Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?

[law]

This is a recent publication by the Oklahoma Water Resources Board.

http://www.owrb.ok.gov/supply/ocwp/p...pt%20FINAL.pdf

[BoulderSooner]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think OKC was on Stage 1 watering restrictions all last month - the same month OKC had record rainfall. What does it say when there are water restrictions during record rainfall?

OKC WUT and ciy council put okc on permanent water restrictions stage 1 as a conservation policy out of civic responsibility not out of water shortage ..

[BoulderSooner]

1) I didn't say forever, I said "several years".
2) Great, there is enough water during the wettest May on record. No surprise there. What about all the other May's, or do you expect record rainfall every May?

When the baseline was being established how do we know where that baseline period falls within the historical range (which is different from the recorded historical range).

several months is more like it not several years

[Bellaboo]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think OKC was on Stage 1 watering restrictions all last month - the same month OKC had record rainfall. What does it say when there are water restrictions during record rainfall?

After the May 20 tornado, there was the issue of losing power at the Draper facility, in turn there was low pressure and water rationing was requested for a few days.

[foodiefan]

just got a "mailer" from the City of OKC. If I am interpreting the chart correctly we (OKC/surrounding communities) are now on "permanent" water conservation Stage 1 (odd/even watering schedule). Stage 1 calls for odd/even watering when the combined lake capacity is normal level ("always in effect" is on the chart). It progresses to a level 5 (ban and all outdoor watering and vehicle washing)when combined lake capacity is 35% or less. The chart is on this web site: Use OKC's Water Wisely. Water schedules are in effect.. Absolutely don't have a problem with what they have laid out.

[CaptDave]

^ Long overdue IMO.

[Snowman]

Here is the problem I have with that statement - OKC has been under watering restrictions for several years which to me means that demand does outstrip supply. Now you can say, well that is because we have been in a multi-year drought, and that is probably correct but the questions is - is that the new normal? A second question is, was the data used to establish 'normal' flow done in years that were unusually wet, thus giving the illusion that more water is available than actually exists (this was the case with Lake Mead and Lake Powell)? The study you linked to was created in 1996 and one of the impetuses for it was the noticeable reduced stream flow. Notice that a reduction in stream flow was NOT a result of decreased rainfall in the basin.



I can only guess that since 1996 things have not improved.

I know from earlier statements you do not care for building pipelines and pumping water up but the plan is to do that over the next couple years (done either by 2015 or 2016) and create another local storage lake near Draper.

[RadicalModerate]

In the face of Global Warming and Climate Change (caused by sunspots, the juxtaposition of mars/mercury/jupiter, or whatever) conservation of drinkable water is a good thing. No matter how much it rained this/last month. On the bright side, apparently (within the context of the regulations) one can choose to stand there with a hose in their hand watering whatever they want to water whenever they want to. Some might choose to hand hose their herb garden . . . some might choose to hand hose their vegetable garden . . . some might choose to hose their shrubs . . . I pity the fool out there pissing away a valuable resource on his pet lawn.

[Midtowner]

Really? We're more worried about flooding right now than drought. 2012 called, it wants its chicken littles back.

[catch22]

Really? We're more worried about flooding right now than drought. 2012 called, it wants its chicken littles back.

We've been in a drought the past few years, and I think we are still forecast to be in a long term drought. These rain patterns will go away and it will be dry again.

[Midtowner]

Those same folks didn't think we'd have this rain.

[catch22]

It's naive to assume this pattern we are in will stick around long term. I have never seen this much rain before.

[Just the facts]

I know from earlier statements you do not care for building pipelines and pumping water up but the plan is to do that over the next couple years (done either by 2015 or 2016) and create another local storage lake near Draper.

That is what it comes down to right - do we want to have the level of taxation necessary to keep living the way we have been? If the answer is Yes then by all means let's stay on the same development track we have been on the last 60 years. If you think taxes are too high then we have to return to a less expensive way of developing and maintaining our cities.

