a majority of 200 or 20,000 rather than 2000?

Like the outcome or hate the outcome, the number who care enough to vote, in either direction, will always have more say than the multitudes who can't turn off the x-box, telly or set aside their freakin' spiderman paint by numbers sets for a mere 20 minutes.

[mmonroe]

.... freakin' spiderman paint by numbers sets...

Where can I get one?

[kevinpate]

craigslist?

[mmonroe]

HA!

Maybe we should have put the GM plant on craigslist...

[oneforone]

Now Why would a current serving TWO STAR GENERAL who certainly has more information on the status of Tinker be for a purchase like this and a two star general retired over twenty years be butting heads so publicly?????

Im sorry but I think I will go with the active duty officer at the base......

And lets not forget this self same retired general was dismissed from the Oklahoma CIty chamber of commerce for supporting positions the Chamber did not support.

I will tell you why he supported the sTinker vote, the chamber has a nice cushy job or a few "speaking engagements" lined up for him as soon as he retires. Not mention I am sure a nice little thank you kick back is waiting for him after retirement.

[OSUFan]

Deleted

[DavidGlover]

Hi Kevin, Nice to see someone using their own name. You are right about the numbers. Majority wins, but so few/by percentage are actually voting. Special elections massively favor special interests. It is for moneyed interest to sway and roll out a small subset of votes to get issues passed that benefit their interest. It is difficult for disparate opposition to battle against these kind of things. I believe if more people understood the issue the outcomes would be different - difficult to change but some of us are working on it.