Chesapeake empire marches on

[Pete]

I know they started with very strong sales numbers but I wonder if being a stand-alone retailer in that spot is going to work for them. Typically, they are found in malls and dense shopping districts.

I'm sure nobody is walking between there and Classen Curve. And Whole Foods doesn't provide the same type of traffic that other mall-type tenants would.

Even when that space to the west of them is filled and the area north of the creek is developed, they are somewhat on an island in that spot.

[ChargerAg]

I know they started with very strong sales numbers but I wonder if being a stand-alone retailer in that spot is going to work for them. Typically, they are found in malls and dense shopping districts.

I'm sure nobody is walking between there and Classen Curve. And Whole Foods doesn't provide the same type of traffic that other mall-type tenants would.

Even when that space to the west of them is filled and the area north of the creek is developed, they are somewhat on an island in that spot.

The whole area is strange how they don't make it more pedestrian friendly. It doesn't really make sense why they spread it out so much.

[onthestrip]

Anthropologie doesn't seem to attract many shoppers. I don't know if that is by design, if shoppers spend money in less-apparent ways, or if they're simply not performing well.

They probably aren't getting many shoppers just by themselves, or not as much as they should be. Most of the time these type of retailers have some co-tenancy requirements(being located next to other similar retailers) but here they obviously aren't. Makes me think it was that much more of a sweetheart lease from Aubrey just so they would go there.

[Pete]

Makes me think it was that much more of a sweetheart lease from Aubrey just so they would go there.

You can bet on that; same with Whole Foods and probably most everyone in Classen Curve as well.

[Spartan]

The whole area is strange how they don't make it more pedestrian friendly. It doesn't really make sense why they spread it out so much.

It would be pretty interesting to see some retailers not make it due to the suburban parking lot-centric site plan of all of these developments.

[Doug Loudenback]

In case this hasn't been posted, quite an article was posted in the Wall Street Journal on May 28.

[Lafferty Daniel]

In case this hasn't been posted, quite an article was posted in the Wall Street Journal on May 28.

Link didn't work for me. Here it is:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...188903240.html

[Spartan]

Well it was only a matter of time until what we've been thinking and feeling about this gets dragged into the national media.

[betts]

Anthropologie doesn't seem to attract many shoppers. I don't know if that is by design, if shoppers spend money in less-apparent ways, or if they're simply not performing well.

I think they're doing fine financially. I was told "better than expected". I think you'd probably find Anthropologie has more people going there to buy rather than just window shop. Places with high traffic may get more shoppers, but probably more lookers than buyers.

[Larry OKC]

Not saying that isn't the case, but many lookers become buyers....in other words, it is probably safe to say that most of the buyers started out as lookers??? Otherwise, might as well be "by appointment only"

[adaniel]

Just in case anyone doesn't think important people don't follow this site:

Chesapeake says Nichols Hills Plaza isn't for sale

In the past week or so, at least one local blogger and a widely followed discussion board passed along the rumor that the property was for sale.

[Pete]

Some Chesapeake campus photos. The scale of all of this is hard to comprehend unless you get out and walk (or at least try to). All the newer stuff east of Classen is a complete mess and feels quite separate from the "core" campus.

[Just the facts]

Any chance we could get Chesapeake to take over redevelopment of Lightning Creek and the Oklahoma River?

[HangryHippo]

[center]

Excellent photos, Pete! What is the building in this picture? Also, their campus landscape is top-notch.

As I'm not familiar with construction techniques at all, I have a question regarding Chesapeake's new buildings all having large basements. For example, their RTC lab that is under construction has been nothing but a basement for at least a month. What is the point? They have constructed all of their buildings this way on the SmithandPickel webcams, and I would like to know more about it.

[Pete]

^

That building just opened and is a big dining facility for employees.

As for the basements, I don't get it either as it adds tremendous expense and time to construction. You notice it takes them fully 2 years to open a building once it breaks ground. The entire Devon complex took only slightly longer.

[HangryHippo]

It won't happen now, but I really wish they had built their headquarters downtown. I believe it would have been a tremendous addition.

