Population Growth for OKC

[Jersey Boss]

Funny, our draconian mj laws were in place while we were booming. So was our awful education situation.

I am pointing to reasons of why population growth is stagnant. You blame it all on a depressed O&G market. If you think putting up road blocks by the state government to alternative energy and the suppression of this industry to promote O&G as well as living in the past on social issues and education is a winning formula, then good luck to ya.

[Jersey Boss]

I’m sure you are right. Getting stoned legally is all we need. What a great economic development platform.

Because what we are doing is working so well. How's that jail in Oklahoma County working out for ya? Instead of full legalization it could be a civil penalty and not criminal. Just think of how many salaries could be cut at OBN, sheriff offices, and prosecutors.

[Rover]

I am pointing to reasons of why population growth is stagnant. You blame it all on a depressed O&G market. If you think putting up road blocks by the state government to alternative energy and the suppression of this industry to promote O&G as well as living in the past on social issues and education is a winning formula, then good luck to ya.

You are only pointing out reasons YOU think it’s stagnant, not the real reason for the current slowing of population growth as recognized by most economists. Do we need significant improvements in education, legal reform, etc. ... absolutely. We need it to grow long term...more for wages and quality of life than for numbers of people. People follow jobs and pay.

[Jersey Boss]

You are only pointing out reasons YOU think it’s stagnant, not the real reason for the current slowing of population growth as recognized by most economists. Do we need significant improvements in education, legal reform, etc. ... absolutely. We need it to grow long term...more for wages and quality of life than for numbers of people. People follow jobs and pay.

I will freely admit that I pointed out the reasons of my own belief. Now tell me more about these "most economists" who feel our growth stagnation is due to the downturn in O&G and the "threat" of alternative energy taking away jobs. And apparently not replacing these lost positions with positions in the alternative energy sector. So when was the last time Oklahoma gained a seat compared to the last time we lost one?

[Rover]

It’s not hard to find the decline in mining (O&M) employment. But you can keep arguing if you wish.

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m sure you are right. Getting stoned legally is all we need. What a great economic development platform.

His post apparently went completely over your head. Not one person has said getting stoned will solve the states problems and you avoided his point like you do with most of your posts.

[Jersey Boss]

It’s not hard to find the decline in mining (O&M) employment. But you can keep arguing if you wish.

Thanks for the total non responsive answers. I will let you and your straw man seek solace elsewhere.

[Rover]

There are now multiple threads blaming busting drug users and Christianity with the failure of our state. Talk about straw man arguments.
We have lost employment in oil and gas, a primary industry. That is a fact. People quit moving here for jobs as many high paying jobs disappeared. Not because they were going to get busted for pot.

[Bunty]

It's insane to think that OK actually borders Colorado. The two states couldn't possibly be any more different.

Yeah, for instance, the min. wage in Colorado is $9.30 an hour to go up to $12 in 2020. Conservatives oppose raising the minimum wage because it forces layoffs. But don't look to Colorado for proof of that. The unemployment rate there is 2.6%. I wonder if Oklahoma's min. wage will still be $7.25 by then? If so, low pay Oklahomans could be moving to Colorado for a pay raise. Just avoid Denver and Colorado Springs where the cost of living is pretty high.

[KayneMo]

Employment for the mining and logging industry for the state increased by 7.2% during the period of the Census estimate (July '16 - July '17). For OKC, employment in the industry remained stagnant during the same period (though overall total non-farm employment increased by 1.8%), however, mining and logging in OKC now shows a growth of 4.6% from November '16 - November '17, per the BLS.

[Bunty]

I’m sure you are right. Getting stoned legally is all we need. What a great economic development platform.

It would broaden the tax base, something that is much needed, if the state legislature can't pass tax hikes.

Until volunteer support arises to a sufficient level to get a legalize rec marijuana petition through, I don't expect to ever see rec marijuana legalized in the future. Even then, it wouldn't mean enough people would vote YES for it. The petition two or three years ago to legalize rec marijuana only got a tiny fraction of the support and organization the three med. marijuana petitions had. In other states, medical marijuana always first had to be legalized before rec, likely helping to explain the determination to get a med marijuana petition through in Oklahoma.

