Cannabis

[jerrywall]

So everybody that wants medical marijuana legalized just wants to get stoned legally and doesn't really care about all the sick people that medical marijuana could (and has) help(ed)?

Nope, but a large percentage of them and the motivation for much of the push is about recreation.

Now, to be clear, I support (smart) legalization. But we can be honest. Even if you talk to the people involved with the "medical marijuana" push, they'll admit the medical marijuana is just a step towards legalization. The Oklahomans for Health web site has multiple pages arguing the benefits of full legalization.

[Bunty]

Eh, he's not wrong though. No matter how you feel about legalization, if you think that the whole "medical marijuana" push is about helping sick people, and not about progressing to full legalization for recreational use, you're fooling yourself.

In effect, Woodward wants rec pot to remained banned, so dope peddlers can continue to enjoy all the profits from sales. Narcs estimate they only seize 10% of the underground drug market. So dope dealers, especially the drug cartels, don't have too much to lose by keeping it banned. Other people think it makes more sense to legalize it, so the state can find a badly needed new source of revenue, such as for education. Who do you think should benefit from sales of marijuana? Drug peddlers or teachers?

Woodward likes to worry about what kids will think if medical marijuana is legalized. But what would kids think when they find out that the government only seizes 10% of the underground drug market. If drugs are really so bad, why doesn't the government do a better job of getting rid of them? It's enough to make you wonder that, if true that kids find it easier to get a joint than cigarettes or alcohol.

[Bunty]

So everybody that wants medical marijuana legalized just wants to get stoned legally and doesn't really care about all the sick people that medical marijuana could (and has) help(ed)?

I feel many people feel just that way, while having no idea what a migraine headache is like, and have no difficult to treat chronic medical conditions. I would imagine the agents who work at OBN had to be in excellent health to qualify for the jobs.

[jerrywall]

In effect, Woodward wants rec pot to remained banned, so dope peddlers can continue to enjoy all the profits from sales. Narcs estimate they only seize 10% of the underground drug market. So dope dealers, especially the drug cartels, don't have too much to lose by keeping it banned. Other people think it makes more sense to legalize it, so the state can find a badly needed new source of revenue, such as for education. Who do you think should benefit from sales of marijuana? Drug peddlers or teachers?

Woodward likes to worry about what kids will think if medical marijuana is legalized. But what would kids think when they find out that the government only seizes 10% of the underground drug market. If drugs are really so bad, why doesn't the government do a better job of getting rid of them? It's enough to make you wonder that, if true that kids find it easier to get a joint than cigarettes or alcohol.

I didn't get any of that from the linked article. He seems to be speaking towards why he thinks less people are signing the petition...

It's not surprising that the number of people signing their name onto such petitions is declining, said Mark Woodward, a spokesman for the state’s Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs. Woodward said Oklahomans aren’t ready for any sort of legalization beyond the oil, which is strictly regulated and controlled.

The public believes Oklahoma is improving medical access to marijuana without needing to legalize other forms of the drug, he said.

“I think a lot of the public is asking what’s the point of allowing people to smoke, get high,” and then say it’s for medical reasons, he said.

In other states supporters of full legalization, who believe medical access measures help “lower the stigma about marijuana,” have fueled similar campaigns, Woodward said.

“They’re using sick people to push their agenda,” he said. “That’s our concern. They openly admit they want to push the medical issue in order to get it available to those that want to smoke it.”

And like I said, I don't think he's wrong.

[Bunty]

I didn't get any of that from the linked article. He seems to be speaking towards why he thinks less people are signing the petition...

And like I said, I don't think he's wrong.

So, maybe, when the push was on in 1959 to legalize alcohol in Oklahoma, opponents were insisting people only wanted it legal in order to get drunk. Maybe an old timer can remember how that went. And probably back then people who really wanted to get drunk had an adequate supplier as is now with people wanting to get high from marijuana.

Probably the last petition had fewer signatures because it had less money to work with than the one in 2014 did. That one had the money to hire a mobile crew that traveled to most of the major small towns to set up a tent. Maybe it should frighten Woodward that the last petition apparently got more signatures for each dollar spent than the previous petition did. If I heard right the last petition spent around $15,000 while the 2014 petition spent $50,000. Activists from other states were amazed Green the Vote's medical marijuana petition, the last one, got as many signatures as it did with so little time and money.

