Devon Energy Center

[bluedogok]

Not to mention the 800-pound gorilla to the south can match or exceed and is willing to do so to veer the potential HQ mover to their state. Until OK eliminates corporate income taxes, we will have great trouble attracting that type of HQ. Every state in the union competes for them.

Texas has corporate income taxes, it is just called a "franchise tax", between that and the property taxes there isn't much difference between the two states tax burdens.

[Rover]

It's not the corporate tax that draws them to Texas. It is the 0 personal income tax rate that attracts highly paid execs to want to live in Texas. They will move the company there for personal reasons, not necessarily because it is best for the shareholders. Overall, the tax rates are comparable between OK and TX, but the burden is shifted to lower income property owners.

[bluedogok]

They all get their money, they just use different methods to skin the cat. My overall tax burden was lower in OKC than here in Austin. Property taxes here are ridiculous and going up more, plus there is no way we could ever sell our house for what Travis County has it appraised for...but that is a different discussion. My sisters house in OKC is about the same as ours and values are similar, her property taxes are 1/5th of what ours are. I suppose if you are wealthy and live frugally, then it could be a boon for you but most who make a lot of money pay a lot in property taxes. Some of the homes along the lakes here are paying into the high 5 figures every year for property taxes.

They get it, they all do, somehow, some way.

[okcpulse]

It's not the corporate tax that draws them to Texas. It is the 0 personal income tax rate that attracts highly paid execs to want to live in Texas. They will move the company there for personal reasons, not necessarily because it is best for the shareholders. Overall, the tax rates are comparable between OK and TX, but the burden is shifted to lower income property owners.

I am surprised that highly paid execs are willing to pay Texas' exuberant property taxes, that increase each year for various reasons, including the rising property value of a neighbor's home. One of the directors at my company in Houston has to take off a day each year to protest his rising property taxes in Harris County. Mine have increased 20% since 2006 on a stagnant home value.

Yes, Oklahoma has an income tax... that decreased its rate in the last several years. Sure, you'll pay more income taxes when you get a raise or a larger bonus, but many wealthy people know how to recover that money. In Texas, you are pwned by the county, the city, and the school district, all of which are on the property tax rolls.

[MadMonk]

Just found out some details concerning parking in the upcoming months.

Beginning October 1st, only tenants of the Oklahoma and Corporate towers with paid monthly parking will be able to park in the west parking garage (no more public hourly parking). In addition, the outside surface parking to the south and the access to/from Sheridan will be closed.

Beginning December 1st, the west garage will close for expansion through April 30th, 2010. All non-reserved parking will be moved to the Cox Convention Center's parking. On May 1st, the west parking garage will re-open to non-reserved monthly parking.

Reserved parking in the east garage will remain unchanged (for now).

It'll be exciting to see some more stuff happening again. They've already been working on the 2nd floor walkway between the east garage and the Oklahoma Tower.

[Platemaker]

Some new renderings from ojb.com...

South of front entrance.





New Colcord patio.



View from the southwest.

[mugofbeer]

I am surprised that highly paid execs are willing to pay Texas' exuberant property taxes, that increase each year for various reasons, including the rising property value of a neighbor's home. One of the directors at my company in Houston has to take off a day each year to protest his rising property taxes in Harris County. Mine have increased 20% since 2006 on a stagnant home value.

Yes, Oklahoma has an income tax... that decreased its rate in the last several years. Sure, you'll pay more income taxes when you get a raise or a larger bonus, but many wealthy people know how to recover that money. In Texas, you are pwned by the county, the city, and the school district, all of which are on the property tax rolls.

Texas no longer has a great advantage when it comes to personal taxes anymore so I have to disagree with the previous poster. The attraction Texas has now is the lack of a Corporate Income Tax and the financial incentives Texas governmental entities are willing to give for a new corporate facility. Texas has created a momentum for itself, it has a positive view from people around the country and execs are willing to live there.

OK has a great disadvantage both from the tax point of view and the general image point of view that execs have of it. Projects like the Devon Tower, MAPS 3, C2S and the Thunder will certainly help change that image. MAPS I and II and MAPS 4 Kids has given that image makeover a solid foundation.

[bluedogok]

The attraction Texas has now is the lack of a Corporate Income Tax and the financial incentives Texas governmental entities are willing to give for a new corporate facility.

Texas does have a corporate income tax structure, it is called the Texas Franchise Tax.

Here is some info from the FAQ.

Account and Report Form Information
8. What is franchise tax?
The Texas franchise tax is a privilege tax imposed on each taxable entity formed or organized in Texas or doing business in Texas. (Updated 03/31/08)

Taxable Entities
Rule 3.581

1. Besides corporations and limited liability companies (LLCs), what other entities are now subject to the revised franchise tax?
The revised franchise tax applies to partnerships (general, limited and limited liability), corporations, LLCs, business trusts, professional associations, business associations, joint ventures and other legal entities. TTC 171.0002.

2. What entities are not subject to the revised franchise tax?
The revised franchise tax does not apply to:

* sole proprietorships (except the tax does apply to single member LLCs filing as a sole proprietor for federal income tax purposes);
* general partnerships directly and solely owned by natural persons (except the tax does apply to all limited liability partnerships);
* entities exempt under Subchapter B of Chapter 171; and
* passive entities (as defined under TTC 171.0003).

Franchise Tax = Corporate income tax for all intents and purposes. I know my former boss said the effective tax rate went up when it went into effect. The only ones that get any sort of abatement are the top 2% of firms who choose to relocate from outside the state, the rest of us get screwed because we were already here or not big enough to garner any attention...which just so happens that small to medium sized businesses employ more people in any state than the largest of the large.

