Ideas 4 MAPS

[Pete]

The dollar figure shown includes the proposed river improvements.

[soonerguru]

What exactly are the proposed river improvements?

[Pete]

What exactly are the proposed river improvements?

Two posts up.

[BoulderSooner]

i am full on board with most of the river enhancements

[Pete]

There was a bit of shade thrown by Nikki NIce...

After the main Parks presentation, everything else was labeled 'ideas from city council'.

The sports tourism thing was clearly Stonecipher. But after the river improvements section, Nikki asked, "JoBeth Hamon and I wanted to know who submitted this?" And Holt said, "It was me."

Nice (not very nicely); "Well, none of us knew about that." Holt, "That's why we're here".

[Pete]

A bunch of different people presenting and talking about sidewalks, bike infrastructure and street lights.

Nothing new really, just need the money to actually fund some of the priorities identified in Bike Walk OKC.

Point was made that this would take decades to accomplish, even with the help of MAPS4 funds.

[Pete]

In addition to the City presenting on the Bike Walk OKC initiative, Tony Carfang -- a software engineeer with Boeing -- is delivering a passionate and intelligent presentation.

Tony is part of https://www.okbike.org and has moved all over the U.S. before coming to OKC with Boeing. He said is basically providing details on how poor our bike infrastructure is compared to other cities.

His line "Paint does not equal protection" (referring to the handful of green-painted bike lines downtown) drew a big round of applause.


This whole group of pedestrian and bike-friendly measures is backed very passionately by James Cooper and JoBeth Hamon. James bikes everywhere (including to city council meetings) and JoBeth doesn't own a car. My understanding is that Holt was trying to broker a deal whereby all these things would get something like $80M out of the total $1B MAPS 4 budget. That's about what they got in MAPS 3.

[gopokes88]

They'll cut a deal, but I would bet every dollar I have its significantly more than 80M.

[Pete]

They'll cut a deal, but I would bet every dollar I have its significantly more than 80M.

I hope so.

It's a significant bargaining chip because it's very popular with voters.

[gopokes88]

I hope so.

It's a significant bargaining chip because it's very popular with voters.

Holt is going to want a unanimous vote by the council too. Presents a united front to the city and will help it pass. He does not want a maps failure on his legacy.

If I'm cooper or hamon, I'm asking for 150, settling for 120, but also it's one of, if not the first project to get funded. Funding order is important too, Maps3 has long been over before the CC actually gets built and running.

[David]

Give me 300m in MAPS 4 for sidewalks, bike infrastructure, & trails, and I'll vote for it pretty much regardless of what else is listed.

[Pete]

Maps3 has long been over before the CC actually gets built and running.

You may recall that the powerful members of the convention center committee (the CVB and Larry Nichols) lobbied to have it moved to the front of the MAPS 3 line, but then screwed themselves over by spending a ton of time trying to land the site between Scissortail Park and Myriad Gardens, never taking into proper account the land price would be far too high.

They are near the end now only for that reason.

[gopokes88]

You may recall that the powerful members of the convention center committee (the CVB and Larry Nichols) lobbied to have it moved to the front of the MAPS 3 line, but then screwed themselves over by spending a ton of time trying to land the site between Scissortail Park and Myriad Gardens, never taking into proper account the land price would be far too high.

They are near the end now only for that reason.

Vaguely remember that. Kinda funny.

[Urban Pioneer]

FWIW, trails and sidewalks were about $58 million in MAPS 3. There were no bike lanes included at all. If they are able to do about $80 million in MAPS 4, of which $75 million or so would be specifically for sidewalks and bike lanes, that would be a significant increase in sidewalks to help complete the Sidewalk Master Plan and a somewhat infinite increase in bike lanes when compared overall to past city history.

There was information that was quite revealing today. The meeting itself was about 5 hours and twenty minutes long. Between the vetting meetings I have sat in behind the scenes combined with the large public meeting today, I think it is highly probable that the majority of MAPS 4 proposals are going to revolve around human needs rather than wants.

