OKC Public Schools

[Pete]

They may not have agreed with every decision but there have been many who have generally liked certain superintendents.
Nue without doubt was the most disliked and it’s probably fair to say the most hated, at least in memory.

It’s also fair to say that a small but very vocal segment of teachers will complain about anything and everything no matter who leads them.

They always dislike the current person the most.

[ou48A]

They always dislike the current person the most.

I don’t think that's really fair to say about the older teachers who pretty well recognize the situation for what it really is. Most of the teachers I know are mid 50’s + and have husbands making 6 figures.....Or are otherwise pretty secure in life

[Pete]

^

They think that every time someone leaves, are all optimistic when they hire someone new, then end up chasing them off too. Repeat, ad nauseum.

[ou48A]

^

They think that every time someone leaves, are all optimistic when they hire someone new, then end up chasing them off too. Repeat, ad nauseum.

Your right and that’s why IMHO the mold needs to be broken and community / state involvement is needed to make sure they find a very tough person who has high integrity!

The person needs to come from our community/state and be someone who will not cut and run from a fight. They need to clean up the cronyism, corruption, waste and horrible discipline / criminal behavior in the class rooms. This alone would keep some good teachers from leaving the district for out of state locations.

[Celebrator]

^

They think that every time someone leaves, are all optimistic when they hire someone new, then end up chasing them off too. Repeat, ad nauseum.

And sadly for our country, this is quite the same in most large urban districts. I witnessed it in my teaching career out of state as well.

[turnpup]

A colleague of mine and I were discussing this and he mentioned that the average tenure of school superintendents *nationwide* is only 18 months. So it's apparently not just an Oklahoma problem.

[Zuplar]

A colleague of mine and I were discussing this and he mentioned that the average tenure of school superintendents *nationwide* is only 18 months. So it's apparently not just an Oklahoma problem.

Very interesting, I did not know that. I know Moore's superintendent seems to be well liked by parents and teachers. My neighbor was a teacher and always had nice things to say about Dr. Romines. I've personally spoke with him too and found him to be very easy to talk, as well as found out he only lives about a mile down the road from me. I guess when you find a good one you need to work to keep them.

[Pete]

Considering the poor state of our schools, I'm not so sure we should be relying on the opinion of people who have little outside perspective.

Then, when an outsider is brought in because big changes are needed, the troops rally against them and force them out.

School superintendents are like coaches: easy to blame and fire when things aren't going well instead of fixing underlying problems that no one really wants to take on, despite what they say in public.

[Eric]

There are those that buck the trend. Bartlesville's superintendent of 17+ years Gary Quinn just retired (health reasons shortened what may have been more years) and he was replaced (to everyone's delight apparently) by longtime administrator in the district Chuck McCauley. Quinn was considered to be one of the lowest paid superintendents in the state, yet remained at his post for quit some time, and to great success. There were things he did that people did not care for (as a leader always runs in to), but in general he was widely respected. After his retirement was announced there was great fear (considering what had been going on in other districts) that it would be a monumental task to replace him. McCauley did have the added benefit of serving as the interim while Quinn was on medical leave as well.

The distinguishing factor between this district and OKC has got to be the success of the district. For the same reason private schools can pay less, a job at a school that is performing well has got to lead to better tenure statistics across the board. Through three grades my daughter has only had the opportunity to be in a class of a new teacher one time (which she ended up in...unfortunately in my opinion but that's another story). So out of 9 potential teachers only 1 was new to the district the year my daughter was entering that grade. That seems pretty low to me. And we live in an extremely diverse elementary school district.

I know Bartlesville like other districts is fretting over the looming budget problems, but I think I understand that no teachers or admins will actually be let go in the current plan. No one will be replaced. It will hurt still.

[OSUFan]

I'm not sure comparing Bartlesville to OKC is exactly fair.

[Swake]

I'm not sure comparing Bartlesville to OKC is exactly fair.

Bartlesville is not the same thing at all as the inner city districts. The only comparable districts to OKC are Tulsa and maybe Lawton or Putnam City. Tulsa has a new superintendent, Dr Deborah Gist, she's Tulsa's 3rd superintendent in the last 10 years. Overall, I actually think Tulsa's a pretty good district. Gist came from Rhode Island and seems impressive so far. Dr Keith Ballard before her was in the job for six years and retired to teach at OSU-Tulsa.