[jerrywall]

Hey, I support recreational legalization. Just don't treat me like I'm an idiot while some guy in a tye dye shirt with dreads asks me to sign a "medical marijuana" petition...

[Jim Kyle]

So, maybe, when the push was on in 1959 to legalize alcohol in Oklahoma, opponents were insisting people only wanted it legal in order to get drunk. Maybe an old timer can remember how that went. And probably back then people who really wanted to get drunk had an adequate supplier as is now with people wanting to get high from marijuana.

At that time, I was the Oklahoman's police reporter, and in quite close contact with the situation. The key to victory for the wet forces was quite simple: Edmondson and Joe Cannon enforced existing law, TO THE LETTER, with two notable exceptions: the Oklahoma City Press Club, and the Branding Iron (the private bottle club to which the governor belonged). I was present the night they raided Dick Dolph's establishment just north of the Capitol building and hauled a batch of legislators and lobbyists away in paddy wagons. The OHP had roadblocks on every major highway just inside the state lines, and stopped and searched every vehicle for bootleg booze.

By the time election day rolled around, voters were so tired of the hassle that the outcome was quite predictable.

If the state could get similar leadership once more, and really enforce existing drug law, I'm certain the results would be quite similar. But who, these days, would dare bust down every door in Gallardia on suspicion of drug use, or put roadblocks and searches on I35 and I40?

Oh, yes, thirsty folk had it easy before 1958, and it cost less also -- with delivery to your door at any hour day or night. Cost less because there was no state tax on it!

[TheTravellers]

...
If the state could get similar leadership once more, and really enforce existing drug law, I'm certain the results would be quite similar. But who, these days, would dare bust down every door in Gallardia on suspicion of drug use, or put roadblocks and searches on I35 and I40?

...

But do reasonable people really want existing drug law enforced? It's been an unmitigated, horrible, nasty disaster so far, pretty much all over the USA, and in tons of countries around the world, and drug laws have been *changed* in tons of countries around the world as a result of the "war on drugs" (and are starting to change here in the USA, but slower than in other countries).

[Jim Kyle]

If they were enforced ACROSS THE BOARD with equal treatment for everyone, I think reasonable people would support that. How long do you think the "forfeiture" racket would continue after a few CEOs of major businesses lost all their possessions to an unfounded suspicion? How long would people put up with roadblocks and long lines at every state line, plus others at random locations everywhere? How long would parents endure their kids' schools and universities being put on lockdown and everyone being strip-searched?

Strict, full enforcement of ridiculously oppressive laws is the quickest way to see them eliminated, as we proved in 1959.

However, so long as those in authority find it profitable to leave the laws on the books and enforce them only against those who cannot afford to fight back, our miserable "war on drugs" will continue to provide good income to the drug dealers, and a drain on resources that could be put to better use such as education or even charity....

[onthestrip]

I didn't get any of that from the linked article. He seems to be speaking towards why he thinks less people are signing the petition...



And like I said, I don't think he's wrong.

Im not sure hes right. I think the biggest reason that fewer people are signing the petitions is because of who is behind them, lack of organization and lack of funds. But I wont argue with him about many supporters of medical pot are really gunning for full blown recreational pot. And so be it. The best way to show people of the little harm there is is to actually have more users amongst us. Thats why Colorado was so ahead of everyone else, because it was prevelant in the state and people realized that it wasnt a big deal. The same with gay marriage. More people started coming out, so more people began to realize they had friends, neighbors and family members that were gay and saw that they were normal.

At the end of that article Woodward says theres a lot of collateral damage with legalization. I think most experts would say that theres more with prohibition.

[TheTravellers]

If they were enforced ACROSS THE BOARD with equal treatment for everyone, I think reasonable people would support that. How long do you think the "forfeiture" racket would continue after a few CEOs of major businesses lost all their possessions to an unfounded suspicion? How long would people put up with roadblocks and long lines at every state line, plus others at random locations everywhere? How long would parents endure their kids' schools and universities being put on lockdown and everyone being strip-searched?

Strict, full enforcement of ridiculously oppressive laws is the quickest way to see them eliminated, as we proved in 1959.

However, so long as those in authority find it profitable to leave the laws on the books and enforce them only against those who cannot afford to fight back, our miserable "war on drugs" will continue to provide good income to the drug dealers, and a drain on resources that could be put to better use such as education or even charity....

Gotcha, now I understand, and agree, thanks for the reply.

[TU 'cane]

God Bless these drug warriors!!!