[Pete]

I walked around almost the entire complex and it's incredibly inefficient, as the buildings are already really spread out and they aren't even halfway done with their east campus projects. In some cases, those buildings will be almost a half mile apart.

I also noticed a bunch of people cutting across the grassy median on Classen and of course having great difficulty navigating around all the construction.

Consider the Devon setup where every single one of their employees were provided a home under one roof in just over two years and who can meet by merely pushing an elevator button. CHK has been building for over a decade, is nowhere close to being able to house all their employees on their campus (even after they complete their current construction) and they are scattered over the better part of a square mile. How many days in Oklahoma is it blazing hot, rainy, freezing, snowing or otherwise miserable to walk a quarter mile or so? Not to mention all time time wasted by employees having to hoof it all over campus.

CHK is also not a super casual dress code; business casual is the standard so it's not like you're going to see the company providing free bikes like they do at the Googleplex and other large campuses in California.


I will also say that I didn't see ANYONE walking to Classen Curve at lunch time. I had lunch at Republic yesterday and there were clearly lots of CHK people there, but I guarantee you every single one of them took a long walk to one of their parking structures, piled in their car, worked there way down several parking levels, drove across the street, ate, and did all of it again in reverse.

I also didn't see ANYONE going from the restaurants to the shops. Employees came there to eat, then left. In fact, I didn't see hardly anyone at Classen Curve shopping, and I've been there a few times now at different times during the day.


If your employees actually have to get in their cars to visit these establishments, what difference does it make if it's across the street or a few miles away?

The CHK argument that all this non-campus real estate development was needed to attract and retain the best and brightest was spurious at best but now I'm very sure -- especially given the way this has all been laid out -- it makes zero sense.

There were plenty of decent restaurants before CHK pulled them all down and NH Plaza is every bit as close if not closer than CC. Even if CHK hadn't bought NH Plaza, it would have retained and probably added to the restaurants, grocery, and shops that have always been there. And there has always been lots of good restaurants and shopping on N. Western that is just as close as CC.

[Pete]

I really hate to say this but I think Classen Curve just doesn't work and I don't think the planned expansion is going to make much difference.

I love the fact they tried to do something modern and new but the location makes no sense and it just doesn't work for retail. As a courtyard of restaurants, I've always thought it would do pretty well, and not coincidentally CHK just petitioned to allow more restaurants as part of the planned unit development.

And it really doesn't make sense given the fact CHK already owns NH Plaza tons of other much better situated properties that could have been developed for retail. And of course, they are mainly sitting vacant on major thoroughfares while they go to considerable expense and effort to wedge an ellobarte development into a residential neighborhood that borders a graveyard.

Add to all of that no good direct access to/from the Chesapeake campus and I have to say this all seems to have been misguided.


What is going to happen to CC when Chesapeake stops giving huge incentives for businesses to operate there? I truly believe that is the only reason retail tenants have moved there and that gravy train sure looks like it's grinding to a halt.

[Just the facts]

Pete - I am not sure if you are familiar with term 'Radiant City' or not, but it would explain the Chesapeake campus (and Sandridge and Leadership Sq and Chase Tower and Devon Tower and Bank of Oklahoma building and the entire Pei Plan).

We owe it all to this clown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier

[onthestrip]

I really hate to say this but I think Classen Curve just doesn't work and I don't think the planned expansion is going to make much difference.

I agree. While it may be a cool and interesting design to look at, it is awfully laid out for succesful retail. The fact that they tried to pass off its failure of attracting new, desired national tenants because it was intended for local tenents is a joke. It was definitely built to attract new national tenants but it is so poorly laid out that theyve had to settle for taking existing, nearby tenants and giving them incentives to relocate at CC. You cant tell me that Aubrey has deliberately turned down national tenants because he only wanted CC for locals.

[betts]

I agree. While it may be a cool and interesting design to look at, it is awfully laid out for succesful retail. The fact that they tried to pass off its failure of attracting new, desired national tenants because it was intended for local tenents is a joke. It was definitely built to attract new national tenants but it is so poorly laid out that theyve had to settle for taking existing, nearby tenants and giving them incentives to relocate at CC. You cant tell me that Aubrey has deliberately turned down national tenants because he only wanted CC for locals.