The focus is always on the large out of state corporations, but they are nothing more than corporate whores looking for a cheap date until it is time to find a cheaper date. I think more should be done to focus on the businesses that create the bulk of the jobs.

[lasomeday]

James Burnett's office is also doing the redesign for the Myriad Gardens. I saw them today and they look awesome! They are a lot more functional than the Central Park design!

[metro]

Correct, there is a link to the images in another thread.

[mugofbeer]

Texas does have a corporate income tax structure, it is called the

Franchise Tax = Corporate income tax for all intents and purposes. I know my former boss said the effective tax rate went up when it went into effect. The only ones that get any sort of abatement are the top 2% of firms who choose to relocate from outside the state, the rest of us get screwed because we were already here or not big enough to garner any attention...which just so happens that small to medium sized businesses employ more people in any state than the largest of the large.

The focus is always on the large out of state corporations, but they are nothing more than corporate whores looking for a cheap date until it is time to find a cheaper date. I think more should be done to focus on the businesses that create the bulk of the jobs.

This is correct. There is a franchise tax but one must look at the essential situation when talking about Texas and its ability to attract businesses over OK.

Any large - especially publicly traded entity MUST look for tax advantages when dealing in a global economy. The franchise tax is routinely waived for businesses looking to enter Texas to establish a HQ or a large facility and it is routinely waived for a long period of time (10-30 years). Property taxes are also routinely waived and communities in the running for a HQ or large facility are very willing to pony up money for land, infrastructure, etc. Therefore, when attracting new businesses, Texas offers 0-income tax as well as some very powerful incentives.

Couple all of this will cities that offer air flight to most anywhere in the world, world class universities (as much as it pains me to say it) and plenty of available labor (skilled/unskilled/educated/uneducated) it the result is a very tough opponent for new business.

OK simply needs to do more to attract new business as well as keep the ones we have (Mercruiser!).

[architect5311]

Has anyone read the business section of the Oklahoman today....page 4B continued title, "Devon: Tower to be finished in 2015"

The article continues with a september 30, 2015 date

What's up with that? a typo?

[OKCisOK4me]

Has anyone read the business section of the Oklahoman today....page 4B continued title, "Devon: Tower to be finished in 2015"

The article continues with a september 30, 2015 date

What's up with that? a typo?

If that's true, it's probably to coincide with the new I-40 alignment, the new boulevard (if that ever gets built) and all the new street redesigns downtown. Hope not, though.

[architect5311]

Steve, can you jump in here and explain?

By Steve Lackmeyer

Is it a ‘bad loan’?

...............O’Connor and Harris agreed Devon would be stuck with a "bad loan” — one that either would be paid off over the increment district’s 25-year lifespan or would not be fully recovered. O’Connor added that in such a scenario, however, the city would likely not be drawing down the entire $95 million.
O’Connor said the city plans to make quarterly draws, as needed, and will rely on cash proceeds from the district as much as possible. O’Connor expects the line of credit to be terminated with an application for traditional long-term financing on Sept. 30, 2015 — when the tower is set to be completed and added to property tax rolls.
Devon spokesman Chip Minty noted as an example that the $95 million is less than the company’s typical cost to drill a single well in the Gulf of Mexico.

"Our board of directors and executive management team are in the loop and have looked at this,” Harris said. "This is just an ancillary part of doing the project.”



Read more: NewsOK

[shane453]

I think it just needs to be worded more clearly? I think the date refers more to the financial mumbo jumbo, and the aside about "when the tower is set to be completed..." really means, "the tower will have been completed and added to tax rolls by the time this date arrives"

[Steve]

Bad headline. Note, text said "and added to the tax rolls." It usually takes a year or two for everything to be wrapped up and fully valuated.

[Pete]

there is a link to the images in another thread.

Which thread?

I'd like to see the renderings.

[OUGrad05]

Big commercial properties are not immediately added to the tax rolls. A three year delay is a bit long seems like its typically 24 months but Devon may have negotiated something with the city?

[Steve]

I think you're reading too much into 2015. It's simply the time at which all parties agree everything should be done and over with. They're not saying construction will still be going on in 2015 or even 2014. As I recall, employees are supposed to start moving in late 2012 or early 2013. But that doesn't mean the complex will be totally complete at that time.

[okcpulse]

I've come to the realization that people read too much into anything.

[Steve]

I understand the confusion - the headline wasn't great. And I'm not sure people realize that there isn't a "one day the tower is under construction and the next day it's filled with workers." When OPUBCO built it's current home at Britton and Broadway, employees were moved in waves with construction ongoing during the transition. As I recall, this transition lasted a few months - and it's only 12 stories.
Extrapolate that to 50 stories, and then add some lag time for getting the full amount valued and added to tax rolls... and add some cushion time for construction delays. And that's how you get to 2015 on this loan closing. Hope this helps.

[dmoor82]

I went downtown today and saw that Sheridan was blocked off, and there were concrete baracades and orange cones everwhere!is Sheridan gonna be blocked off the entire construction time?

[LakeEffect]

Is Sheridan gonna be blocked off the entire construction time?

In some form, yes. Two way traffic may be established soon, but, as far as I've heard, both Sheridan and Hudson will be affected throughout the entire construction time frame.

[zrfdude]

I went downtown today and saw that Sheridan was blocked off, and there were concrete baracades and orange cones everwhere!is Sheridan gonna be blocked off the entire construction time?

It's closed for two weeks for installation of electrical lines.

[dmoor82]

It's closed for two weeks for installation of electrical lines.

^^^^ cool,thanx!