TPS' troubles with test scores are more related to the facts that 87% of students live in poverty and almost 20% are English Language Learning students than any real institutional failures. I would assume that OKC's numbers and challenges are very similar.

Bartlesville is going to be more like Jenks which has only the second superintendent in almost 30 years. The newish superintendent, Stacy Butterfield, has been superintendent only since 2013 but has been at Jenks since she started as a classroom teacher more than 25 years ago. She replaced Dr Kirby Lehman who was superintendent at Jenks for 23 years. I really thought Lehman was going to run for state superintendent, but I strongly suspect he was the force behind Joy Hofmeister taking down Barresi. Hofmeister is from Jenks and was the head of the Jenks Public Schools Foundation, her son graduated from Jenks the same year as my daughter.

[Eric]

My point really was that they were hiring a known quantity. As opposed to going outside the district. Bartlesville runs a pretty tight budget, and is at least generally more diverse than most of the bedroom communities (no-where near what OKC/Tulsa are obviously).

I think generally Bartlesville schools hit above their ability. They are extremely focused and really could give a rats behind about sports. The community is pretty well off but no where near a Jenks/Bixby/Edmond/Norman. And less so since ConocoPhillips moved to Houston.

[Laramie]

I'm not sure comparing Bartlesville to OKC is exactly fair.

Good point!

Bartlesville is a much smaller district than OKCPS. Bartlesville has an enrollment of 6,000 pupils to the state's largest district (OKCPS) that has a total enrollment of 41,000.

A city, similar in size to OKC (620,000) is Memphis (655,000); Memphis has over 100,000 pupils enrolled in their inner city schools.

It will be a difficult sell; however Oklahoma needs to do something like provide incentives to consolidate school district to trim the high administrative cost incurred with having all of these school districts.

27th Oregon - 4,028,977 (258 school districts)
28th Oklahoma - 3,911,338 (578 school districts)
29th Connecticut - 3,590,886 (166 school districts)

Oklahoma is top administrative heavy with all of these districts.

[Laramie]

Superintendents want their suspension numbers to be low; however, what are you willing to sacrifice to achieve that goal when most of the problems related to out-of-school suspensions are tied to the classroom. Big cities want their local school district(s) to be successful; because it's a feather in their cap for attracting new corporations, firms & businesses.

Principals & teachers can not run a school in which unruly children are allowed to disrupt the learning process within that building--all students suffer.

Oklahoma City Public Schools will have to make sacrifices. You have to get a handle on discipline through continuous training for teachers & support personnel on the process of how to handle these concerns. OKCPS have in-school suspension program; some schools have 'in-class' suspensions which is a holding place inside the in-school suspension center.

Now, does that mean 'long-term' suspension of students who are out-of-control (affects ADA) with the option of an alternative school setting until you can channel them back into the classroom or what. These are the questions we need to decide.

You can't save all children; discipline begins at home which is the sole responsibility of the parent(s). Good home discipline prepare students for school; it should filter over from home to school. The school should not be viewed by the community as a holding place for pupils while the parent(s) go to work (Teachers are not baby sitters for the parents or the community).

The biggest concern you hear from parents when children are suspended: "I have to work; we can't have him/her at home alone, what am I to do?" Again, preparation of the child begins at home.

[TexanOkie]

Neu statement: 'I have not resigned' | News OK

[turnpup]

To be fair, a lot of the issues with the perceived need for changes to suspensions came from the OCR (Office for Civil Rights). They cracked down nationwide on the racial disparities and urged large, urban districts to review and revise their policies in an attempt to fix the problem. So whatever Neu did (right or wrong...I have no personal opinion of him) was likely to have been responsive to the OCR.

[Jim Kyle]

To be fair, a lot of the issues with the perceived need for changes to suspensions came from the OCR (Office for Civil Rights). They cracked down nationwide on the racial disparities and urged large, urban districts to review and revise their policies in an attempt to fix the problem. So whatever Neu did (right or wrong...I have no personal opinion of him) was likely to have been responsive to the OCR.