[Urban Pioneer]

Also, the entire Palomar presentation was probably the most moving public discussion I have ever witnessed first hand at City Hall. Riveting...

[SoonersFan12]

I am not impressed with the parks proposal, I hope it fails

[Pete]

You can see all the presentations here:

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-4

[BoulderSooner]

I am not impressed with the parks proposal, I hope it fails

i feel equally about the 100mil for bike lanes

[rte66man]

First presentation in today's MAPS 4 meeting, Palomar.

Proposing a large facility in Midtown; I presume it will be on or near their present site, which is just north of Bleu Garten.

I'm not arguing for or against this. I don't see how they can pay for operations once this is up and running. You build facilities for $40 to $80 then have no funds to operate them adequately.

[Goon]

I am not impressed with the parks proposal, I hope it fails

The interesting thing about the "sports tourism" portion is that they propose a complete redesign of C.B. Cameron to get from their 2 current regulation fields to a total of 20 to meet the minimum field requirements for regional tournaments. They then show a map that has a park on the South Side with 16 current regulation fields in one place (South Lakes), another park with 11 IIRC (Wisenhunt), and still another with 5 newly installed regulation fields (Lightening Creek)...all within 5-10 minutes of one another.

Seems like a better spend of this money would be to spread investment out among all of these complexes, rather than sinking it all into one. Tulsa already does this with their larger soccer tournaments, as teams often have to play at several different locations. Tournaments in Frisco, TX are often the same way.

It would also go a long way to reinforce the vision of #1OKC by keeping locations south of the river in mind when considering transformational investments like MAPS 4 is shaping up to be.

[BoulderSooner]

The interesting thing about the "sports tourism" portion is that they propose a complete redesign of C.B. Cameron to get from their 2 current regulation fields to a total of 20 to meet the minimum field requirements for regional tournaments. They then show a map that has a park on the South Side with 16 current regulation fields in one place (South Lakes), another park with 11 IIRC (Wisenhunt), and still another with 5 newly installed regulation fields (Lightening Creek)...all within 5-10 minutes of one another.

Seems like a better spend of this money would be to spread investment out among all of these complexes, rather than sinking it all into one. Tulsa already does this with their larger soccer tournaments, as teams often have to play at several different locations. Tournaments in Frisco, TX are often the same way.

It would also go a long way to reinforce the vision of #1OKC by keeping locations south of the river in mind when considering transformational investments like MAPS 4 is shaping up to be.

the sports marketing part of the CVB seems to think having all the fields in one place ups the chances of OKC landing events

[Pete]

the sports marketing part of the CVB seems to think having all the fields in one place ups the chances of OKC landing events

Stonecipher is pushing this along with one of the part-owners of the Energy.

[Pete]

I know we still have 3 more full days of reviewing projects but there are so many ideas it's going to be hard to pick out the 'best'.

There are lots of things we could do but most of them could be financed through other means (general obligation bonds, fundraising).

I still don't see the big sexy things that get the yes votes.

[BoulderSooner]

I know we still have 3 more full days of reviewing projects but there are so many ideas it's going to be hard to pick out the 'best'.

There are lots of things we could do but most of them could be financed through other means (general obligation bonds, fundraising).

I still don't see the big sexy things that get the yes votes.

which is very concerning

[Ross MacLochness]

I know we still have 3 more full days of reviewing projects but there are so many ideas it's going to be hard to pick out the 'best'.

There are lots of things we could do but most of them could be financed through other means (general obligation bonds, fundraising).

I still don't see the big sexy things that get the yes votes.

Agree. I'm 100000% in favor of pumping as much money into pedestrian and bike infrastructure as possible. I beleive there are few things as important that we can do as a community to improve quality of life for all people and begin to solve some of our cities issues implicit in it's design. However, I think it will be an incredibly tough sell to the average OKC voter if it's not coupled with some sort of "sexy" project that people will understand.