Remember, not only do we need the current tax dollars to continue to support what is already built, we will need even more tax dollars to build the pipeline, and then the on going taxes to maintain it after it is done. It isn't like we build the new pipeline and lake, and close the old. Now we have to fund both. How long do you think that model can go on even if you wanted to do it?

[BoulderSooner]

That is what it comes down to right - do we want to have the level of taxation necessary to keep living the way we have been? If the answer is Yes then by all means let's stay on the same development track we have been on the last 60 years. If you think taxes are too high then we have to return to a less expensive way of developing and maintaining our cities.

Remember, not only do we need the current tax dollars to continue to support what is already built, we will need even more tax dollars to build the pipeline, and then the on going taxes to maintain it after it is done. It isn't like we build the new pipeline and lake, and close the old. Now we have to fund both. How long do you think that model can go on even if you wanted to do it?

clearly you don't live in okc .. we do have the level of taxation to keep living the way we are ... we have lots of water rights .. and we have a very conservative city budget ..

[OKCRT]

That is what it comes down to right - do we want to have the level of taxation necessary to keep living the way we have been? If the answer is Yes then by all means let's stay on the same development track we have been on the last 60 years. If you think taxes are too high then we have to return to a less expensive way of developing and maintaining our cities.

Remember, not only do we need the current tax dollars to continue to support what is already built, we will need even more tax dollars to build the pipeline, and then the on going taxes to maintain it after it is done. It isn't like we build the new pipeline and lake, and close the old. Now we have to fund both. How long do you think that model can go on even if you wanted to do it?

OKC just needs more storage capacity. There's plenty of water but there's not enough storage. It would be cheaper to take some of the open land NW of city and build another Lake Hefner #2.


Look at the amount of water that Overholser has been releasing the past few days. Another lake could be filled in no time with rains like these.

[Just the facts]

...and a distribution network for that new water. How much are dams and a few thousand acres of land going for these days?

[BoulderSooner]

...and a distribution network for that new water. How much are dams and a few thousand acres of land going for these days?

not very much in the grand scheme

[Just the facts]

Hickory Creek lake in Canton, GA which opened about 2 years ago, cost $100 million. The City of Canton, who built the dam, had to sell their water rights to it to pay the debt they incurred building it. We call that a lose-lose.

[Midtowner]

I have posted multiple times a link to the plan to keep OKC in the water for the next 50 years. It's out there. Google is your friend. Also, we have additional storage planned already. Try Googling for things before you simply assume you know better than the city officials who do this for a living and have in fact made all of their plans available for you on the internet for free.

[Larry OKC]

clearly you don't live in okc .. we do have the level of taxation to keep living the way we are ... we have lots of water rights .. and we have a very conservative city budget ..

True but we don't have the needed infrastructure to get the water from there to here. The current pipeline doesn't have the capacity, so a new pipeline is going to have to be built from Sardis Lake to here and the number on that was estimated to be $2.36 BILLION. Granted other communities may share in that cost, but it is largely unfunded the last I read. That goes back to what JTF was saying, the money to pay for that is going to come from somewhere, and most likely thru higher taxes or fees.

As to the drought, it was reported a month or two ago in the Oklahoman and other media outlets that the drought was officially over (think we were then in the "exceptionally dry" or something similar category). Just got a mailer from OKC Utilities Dept urging water conservation to "beat this drought". What drought??? Aren't some City buildings flooded right now (that have never been flooded before)??? Don't know what Hefner or the other City reservoir levels are, but nearby Arcadia Lake is 10 FEET above normal??? Now that doesn't mean that drought can't return, but by the same token the drought probably isn't permanent either. There are cycles that weather patterns go thru.

[Midtowner]

True but we don't have the needed infrastructure to get the water from there to here. The current pipeline doesn't have the capacity, so a new pipeline is going to have to be built from Sardis Lake to here and the number on that was estimated to be $2.36 BILLION. Granted other communities may share in that cost, but it is largely unfunded the last I read. That goes back to what JTF was saying, the money to pay for that is going to come from somewhere, and most likely thru higher taxes or fees.

