Population Growth for OKC

[Naptown12713]

Not sure if this has been published. But, if not, this is pretty neat presentation that rank % growth for the top 53 Metros from 2010 to 2017. OKC came in 18th out of 53 markets reported for population growth.

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...tml#g/431332/1

[BG918]

And there is no reason. This state has two relatively prosperous metro areas and abundant natural resources. But our state's greatest export is its smartest people. And that exodus will continue until Okies get over their stupid partisan stubbornness and stop voting for dumb people.

Good point. Not many other states not named Texas have two decent-sized metros (combined MSA population of 2.4 million) and the abundant natural resources that are available in Oklahoma (Top 5 State for oil, gas & wind power, adequate water resources, productive farming & ranchland) with a moderate climate. There is no reason if the government does its job that this state should not be a growth magnet,

[bchris02]

Good point. Not many other states not named Texas have two decent-sized metros (combined MSA population of 2.4 million) and the abundant natural resources that are available in Oklahoma (Top 5 State for oil, gas & wind power, adequate water resources, productive farming & ranchland) with a moderate climate. There is no reason if the government does its job that this state should not be a growth magnet,

Oklahoma should look to Tennessee as a model. Tennessee was a state that was once a more backwater Southern state like Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Alabama but in recent years has really pushed itself ahead of the pack, much like North Carolina has. Nashville is currently one of the most desirable cities that Millennials are moving to and its earning a reputation as being a lower-cost alternative to places like Portland and Austin. What did Tennessee do? They started investing in education and infrastructure. Those two things are very important if you want to see economic growth.

[coov23]

Oklahoma should look to Tennessee as a model. Tennessee was a state that was once a more backwater Southern state like Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Alabama but in recent years has really pushed itself ahead of the pack, much like North Carolina has. Nashville is currently one of the most desirable cities that Millennials are moving to and its earning a reputation as being a lower-cost alternative to places like Portland and Austin. What did Tennessee do? They started investing in education and infrastructure. Those two things are very important if you want to see economic growth.

Ya, I'm gonna disagree with you here. I've seen a bunch of "worst top 10" lists with Tennessee right near the top in certain categories. I'd, actually, look to Colorado on how we should manage our government, resources and infrastructure.

I'm by no means saying we need to be a liberal state (I'm a moderate and vote both sides), but we definitely have the resources and capabilities to become one of the leaders in growth, in all aspects, if we can get the pencil pushing idiots out of our state legislation.

[gopokes88]

Good point. Not many other states not named Texas have two decent-sized metros (combined MSA population of 2.4 million) and the abundant natural resources that are available in Oklahoma (Top 5 State for oil, gas & wind power, adequate water resources, productive farming & ranchland) with a moderate climate. There is no reason if the government does its job that this state should not be a growth magnet,

Lol, “moderate climate”. Everyone from out of state that I know describes our climate as biblical.

[Plutonic Panda]

Ya, I'm gonna disagree with you here. I've seen a bunch of "worst top 10" lists with Tennessee right near the top in certain categories. I'd, actually, look to Colorado on how we should manage our government, resources and infrastructure.

I'm by no means saying we need to be a liberal state (I'm a moderate and vote both sides), but we definitely have the resources and capabilities to become one of the leaders in growth, in all aspects, if we can get the pencil pushing idiots out of our state legislation.

+1. Tennessee is not that impressive of a state, or at least to me. I know there are some cool things happening but I would rather Oklahoma look to Texas or Colorado to use as a model.

[ChrisHayes]

I've always thought Texas should be a model for the state. Our demographics and geography are similar to Texas so we have those bases to work from.

[jonny d]

I've always thought Texas should be a model for the state. Our demographics and geography are similar to Texas so we have those bases to work from.

There is just such a human capital difference. DFW itself is more than 2x as big as Oklahoma. Kansas or Arkansas might be better, in my opinion.

[ChrisHayes]

Human capital difference doesn't matter when you look at the size of the cities. It's not like we have 1.3 million people in a city that has the infrastructure and buildings for 5+ million like Dallas does. There are policies that could be put in place to attract people to the city/state, thus increasing growth.

[jonny d]

Human capital difference doesn't matter when you look at the size of the cities. It's not like we have 1.3 million people in a city that has the infrastructure and buildings for 5+ million like Dallas does. There are policies that could be put in place to attract people to the city/state, thus increasing growth.