I don't know if their plans changed, but when CC was under construction, a person fairly close to Aubrey told me that they wanted no national tenants in the Curve. I'm sure they'd like more local or otherwise tenants, but I think it would be VERY successful if it were full of tenants. It's not really a big deal to walk between stores. It's not as if it's really that different from Nichols Hills Plaza, except that you cannot see all of the stores at once. But, that's never stopped a determined shopper.

[dankrutka]

Yeah. I was excited about Classen Curve and it'smodern design initially, but it is terribly designed. Even the stores are too spread out. Not many people would walk from Upper Crust to the Shave Shop. A few places can make it there, but they'll succeed indidually, not collectively. It's a shame.

[betts]

Yeah. I was excited about Classen Curve and it'smodern design initially, but it is terribly designed. Even the stores are too spread out. Not many people would walk from Upper Crust to the Shave Shop. A few places can make it there, but they'll succeed indidually, not collectively. It's a shame.

If not many people would walk that far, it's not a great statement about how far people in OKC are willing to walk. I walk for miles in Chicago shopping, and while not all the buildings are occupied, at least most of the unoccupied ones are south. There's some great windown shopping at the Curve. While I agree that the design is not great, again, people who are true shoppers pay more attention to the options than the design.

[Spartan]

Pete: You're absolutely right, but I prefer to think of the ways that CHK can fix this and get this misguided development to actually benefit their corporate environment. I've had to go pick up a friend of mine at Fuel once because the bus didn't come to get them, and they couldn't make it from Grand Blvd, through the construction, to the completed part of campus.

The city is going to embark on the Western Avenue streetscape here soon. Western, as you probably noticed Pete, desperately needs some work. There is virtually no difference in terms of aesthetic and pedestrian access between that stretch of Western and Western 8 miles north of there. It's just the exact same 4-lane road as you see everywhere around town, and that's unfortunate because this area is more important than that. I really think beyond just the Western Avenue streetscape which we know is coming, the city needs to look at an integrated streetscape package for this entire area of town, and perhaps even as an early far-northern streetscape extension. Mark Beffort and all the old school players who can still admit we need to do more for rail would jump for joy at that.

The next difference maker is that CHK needs some employee housing desperately. Their intern housing, which is contracted out to Legacy at Central Park or wherever else they can get them in at, is a disaster. They have had to re-sort a bunch of universities as "commuter distance" such as OSU (where they get the majority of their interns) and TU, which is crazy. Whereas interns from UT or Arky get housing as expected. They also need this housing because Aubrey gets a lot of after-5 office hours out of his employees, and it's almost become expected as part of the deal at CHK. Additionally, it's become a norm for these kinds of innovative HQs to come with housing, so this is a reasonable corporate need. Once they get that housing, then employees will start leaving their cars there - or CHK could even achieve the same commuter affect by locating some parking garages across Western. Just do something to get employees used to crossing Western.

I think CHK has spent too much time and too much money on these non-game changers and they've screwed the pooch too soon that they might not ever get to the parts of their campus plan that will be the game changers that will tie this all together. Classen Curve is weird, I've said it a million times. The parking lot at Whole Foods is probably the most tragic piece of that scheme, which could have otherwise tied it all together.

I agree with Kerry that this is very much beginning to resemble Le Corbusier's "radiant city," and I personally know that Rand is a huge Le Corbusier fan. I am not one.

[Spartan]

While I agree that the design is not great, again, people who are true shoppers pay more attention to the options than the design.

The problem is that urban design and layout is important. The reason that indoor shopping malls thrived is because people still wanted to indulge in window shopping but didn't want to do it outdoors. Trying to combine suburban layout and window shopping is a horrible idea destined for failure.

I think in 50 years we're going to be preserving this complex (because it will probably not be sustainable enough to maintain its success as Pete predicates) and some intrigued developer will be saying, "It's really not that bad, the layout is weird, but once you get past that these turn of the century modern buildings are actually kind of cool.."