Ideas 4 MAPS

[OKC Guy]

Pro-MAPS voters generally do show up to vote. The anti-MAPS voters generally are very vocal, but they don't vote. MAPS projects have passed by comfortable margins, and will continue to do so, unless we see something like a soccer stadium.

I highly doubt your typical MAPS voter is much of a soccer fan. There aren't really that many soccer fans in OKC. USL is only attracting 4,600 per game. Baseball seasons are 140 games or so with soccer being only 34 (1/2 of each away). USL is nowhere close to being the draw the Dodgers are. It would make more sense to renovate the Dodgers' stadium than to build a new one for a USL team whose league appears to be ratcheting up demands on franchises.

We shouldn't be in the business of responding to arbitrary deadlines from third-rate sports franchises.

Note: Last MAPS vote was over 10 years ago. Much more local discussion now than then. Plus social media and info is 1000% different now vs then. Back then all we really had was the Jokelahoma rag.

Do you have facts to back up claims that MAPS no voters never showed up 10 years ago? Saying it passed is not an answer either. If you don’t know how many were against it prior to vote you can’t then claim lots of them never voted either. To get factual stats requires both of these data points.

Our city has grown and changed so much in 10 years we really don’t know will happen. We can guess.

[Pete]

Keep in mind that the next MAPS vote will be a special election, so not tied to any ballot with large political decisions. So, typically low turnout.

The Sooner Poll that was just done tries to sample a cross-section of those who typically vote in these types of elections.

I've also heard that the polling done by the Chamber (which they never make public) is closely aligned with the Sooner Poll.

[Laramie]

As for fans, you can't gauge support by an OKC USL crowd at a venue like Taft Stadium situated in an area that doesn't provide a choice of pre-post game amenities like you have in Bricktown.

Several of us support reconfiguration of Bricktown Ballpark into a 15,000-20,000 seat soccer & Amerk football stadium; why not invest that $65-$80 million projected for the soccer stadium in a new AAA ballpark facility downtown.

[Midtowner]

Note: Last MAPS vote was over 10 years ago. Much more local discussion now than then. Plus social media and info is 1000% different now vs then. Back then all we really had was the Jokelahoma rag.

54% voted in favor. Back then, we did have diverse media outlets. If you had listened to Mark Shannon's radio show back then, you'd have thought the consensus was against MAPS. The Oklahoman was perhaps the only strongly supportive media entity we had regarding MAPS. The police and fire unions, having not had their demands met, mounted vigorous anti-MAPS campaigns. At the end of the day, 54% said yes and 46% said no. That's an 8-point swing--not a small thing by any stretch.

If I can recall the media coverage at the time, similar SoonerPoll stats were written up in The Gazette. The convention center, like a proposed soccer stadium was polling lower than 20%.

I would tend to think out of all of the MAPS projects proposed, the ballot can maybe succeed with one unpopular item on it. If I had to hold my nose and vote, I could see myself supporting a State Fair Colosseum which would put our facilities in that area at being first rate and world class before a soccer stadium for a second or third rate team with an uncertain future in the market.

[Urban Pioneer]

I would like to say that I appreciate health living initiatives such as bike lanes. However, our city is in crisis with mental health issues, animal welfare, and public transit.

This week I had to intervene with a woman who was considering suicide by jumping off of the parking garage next to our office. It was an extremely upsetting event for me. It was a directly personal reminder of our immediate substance abuse and mental health crisis.

Our niece and nephew went to the animal shelter to adopt a cat. That was a upsetting event as well. The place is unbelievably inadequate to serve as our public intake and care center for our city's animals.

The bus system was not addressed as all in the last MAPS despite ardent attempts to bundle bus shelters and significant physical transit investments and improvements with the streetcar initiative.

The State of Oklahoma has completely abdicated responsibility for the welfare and well being of our citizens and animals. We have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and take care of these crisis situations as citizens of our aspiring city. Enough with the bull****. Spend the billion dollars where it will immediately count. –Jeff Bezdek

[Ross MacLochness]

I agree with you, but don't write off bike infrastructure as just a healthy liv ing initiative. I believe it is an important piece to create a more transit friendly, equitable city. It's the cheapest, lowest hanging fruit to improve the potential quality of life for all in the short term and could get the ball rolling in terms of reducing sprawl, our greatest enemy

[d-usa]

I wonder if the Women’s World Cup run will move the needle any?

[Laramie]

I wonder if the Women’s World Cup run will move the needle any?

In moves the needle for about 6 months; then as usual, the celebration will be short lived. Wish it had a lasting impact though.

[soonerguru]

I would like to say that I appreciate health living initiatives such as bike lanes. However, our city is in crisis with mental health issues, animal welfare, and public transit.

This week I had to intervene with a woman who was considering suicide by jumping off of the parking garage next to our office. It was an extremely upsetting event for me. It was a directly personal reminder of our immediate substance abuse and mental health crisis.

Our niece and nephew went to the animal shelter to adopt a cat. That was a upsetting event as well. The place is unbelievably inadequate to serve as our public intake and care center for our city's animals.

The bus system was not addressed as all in the last MAPS despite ardent attempts to bundle bus shelters and significant physical transit investments and improvements with the streetcar initiative.

The State of Oklahoma has completely abdicated responsibility for the welfare and well being of our citizens and animals. We have to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and take care of these crisis situations as citizens of our aspiring city. Enough with the bull****. Spend the billion dollars where it will immediately count. –Jeff Bezdek

UP, I agree. I think we can / should add some additional bike and sidewalk infrastructure as well as some beautification of major corridors throughout the city. I'm also a huge proponent of building an animal shelter that fits the bigger city we are; the current one is a dump and very overcrowded. They had to euthanize 476 animals in June!