I'm sure that this was the case, but it's typical of bureaucracies in general to force a "one size fits all" solution to a perceived problem, with no concern at all as to its effect in any individual situation.

I'm reminded of the way that Microsoft solved their problem of frequent error messages at the release of Windows 95: They changed the title of the message, then trumpeted that the old one was gone. The errors continued to plague users, but with a new name -- the only thing that had changed!

The suspension problem was similar. Setting a no-suspension policy certainly solved the problem of too many suspensions, but actually made the classroom-discipline problem worse. I have no simple solution to the discipline problem; the OKC Independent School District has been, in general, a failure for at least 55 years to my personal knowledge and problems become institutionalized in far less time than that. While it's always had dedicated teachers -- they're the only reason it's remained at all viable -- I can't say the same for its top administrators, or its governing board. They complain about lack of parental involvement, yet when parents attempt to participate, they're shunted aside and their concerns dismissed. Many of us found that the only way to fight the problem was with our hats: take them and run to a better environment. And this left the inner city system heavily unbalanced with the apathetic and indifferent.

[emtefury]

I caught the end of the meeting when the board went out of executive session via the live feed on newsok. The board president said Rob Nue is out of the office and the associate superintendent will assume responsibilities. They still have to discuss his employment...this is after 5 hours in executive session from 5:30 to 10:30. Being out of the office is an interesting term.

LIVE: Special Oklahoma City school board meeting to consider superintendent's future | NewsOK.com

[krisb]

I do not have an insider's perspective, but as an OKCPS parent I can say that the district administration needed an overhaul and Neu's emphasis on discipline reform and learner first initiatives was right on. It seems a good percentage welcomed his changes because they recognize the importance of the teacher-student relationship. The others seem to be jaded and burnt out and were ineffective teachers before he arrived.

[corwin1968]

I do not have an insider's perspective, but as an OKCPS parent I can say that the district administration needed an overhaul and Neu's emphasis on discipline reform and learner first initiatives was right on. It seems a good percentage welcomed his changes because they recognize the importance of the teacher-student relationship. The others seem to be jaded and burnt out and were ineffective teachers before he arrived.

This is painting with a broad brush.

I don't know much about Neu's curriculum initiatives but my perception was that the fact he was actually building a curriculum department for the district was a positive thing. The discipline issue is where he lost many excellent teachers. There was a disconnect between what Neu claimed to have told building administrators and what building administrators claimed he told them. All teachers know is that after Neu announced his initiative, a student pretty much had to commit a felony to get them out their class. Teachers tended to believe the building administrators' version of events rather than Neu's.

The rumor is that Neu leaves OKC on Thursday to travel "home" to Washington and then he returns to OKC on Monday, effectively working a 3-day week. Plus the district is rumored to pay for these flights. I have no idea how much of this is fact. Also, the union has been waging a smear campaign against Neu for quite some time.

I personally witnessed Neu telling a large group of largely hispanic students that as a demonstration of his commitment to them and OKCPS, he was going to learn to speak Spanish. I wonder how his Spanish lessons are coming?

[OSUFan]

The others seem to be jaded and burnt out and were ineffective teachers before he arrived.

I'm amazed by any teacher who has taught in the district for more than 3 years and isn't jaded.

[Tritone]

^^^ "Out of the office." Now that's a term we often hear when someone has just stepped out to lunch, or tending to company business, or perhaps running an errand. In all these cases the salary continues. Speculation, yes, but I personally attach this term to still being on the payroll. I can only hope that someday I can be paid not to come to work, particularly at the highest-salary slot in the organization.

[emtefury]

Looks like Aurora Lora the Ass Superintendent is gunning for the job with a listening tour. Acting OKC superintendent seeks stability for the district | NewsOK.com

I looked her up and she is a school jumper too, moving on to the next best thing. She left West Seattle Schools in 2012 to go to Dallas. West Seattle Blog? | West Seattle schools: Aurora Lora leaving the district

She left Dallas in 2014 to go to OKC. Assistant superintendent Aurora Lora is leaving Dallas ISD | | Dallas Morning News

[corwin1968]

OKC school board cuts ties with superintendent | News OK

[jn1780]

OKC school board cuts ties with superintendent | News OK

So did he just not show up for work one day?