Well, included in that human capital is the capacity to learn from past mistakes. This state doesn't have it, so they can't really compare with Texas. At least at the leadership level. I am just tired of them taking the best and brightest this state has to offer, so to me, comparing the 2 is not ever going to be fair.

[HOT ROD]

I prefer we dont look to Arkansas or Kansas for inspiration, but instead to Colorado. Just think, not too long ago Oklahoma was a larger population than Colorado, which just had Denver. What has CO done with Denver's lead, that has made them the GO-TO state/city for the entire West not named California?

I bet there are very many ideas that could be implemented in Oklahoma, one of which I recommend is a commitment for a separation of Church and State; you know, that is IN the constitution. Adopting this idea would force government to govern rather than tie up the floor with social influence in the guise of religious freedom. The growth model, sustainable growth, with cultural similarities - is readily available to the Northwest - in Colorado which once was just a tourist and federal government destination not that long ago. .....

[Bellaboo]

^^^ Dope is one ^^^

[bchris02]

I prefer we dont look to Arkansas or Kansas for inspiration, but instead to Colorado. Just think, not too long ago Oklahoma was a larger population than Colorado, which just had Denver. What has CO done with Denver's lead, that has made them the GO-TO state/city for the entire West not named California?

Colorado is a very, very different place demographically though. Colorado, like the rest of the mountain west except for maybe Utah, has always had a libertarian culture centered on rugged individualism and recently has been becoming more progressive. Oklahoma, despite never having been a Confederate state, has strong cultural ties to the upper South. That's one reason I say Tennessee is a good example to look to. While that state still has problems, it was once in about as dire straits as Oklahoma is but has improved itself and is home to one of the fastest growing, most desirable cities in the country. It's much more culturally similar to Oklahoma than Colorado is. I agree that Arkansas and Kansas are not examples to follow. While both states may currently be in better shape than Oklahoma, that hasn't always been the case and they aren't exactly booming.

I bet there are very many ideas that could be implemented in Oklahoma, one of which I recommend is a commitment for a separation of Church and State; you know, that is IN the constitution. Adopting this idea would force government to govern rather than tie up the floor with social influence in the guise of religious freedom. The growth model, sustainable growth, with cultural similarities - is readily available to the Northwest - in Colorado which once was just a tourist and federal government destination not that long ago. .....

Unfortunately that will never happen in this state or at least not in the near future. Religious authoritarianism is too embedded in the political mindset of this state and the mere concept of "separation of church and state" is considered an attack on Christianity. Simply look at what is going on right now with the medical marijuana initiative. It's stuff like that that causes me to lose hope. It's likely going to take a generational shift at the statehouse.

[BG918]

Colorado is a very, very different place demographically though. Colorado, like the rest of the mountain west except for maybe Utah, has always had a libertarian culture centered on rugged individualism and recently has been becoming more progressive. Oklahoma, despite never having been a Confederate state, has strong cultural ties to the upper South. That's one reason I say Tennessee is a good example to look to. While that state still has problems, it was once in about as dire straits as Oklahoma is but has improved itself and is home to one of the fastest growing, most desirable cities in the country. It's much more culturally similar to Oklahoma than Colorado is. I agree that Arkansas and Kansas are not examples to follow. While both states may currently be in better shape than Oklahoma, that hasn't always been the case and they aren't exactly booming.

I agree being more like Tennessee seems like an attainable goal for Oklahoma. There are some similarities between OKC and Nashville both being the state capital and main population center with a large centralized metro area. Both states have large economically-depressed rural areas and there is a similar rural vs. urban identity crisis. Geographically they are even similar with vast agricultural lands and forests with pine-covered mountains in the east.

However Oklahoma needs to look at how Colorado functions as far as consolidated government functions, especially education. In Colorado there are 179 public school districts while in Oklahoma there are 520 districts. There aren't small regional universities located in places like Alva and Durant in Colorado but rather they are centralized in the larger population centers.

[BG918]

Map showing last year's population change nationwide

[Laramie]

Not sure if this has been published. But, if not, this is pretty neat presentation that rank % growth for the top 53 Metros from 2010 to 2017. OKC came in 18th out of 53 markets reported for population growth.

https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/n...tml#g/431332/1

18. Oklahoma City, OK

2010 population 1,252,991
2015 population 1,358,452
2017 population 1,383,737
2010-17 change 10.43%
Change 18 (of) 53

One of my sources has OKC 2016 population as 1,373,211: Fact Finder https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/...xhtml?src=bkmk

We had an average annual growth of around 21,000 from 2010-2015; population growth slowed to 10,000 plus following 2015.