I can't imagine the state legislature allowing the people to vote on legalizing rec. marijuana, but wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

[Bunty]

To that point, this State is horrible in job creation. The lack of manufacturing on a large scale is one aspect, dependence on O&G. OKC touts all these firsts in multiple categories BUT nowhere do we talk about JOB CREATION. Oklahoma never COMPETES for high wage jobs and saying low cost of living is a plus is overused. Low cost of living equates to low wages and incomes. The State is simply run poorly

Oklahoma needs drastic tax reform and justice reform to be more competitive with other states for more industry and more people. For justice reform, hopefully, the passage of SQ 780 will prove to be a step in the right direction. Less money needed for prisons could be redirected to education. But while the state prison head desperately wishes for new prisons to be built in Oklahoma, Texas has closed several prisons, due to its own justice reform.

As for drastic tax reform, Gov. Fallin's tax reform plan needs to be taken more seriously, like taken to a vote of the people.

I suspect Oklahoma's two biggest metros and some of its bigger small towns, such as Stillwater, would be more attractive to business and industry, once a more business friendly and better quality of life atmosphere is allowed, i.e., better support for education and elimination of state corporate income tax.

[hoya]

There are now multiple threads blaming busting drug users and Christianity with the failure of our state. Talk about straw man arguments.
We have lost employment in oil and gas, a primary industry. That is a fact. People quit moving here for jobs as many high paying jobs disappeared. Not because they were going to get busted for pot.

The god-haters have been out in force lately.

[dcsooner]

The god-haters have been out in force lately.

The fact that Oklahoma has a large faith community IS NOT what is impeding growth. I believe that citizens have tolerated poor STATE and City Government in Oklahoma, not demanding elected officials to work towards laws and fiscal policy that will bring the State to a place of fiscal stability. Oklahomans vote by party EVEN when the party is taking the State over a cliff. Oklahoma needs JOBS that pay living wages. Our State rarely if ever COMPETES to get large manufacturing (please don't go back 20 years). Citizens get what they demand and Oklahomans must demand accountability of elected officials. Weed sales won't fix Oklahoma, better infrastructure (roads bridges, highways), schools, and JOBS that pay well. Look at the number of elected officials recently that have been charged with or convicted of major crimes, wow, and they are running this State. Stop voting party and vote character. If the State were all BLUE would that fix things by that alone, OF COURSE NOT, but, a more mixed governing body might lead to cooperation that would move this State forward. Not having Mountains, Oceans and other natural wonders will keep some from moving to the plains but Las Vegas is not pretty, neither is Austin for that matter. Think of all the negatives you have heard about the State and City, (some of them are TRUE), most have to do with Quality of Life NOT Mountains! Hold CIty and State government accountable and vote out non performers, period. Where is the OKC Chamber of Commerce? They say OKC receives all these accolades, but, who is working to translate accolades into JOBS? Greatest city for millennials, to start at business yada, yada, what are the statistics that show a large influx of millennials and certainly when was the last announcement of MAJOR jobs in and around OKC? Yes, I am ranting but I am sick and tired of TALK and promises in OKC and Oklahoma. I can only hope that cotton mill site will not be left like an open sore on my lip like the stage center site, this City is notorious for BIG promises with small delivery or at best late of inefficient delivery see P180. When will the citizens march down to city hall and demand better? Sigh

[KayneMo]

The fact that Oklahoma has a large faith community IS NOT what is impeding growth. I believe that citizens have tolerated poor STATE and City Government in Oklahoma, not demanding elected officials to work towards laws and fiscal policy that will bring the State to a place of fiscal stability. Oklahomans vote by party EVEN when the party is taking the State over a cliff. Oklahoma needs JOBS that pay living wages. Our State rarely if ever COMPETES to get large manufacturing (please don't go back 20 years). Citizens get what they demand and Oklahomans must demand accountability of elected officials. Weed sales won't fix Oklahoma, better infrastructure (roads bridges, highways), schools, and JOBS that pay well. Look at the number of elected officials recently that have been charged with or convicted of major crimes, wow, and they are running this State. Stop voting party and vote character. If the State were all BLUE would that fix things by that alone, OF COURSE NOT, but, a more mixed governing body might lead to cooperation that would move this State forward. Not having Mountains, Oceans and other natural wonders will keep some from moving to the plains but Las Vegas is not pretty, neither is Austin for that matter. Think of all the negatives you have heard about the State and City, (some of them are TRUE), most have to do with Quality of Life NOT Mountains! Hold CIty and State government accountable and vote out non performers, period. Where is the OKC Chamber of Commerce? They say OKC receives all these accolades, but, who is working to translate accolades into JOBS? Greatest city for millennials, to start at business yada, yada, what are the statistics that show a large influx of millennials and certainly when was the last announcement of MAJOR jobs in and around OKC? Yes, I am ranting but I am sick and tired of TALK and promises in OKC and Oklahoma. I can only hope that cotton mill site will not be left like an open sore on my lip like the stage center site, this City is notorious for BIG promises with small delivery or at best late of inefficient delivery see P180. When will the citizens march down to city hall and demand better? Sigh

