Wheeler District

[HangryHippo]

Pud 1611

Is there a way to search for and view this document on OKC.gov?

[soonerguru]

I hate that word. It's like using racist to oppose anyone who disagrees with Obama. EVERYONE who's informed has an opinion on what gets built near them. Are they all NIMBYs?

Bahaha. OK.

[krisb]

Wherein most suburban homes fit 4 dwellings per acre, this will about double double that. Approximately 35 homes will be 90' x 36' lots; the remaining 15 or so will be on 65' x 30' lots. Even in the case of the very small lots, there will be no shared walls.
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I live in a 1300 square foot house on a small lot and these lots will be half that size. Not sure if my family can stomach paying that much for so little space. I know the homes will be nice and density is important to a walkable urban village, but this may be a hard sell for growing families who need a bit more space. I have seen other Dover-Kohl neighborhoods that have a bit more elbow room.

[2Lanez]

Wherein most suburban homes fit 4 dwellings per acre, this will about double double that. Approximately 35 homes will be 90' x 36' lots; the remaining 15 or so will be on 65' x 30' lots. Even in the case of the very small lots, there will be no shared walls.

I live in a 1300 square foot house on a small lot and these lots will be half that size. Not sure if my family can stomach paying that much for so little space. I know the homes will be nice and density is important to a walkable urban village, but this may be a hard sell for growing families who need a bit more space. I have seen other Dover-Kohl neighborhoods that have a bit more elbow room.

Agree. What's the issue with shared walls? Shared walls feels urban. Separate, single-family homes on tiny, tiny lots feels like a cheap suburban addition. At 65' x 30', the space between you and your neighbors is so small it's not functional.

[Pete]

There will be tons of public space and amenities in this project and for many that is more appealing than having additional private space.

[Canoe]

Will there be an alley way?

[bradh]

I'm very glad to see these will be affordable.

Starting at that now, better get in early, I don't see that lasting, but I could be wrong.

[OkiePoke]

There seems to be some type of construction near the river. Looks like they leveled out the levy and they also are cleaning up the south side of the property.

It would be pretty fun to have a rave/concert in the abandoned air hanger on site.

[baralheia]

The construction near the river is for the ferris wheel plaza. As for the hangar, I'm not sure that's going to be kept, though having an EDM festival inside that thing would be pretty awesome. I think the only structure that will be kept is the old terminal building.

[Pete]

The hangar will be kept and ultimately re-purposed.

[baralheia]

Oh, neat! I hadn't heard anything about the hangar. Very cool.

[HangryHippo]

Pete, is there a link online to their PUD application? I've tried searching the planning commission site and I can't find it.

[krisb]

There will be tons of public space and amenities in this project and for many that is more appealing than having additional private space.

There shouldn't be a lot of private space for a development like this. But if they are going with single family detached it should be for the purpose of providing the best of both worlds. I don't see how lots that small will provide enough room for the house, storage, and basic private space that most families would need. It's great to have a dog park but it's nice to have a small back yard to let the dogs out at 5am. And it's not so much the size but the combination of price and size that seems out of range.

[Architect2010]

There shouldn't be a lot of private space for a development like this. But if they are going with single family detached it should be for the purpose of providing the best of both worlds. I don't see how lots that small will provide enough room for the house, storage, and basic private space that most families would need. It's great to have a dog park but it's nice to have a small back yard to let the dogs out at 5am. And it's not so much the size but the combination of price and size that seems out of range.

It sounds as if you are comparing what you would find in a suburban setting to a development that, from the beginning, has been the antithesis of such sprawled land use.

I can understand the bewilderment of it not personally working for you, but I am sure the Wheeler District isn't aiming at recreating Kingslanding in Moore. Single-family detached housing in an urban, walkable setting IS THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS IMO. Sprawling grass lots do not go hand in hand with the walkability, density, and connectivity that Humphreys seems to be aiming for. It's also entirely inappropriate considering existing housing stock around this area. I do agree with you about the prices however, which seem steep, especially if the rest of Wheeler is still a grass airpark and existing 80+ year old unmaintained neighborhoods are stone's throw away. The small lots and price I feel will not work without the surrounding area being desirable and at least partially built out. The amenities and more urban housing should come first IMO.