[Dob Hooligan]

I’m in favor of the stadium. I’m in favor of everything I have seen, so far. I voted against MAPS 1, because I thought the canal was dumb and our city leaders were dumb. I was wrong.
As I have gotten older, I have figured out that the big ticket items have been good for our city since the civic center, if not earlier.

[Goon]

Pro-MAPS voters generally do show up to vote. The anti-MAPS voters generally are very vocal, but they don't vote. MAPS projects have passed by comfortable margins, and will continue to do so, unless we see something like a soccer stadium.

I highly doubt your typical MAPS voter is much of a soccer fan. There aren't really that many soccer fans in OKC. USL is only attracting 4,600 per game. Baseball seasons are 140 games or so with soccer being only 34 (1/2 of each away). USL is nowhere close to being the draw the Dodgers are. It would make more sense to renovate the Dodgers' stadium than to build a new one for a USL team whose league appears to be ratcheting up demands on franchises.

We shouldn't be in the business of responding to arbitrary deadlines from third-rate sports franchises.

Moreover, as someone deeply passionate about soccer and connected to the sport in Oklahoma, even I can see through the "multi-use" aspect being pitched by soccer stadium proponents as a thinly veiled attempt to subsidize Energy FC.

I imagine their long game is to try and secure one of the MLS' expansion slots, which to call a long shot does disservice to long shots. Even if they see their immediate future as a mid-tier operator, their numbers thus far in a similarly situated setup to other league teams leaves much to be desired.

Polling data shared at meetings I've attended showed an overwhelming desire to invest in existing parks and recreational infrastructure to enhance citizen interaction and healthy living programming. It seems like simple math to follow the will of the people here and put money back into these areas, and find alternative funding for the soccer stadium.

No matter the outcome, MAPS remains an innovative way to invest in municipal projects. I haven't always agreed with every iteration (I wasn't old enough to on the 1st one anyway), but there has always been something positive to come from each initiative. I imagine the same will be said for MAPS IV.

[Urban Pioneer]

UP, I agree. I think we can / should add some additional bike and sidewalk infrastructure as well as some beautification of major corridors throughout the city. I'm also a huge proponent of building an animal shelter that fits the bigger city we are; the current one is a dump and very overcrowded. They had to euthanize 476 animals in June!

I am all for wholistic corridor development that integrates bike lanes, sidewalks, transit, and beautification all into one coherent linear package. For that matter, simply completing the OKC Sidewalks Master Plan flushed out through the MAPS 3 process would be a huge step. We simply had a proposal such as this. It hasn't even been coherently addressee through the current process up to this point.

I just think we have several very poignant crises happening that need to be addressed taht we can easily identify. We know that a modern animal shelter would be somewhere between $40 - $45 million and meaningful bus improvements $68 - $140 million.

Has anyone read anywhere what the proposed budget is to address the Mental Health proposals?

[soonerguru]

Does anyone understand what is being pitched for the “innovation district?” This seems like the most amorphous item.

[Midtowner]

Does anyone understand what is being pitched for the “innovation district?” This seems like the most amorphous item.

http://www.okcinnovation.com/


Looks like the developers behind it want TIF money to build up the area around the Health Sciences Center. I suppose they wouldn't turn down free money from other sources as well. Here's another way to ruin the MAPS brand. A straight up giveaway to corporate interests.

[Laramie]

MAPS 4 will be a challenge to include projects like Mental Health & Animal Welfare facilities.

There are limited funding sources for Mental Health & Animal Welfare available. OKC can provide the facilities thru the extension of the MAPS initiative. The Mental Health facility needs are also being aligned with the current conditions of the county jail.

The OU Health Science Center District is where many of the our city's most high paying jobs will be created as a result of expansion and innovation techniques. Have had personal conversations with health care professionals & providers who have concerns about the conditions at the county jail--realize that's another issue.

We are anxious to see what items will appear on the MAPS 4 initiative. Please get involved and attend those upcoming meetings that excite your interest.

[soonerguru]

http://www.okcinnovation.com/


Looks like the developers behind it want TIF money to build up the area around the Health Sciences Center. I suppose they wouldn't turn down free money from other sources as well. Here's another way to ruin the MAPS brand. A straight up giveaway to corporate interests.

While there are probably too many warnings about "this will kill MAPS," I have to agree with your general sentiment. This proposal seems half baked at best.

[Urban Pioneer]

Just a friendly reminder to fellow OKC Talk members that the first of these four public meetings start at 9 am today in the council chambers.

Items include-

A. Palomar
B. Parks
C. Sidewalks, bike lanes, trails, and street lights
D. Freedom Center

The next upcoming meeting is on Thursday.

You can watch these meetings live on the city's Youtube channel.

[David]

Speaking of:



The Palomar presentation just finished, and it sounds like a very worthy cause to include.

[Pete]

First presentation in today's MAPS 4 meeting, Palomar.

Proposing a large facility in Midtown; I presume it will be on or near their present site, which is just north of Bleu Garten.

[Pete]

Parks presentation:

[HangryHippo]

I'm not interested in continuing the tax for a bunch of playground structures. Why can't kids just play in parks with trees and fields? Why so much development for the parks?

[5alive]

Reminds me of the grumpy old man skits from SNL. "When I was a kid we (fill in blank) and we liked it."

[Pete]

Also from Parks & Recs, advocating for Sports Tourism 20+ soccer pitch complex which would draw in regional tournaments and their dollars.

[onthestrip]

Palomar is proposing arch fees of over $27 per square foot! That would be ridiculous in the private sector. But I guess thats normal for publicly financed projects.

[Pete]