It's all going according to schedule except for the tribal litigation, but that'll either settle, or in my estimation, the tribes will be booted out of court with nothing. The $2.36 billion might seem like a big number, but it doesn't have to be paid all at once and the project will take awhile to complete anyhow. It will, however, mean lots of jobs for SE Oklahoma, so there's that.

As to the drought, it was reported a month or two ago in the Oklahoman and other media outlets that the drought was officially over (think we were then in the "exceptionally dry" or something similar category). Just got a mailer from OKC Utilities Dept urging water conservation to "beat this drought". What drought??? Aren't some City buildings flooded right now (that have never been flooded before)??? Don't know what Hefner or the other City reservoir levels are, but nearby Arcadia Lake is 10 FEET above normal??? Now that doesn't mean that drought can't return, but by the same token the drought probably isn't permanent either. There are cycles that weather patterns go thru.

I'm sure that mailer was approved a long time ago. Someone had to propose it, it had to be discussed, it had to be blessed by either the council or manager or whoever does that, it had to be designed and it had to be printed and mailed, no small feat. It probably has been in the system since around February, so don't read too much into it. Conservation doesn't hurt and watering your yard right now is kind of pointless. It's not hot and the ground is saturated.

It's still bad at Canton, but if OKC is getting water like it has been, we won't need Canton again for awhile.

[Just the facts]

I have posted multiple times a link to the plan to keep OKC in the water for the next 50 years. It's out there. Google is your friend. Also, we have additional storage planned already. Try Googling for things before you simply assume you know better than the city officials who do this for a living and have in fact made all of their plans available for you on the internet for free.

No one is doubting there is a plan. Anyhow, this conservation has gone full circle about 10 times so I will leave it with this.

That plan they have costs money so if people are fine with higher taxes to pay for it they came to the right place. However, if people want lower taxes then we need to develop our cities in a way that cost less.

Peace out.

[BoulderSooner]

No one is doubting there is a plan. Anyhow, this conservation has gone full circle about 10 times so I will leave it with this.

That plan they have costs money so if people are fine with higher taxes to pay for it they came to the right place. However, if people want lower taxes then we need to develop our cities in a way that cost less.

Peace out.

the plan they have doesn't involve higher taxes ... stop spreading false information

[HangryHippo]

No one is doubting there is a plan. Anyhow, this conservation has gone full circle about 10 times so I will leave it with this.

That plan they have costs money so if people are fine with higher taxes to pay for it they came to the right place. However, if people want lower taxes then we need to develop our cities in a way that cost less.

Peace out.

Developing cities in a way that costs less should just be the standard practice. It wasn't for a long time, so now we're going to have to pay for that with higher fees.

However, this talk of we've gotten a foot of rain in May and the drought is over is just lunacy. We've gone years with below average rainfall and claiming that rains in 2013 have overcome all of that is stupid. People should be conserving water all of the time. There's no need to waste, particularly when we live in an area prone to severe droughts.

[RadicalModerate]

Now that doesn't mean that drought can't return, but by the same token the drought probably isn't permanent either. There are cycles that weather patterns go thru.

So . . . Let me get this straight . . . Are you a "climate change" denier? Or a "change in the weatherman"? =)

Me . . . Earlier today, I was out in the remains of the drought/hail/freeze/poison-dripping, shade denying tree ravaged front "yard" or whatever it is tossing around some "soil" to level it out a little, broadcasting some grass seed, and watering it in (manually, with a hose). It is part of my moderate xeriscaping plan . . . What is a truckload of sand going for these days (for paving stone underlayment)? How about a small load of that small river rock?

My pet lawn will be called, "Patches".
It will be like a genetically engineered hybrid between a hamster and a camel in term of water needs.

edited to add (ps):
although i am not really fond of oysters (raw or fried) i would go to this place simply because of their pioneering strides in the direction of xeriscaping. scroll down to Post #4.
http://www.okctalk.com/food-restaura...-5-2013-a.html