10,526 difference in 2016-17. Predict at least 1,425,000 low to a high 1,502,000 in 2020

[Naptown12713]

[QUOTE=Naptown12713;1027393]Not sure if this has been published. But, if not, this is pretty neat presentation that rank % growth for the top 53 Metros from 2010 to 2017. OKC came in 18th out of 53 markets reported for population growth. Go to: austinbizjournal.com

[Bunty]

I prefer we dont look to Arkansas or Kansas for inspiration, but instead to Colorado. Just think, not too long ago Oklahoma was a larger population than Colorado, which just had Denver. What has CO done with Denver's lead, that has made them the GO-TO state/city for the entire West not named California?

I bet there are very many ideas that could be implemented in Oklahoma, one of which I recommend is a commitment for a separation of Church and State; you know, that is IN the constitution. Adopting this idea would force government to govern rather than tie up the floor with social influence in the guise of religious freedom. The growth model, sustainable growth, with cultural similarities - is readily available to the Northwest - in Colorado which once was just a tourist and federal government destination not that long ago. .....

Oklahoma lacks the stunning mountain scenery of Colorado, along with the skiing that comes with it. The gateway rocks to the Garden of the Gods with Pikes Peak in the background is hard to beat for natural beauty. The song "America the Beautiful" was inspired from the view atop Pikes Peak. If I wasn't such a dang homebody, I would have moved to the front range of Colorado long ago for just the pretty mountain scenery alone. With my postal job, I could have simply put in a request to transfer there and just wait for a new job opening. Indeed, a married couple where I worked chose to get transferred to Castle Rock, CO. But being a homebody runs in my family. Neither my parents or two brothers ever lived permanently further away than one county boundary away from where they grew up.

In the earlier days, oil was a bigger draw to Oklahoma than gold was to Colorado. You couldn't run the hit new invention of the automobile on gold.

The concept of of separation of church and state in Oklahoma is interestingly incongruent. Rep. Ritze, who was totally behind the Ten Commandments monument fiasco at the state capitol, won reelection in 2016 by nearly 70% of the vote. Yet, that same year Oklahoma voters turned down the question that would have changed the state constitution to permit the return of the the Ten Commandments monument outside the state capitol.

Anyway, I'm convinced that Oklahomans are going to have to take control over what has been going on at the state capitol, if they really care and want CHANGE. If they don't care, then expect more of the same. In other words, Cornett will be elected as governor, instead of the Democrat Edmondson.

[hoya]

Don't forget the CHUD problem in Oklahoma City. Lots of cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers living in the sewers around OKC. It's a widely known problem and a reason why people don't move here along with sharknadoes.

Fortunately the CHUDs have managed to keep the Sewer Clown problem in check.

[HOT ROD]

guys, I didn't mean the geographical adoption - there's no way in heck that OK could ever hope to compete or grow from that prospective.

I'm talking about the government and way of thought that exists in Colorado. IMO, both states are "former" frontier Western states with two large urban metro areas and vast rural. Granted, Colorado's is a bit more concentrated due to the huge continental mountains but I think the Mindset of Colorado in governing and their approach to public use is what I'd like Oklahoma to benchmark.

In reality, Oklahoma City has some HUGE similarities to Denver which I list as follows:

1) largest city and metro in the state and significant player in the region beyond
2) city hosts a major federal government center
3) capital city
4) arguably the most progressive area in the state, more purple than red in OKC/more blue than purple in Denver
5) energy as a major industry sector
6) fairly recent urban center expansion (Denver in the 1990s, OKC in the 2000s) - although Denver never really saw the decline or flight that OKC did
7) ties to Football (I bet, if Dallas wasn't so close, there'd be many more Denver Broncos fans in OKC, just as there are very many OU fans in Denver despite UC)
8)

Main differences:

1) GEOGRAPHY: OKC has no major geography nearby; Denver obviously has 14,400 ft continental mountains less than 20 miles west, OKC has the beginning of the Great Plains in it's west metro area.
2) COMPETITION: Denver lacks a larger major metropolitan area in close proximity; OKC has Dallas Ft Worth 200 miles away. OKC also has more competition with smaller metros nearby in Tulsa, Little Rock and Wichita to some degree (particularly TUL).
3) IDEALS/CULTURE: Denver has much more control over the state/region than OKC. Denver had the true frontier mentality where law and order meant establishment of Denver as the base. However, OKC was A center of many in the frontier therefore never really got much control until recently.
4) GOVERNMENT: Colorado is set up for Denver to succeed and compete with major metros in the US (and internationally). The rewards of jobs and growth is cherished in Colorado as a means of success for the state as a whole (which is then shared with the rural) vs. the approach in Oklahoma, which is to hold back OKC from getting too big so that the rural can have a place in government. I'd argue even more that Tulsa is being held back by this but also holds OKC back with its competitive nature, something that Colorado Springs does not do with Denver.