The JFK Urban Renewal area offers a more compelling setting for large single family detached homes with spacious open lots. It's probably cheaper too and you don't have to compromise your access to the immediate downtown area. That's where I would look if I wanted a suburban setting with the perks of downtown 3 minutes down the road.

[krisb]

In my earlier post I mentioned that I currently live in a 1300 square foot house on a very small lot in what I call urban northwest Oklahoma City. Some would call it a postwar shoebox. This is the smallest our family of five can possibly stand. The largest lots in Wheeler will be half that size and more than twice the price. I am not advocating for anything large or spacious, just livable. I don't like suburban and don't want suburban. I think there are slightly lower density developments for single family housing within the New Urbanist/Dover Kohl framework that would fit more of the "traditional neighborhood" model. Think Mesta Park on a smaller scale. These will basically be walkup or row houses with a few feet in between.

[AP]

Starting at that now, better get in early, I don't see that lasting, but I could be wrong.

I was being a little facetious. Not sure anyone considers 350k affordable.

[Pete]

The truth is there is no new construction anywhere near downtown that is more affordable.

$275-$350 a square foot is the going rate and it's climbing all the time.

[Canoe]

Let's look at the 30x65 lot. Minus 5ft setback on either side makes it 20x 65. Subtract off a foot for roof over hang I on either side and you have 18 x 65.

Subtract off the front yard set back (10ft) you have 18 x 55, now take a back yard set back of 10 ft for utilities. The buildable space is around 18 x 45.

Assuming a structure 18' wide and 25' deep you would have a backyard 30' deep. Each story would be 18 x 25= 450. If you build 3 stories tall you have 1350 ft^2.

I haven't seen the plat but this is reasonable expectations based on my experience. Pete, please feel free to correct me based on the pud.

[AP]

The truth is there is no new construction anywhere near downtown that is more affordable.

$275-$350 a square foot is the going rate and it's climbing all the time.

That's the going rate in Mesta Park, HH, The Hill, and SOSA. All neighborhoods marketed to wealthier individuals. i remember when the first started, they promised mixed income housing. I guess I just didn't really understand what that meant.

[Pete]

^

The only way to make new construction more affordable is to make the homes smaller.

Not much flexibility in the price of land or buidling.

[Urbanized]

I also don't think that single-family detatched dwellings are the last word in this neighborhood. Pretty sure that plans still call for future phases to include multi-family and townhouse type configurations, where economy of scale and smaller footprints will enable more moderately-priced units.

I think it's fair to say that you won't see low income housing in the district, but if middle-income individuals, couples, smaller families and empty nesters are able to live there, it certainly is fair to characterize it as catering to a mixed income population.

It's not fair to compare this to housing developments on the fringe, where land is essentially free and requires little if any remediation.

[Canoe]

Will there be a HOA?

[Pete]

These are all from their PUD; there were more, but this gives you a good idea:

[krisb]

^

The only way to make new construction more affordable is to make the homes smaller.

Not much flexibility in the price of land or buidling.

Wheeler has a nice view of downtown but it's not downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods are extremely impoverished. There are plans for a new school but nothing yet to attract young families. My guess is the Humphreys hedge fund that is paying for this development is looking to cash in as much as they can and give a good return to their investors.

[PhiAlpha]

Wheeler has a nice view of downtown but it's not downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods are extremely impoverished. There are plans for a new school but nothing yet to attract young families. My guess is the Humphreys hedge fund that is paying for this development is looking to cash in as much as they can and give a good return to their investors.

Yes, that is probably true. It's a privately funded development on a private piece of land, so it would be kind of stupid on their part if they weren't looking to turn a profit.