Three Cimarron County lawmen keep watch for pot from Colorado | NewsOK.com

[TheTravellers]

God Bless these drug warriors!!!

Three Cimarron County lawmen keep watch for pot from Colorado | NewsOK.com

From the article:

Boring said he thinks Pruitt has identified a serious problem in Oklahoma, considering his office and many others like it across the state are working more cases with fewer resources.

“We have our hands full with crimes against children, rapes, molestation, homicides,” he said. “That‘s the stuff we've got to devote our attention to, and when we do it properly we don't have time to deal with much else.”
-------
Well, then work on those and don't mess with marijuana busts, get your priorities straight...

[bchris02]

I wish the federal government would deschedule marijuana. That could solve a lot of these problems, especially are more states legalize it. Marijuana prohibition does nothing but provide more profits to the black market, private prisons, and weakens civil liberties. The only reason it hasn't been as big of a "failure" as alcohol prohibition is that marijuana has never played as big of a role in western culture as alcohol has, but the same principle applies.

[Laramie]

Eh, he's not wrong though. No matter how you feel about legalization, if you think that the whole "medical marijuana" push is about helping sick people, and not about progressing to full legalization for recreational use, you're fooling yourself.

No doubt that supporters for legalization will attempt to use this as a cornerstone for their efforts; those that want marijuana can easily obtain it without legalization.

Medical marijuana is like any other drug where people will attempt to find a reason to obtain a prescription with the intent to abuse.

Let's not deny those children who need this prescription without having to go to the nearest state like Colorado to obtain medication.

Mother Hen (Oklahoma) wants to sit on eggs she's afraid to hatch; probably because she doesn't know who the hatchlings' 'father' might be.

24 Legal Medical Marijuana States and DC - Medical Marijuana - ProCon.org

[Bunty]

I wish the federal government would deschedule marijuana. That could solve a lot of these problems, especially are more states legalize it. Marijuana prohibition does nothing but provide more profits to the black market, private prisons, and weakens civil liberties. The only reason it hasn't been as big of a "failure" as alcohol prohibition is that marijuana has never played as big of a role in western culture as alcohol has, but the same principle applies.

But Oklahoma has a drug schedule, too. And, if I'm right, it says that the Oklahoma drug schedule doesn't have to follow changes made in the federal drug schedule.

[bchris02]

http://kfor.com/2016/04/30/i-wanted-...er-sons-death/

First of all, I had no idea that synthetic K2 was still legal in Oklahoma. I guess they slightly change the chemical composition every time another batch of chemicals is banned, but over time it seems like it is becoming more and more dangerous than it was when the stuff first hit the market.

Secondly, none of this would be an issue if medical marijuana was legal in Oklahoma. NOBODY would smoke that K2 garbage for any reason if they could legally use the real thing.

[Bunty]

[Bunty]

Chickasha paper okay with medical marijuana: http://www.chickashanews.com/opinion...2b294c702.html

[OKCRT]

Chickasha paper okay with medical marijuana: http://www.chickashanews.com/opinion...2b294c702.html

Lets hope the major newspapers and media follows along with the Fighting Chickasha's soon. It's just a matter of time before this will be legal in all states so IMO we (OKLAHOMANS!) might as well just hop on this train and start collecting much needed taxes.

It's just not the evil drug that many people have been brainwashed to believe.

[TheTravellers]

...

It's just not the evil drug that many people have been brainwashed to believe.

Indeed. If people knew the information that is in the stories I posted in #1071, they might not be so quick to just go for the knee-jerk "Reefer Madness" response. Portugal is doing pretty well after they legalized everything (no, not wonderful, but pretty well), and the one statistic that is frequently bandied about is very telling - how many people have died from an overdose of marijuana? 0.

[BlackmoreRulz]

Interesting article on what legalization has done so far.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...market/481506/

[Bunty]

Joe Dorman shown out very early Saturday morning in Tulsa getting signatures to help kick things off, including from a local Ghostbuster. This page list places that have the petitions available to sign: https://oklahomansforhealth.com/map

[bchris02]

Interesting article on what legalization has done so far.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...market/481506/

The dealers make a lot of money selling illegal marijuana and of course a lot of them aren't just going to pack up and quit the day its legalized. The repeal of prohibition didn't completely kill moonshining, but it eradicated most of the problem. In time, these people will go out of business.

[jccouger]

Has anybody heard how signature collection is going?