It is #4 that I think we can most learn from Denver and Colorado, and if we did adopt some change to where OKC could really take off and compete nationally - the entire state would benefit in the same way. Again, just look at population back in 1980s, Oklahoma was much larger despite Denver already being a larger city/metro and major federal center, big difference now and this is what I think we CAN learn.

The rural in Oklahoma need to recognize that they DONT have as much play as population centers but that they should consolidate resources so that Oklahoma City can compete and win in the national/international stage and Tulsa can compete and win in the regional/national. I think this is key to the success of Oklahoma - must change the government and ideals and prosper from growth rather than restrict it.

[dankrutka]

We are now last in everything good and first in everything bad.

This type of exaggeration is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s obviously untrue, but posters’ literally respond to my comment with more of the same claims without evidence.

[BG918]

4) GOVERNMENT: Colorado is set up for Denver to succeed and compete with major metros in the US (and internationally). The rewards of jobs and growth is cherished in Colorado as a means of success for the state as a whole (which is then shared with the rural) vs. the approach in Oklahoma, which is to hold back OKC from getting too big so that the rural can have a place in government. I'd argue even more that Tulsa is being held back by this but also holds OKC back with its competitive nature, something that Colorado Springs does not do with Denver.

Good points in your post, but this is spot on. I have firsthand experience with Colorado, and you're right the state works for Denver to succeed. Everything is centered around what is best for Denver and to a lesser extent the mountain towns since that is such a big tourist draw. The rural areas have little to no say and when they have complained about that they are quickly put in their place. I would love to see this model replicated in Oklahoma where OKC and Tulsa, in a combined effort, rule the state and set themselves up to be successful on a national/international stage. The only way that is going to happen is if the two metros put aside their differences and work together.

[Laramie]

Good points in your post, but this is spot on. I have firsthand experience with Colorado, and you're right the state works for Denver to succeed. Everything is centered around what is best for Denver and to a lesser extent the mountain towns since that is such a big tourist draw. The rural areas have little to no say and when they have complained about that they are quickly put in their place. I would love to see this model replicated in Oklahoma where OKC and Tulsa, in a combined effort, rule the state and set themselves up to be successful on a national/international stage. The only way that is going to happen is if the two metros put aside their differences and work together.

You nailed it, BG918.

[ChrisHayes]

I'd venture to add Lawton to the list. I'd like to see a huge development corridor stretching from Lawton to OKC to Tulsa. Have the Big Three (so to speak) rule the roost in the state.

[soonerguru]

One major problem in Oklahoma (and Kansas) is that the rural counties still have too much power and influence in the legislature. Case in point the Speaker of the House represents Atoka and the President Pro Tem of the Senate represents Altus. The main population centers are larger in surrounding states like Texas, Colorado and Missouri so the rural politicians are more evenly matched or drowned out by the urban politicians. The Denver metro, for example, dominates the political world in Colorado which has skewed what once was a solid Republican state toward a Blue State that works for the new economy they are developing there (technology & aerospace).

Oklahoma has struggled with this identity for awhile and needs to accept that it’s a majority urban/suburban state with 2/3 of the state population living in the OKC and Tulsa metros. As I mentioned before if you combine the CSA’s that is 2.6 million people in relative close proximity to each other. The way you need to govern for an urban economy vs rural economy in the 21st century is very different.

This is very true. The census numbers bear this argument out. Hopefully Tulsa will get moving again and OKC will not continue to dwindle. I know it is entirely anecdotal, but I've said many goodbyes the last couple of years to smart people who were really committed to living here, and even liked it a great deal. They just got fed up with the atmosphere of dumbf-ckistan and bailed, mostly because they have young children and do not want to submit them to this kind of a hostile environment. The bubble of OKC is not enough to prevent it.

Hopefully the tide turns soon, and by soon I mean this November. We need to see several new faces in the legislature or I'm concerned OKC could lose a lot of momentum.