Census data shows the population of 25-34 year olds in OKC grew 12% from 2010-2016, compared to OKC's overall growth of 10%.

[hoya]

The fact that Oklahoma has a large faith community IS NOT what is impeding growth. I believe that citizens have tolerated poor STATE and City Government in Oklahoma, not demanding elected officials to work towards laws and fiscal policy that will bring the State to a place of fiscal stability. Oklahomans vote by party EVEN when the party is taking the State over a cliff. Oklahoma needs JOBS that pay living wages. Our State rarely if ever COMPETES to get large manufacturing (please don't go back 20 years). Citizens get what they demand and Oklahomans must demand accountability of elected officials. Weed sales won't fix Oklahoma, better infrastructure (roads bridges, highways), schools, and JOBS that pay well. Look at the number of elected officials recently that have been charged with or convicted of major crimes, wow, and they are running this State. Stop voting party and vote character. If the State were all BLUE would that fix things by that alone, OF COURSE NOT, but, a more mixed governing body might lead to cooperation that would move this State forward. Not having Mountains, Oceans and other natural wonders will keep some from moving to the plains but Las Vegas is not pretty, neither is Austin for that matter. Think of all the negatives you have heard about the State and City, (some of them are TRUE), most have to do with Quality of Life NOT Mountains! Hold CIty and State government accountable and vote out non performers, period. Where is the OKC Chamber of Commerce? They say OKC receives all these accolades, but, who is working to translate accolades into JOBS? Greatest city for millennials, to start at business yada, yada, what are the statistics that show a large influx of millennials and certainly when was the last announcement of MAJOR jobs in and around OKC? Yes, I am ranting but I am sick and tired of TALK and promises in OKC and Oklahoma. I can only hope that cotton mill site will not be left like an open sore on my lip like the stage center site, this City is notorious for BIG promises with small delivery or at best late of inefficient delivery see P180. When will the citizens march down to city hall and demand better? Sigh

Actually I agree with everything you said here.

One of the biggest problems we have is that the state Democratic party appears to be run by Ralph Wiggum. You can't complain about the voters when many of the crappier Republican incumbents never even face a challenger. From what I understand, talking to people who would know, some of our state legislators actually have an unofficial contest to see who can propose the craziest legislation. They think its funny. This means we need a more effective opposition party. If stupid Ralph Shortey hadn't got caught buying an underage male prostitute, he'd still be there. Michael Brooks (who has the seat now) ran against him last time, but he had next to no support from the Democratic party.

We need a better quality of legislator.

[dcsooner]

Census data shows the population of 25-34 year olds in OKC grew 12% from 2010-2016, compared to OKC's overall growth of 10%.

That is very good news. More young adults with fresh ideas and enthusiasm is what is needed. Hopefully that statistic reflects a good number of persons with higher educational achievement. People my age (retired) have screwed up things too much already. Let's hope the city can create sufficient JOBS to allow those young people to stay and contribute to the city's transformation from my generation and that of my parents.

[KayneMo]

That is very good news. More young adults with fresh ideas and enthusiasm is what is needed. Hopefully that statistic reflects a good number of persons with higher educational achievement. People my age (retired) have screwed up things too much already. Let's hope the city can create sufficient JOBS to allow those young people to stay and contribute to the city's transformation from my generation and that of my parents.

Here's an interesting statistic from the Census: 25-34 year olds in OKC with a Bachelor's degree or higher grew by 36% from 2010-2016.

[jonny d]

Actually I agree with everything you said here.

One of the biggest problems we have is that the state Democratic party appears to be run by Ralph Wiggum. You can't complain about the voters when many of the crappier Republican incumbents never even face a challenger. From what I understand, talking to people who would know, some of our state legislators actually have an unofficial contest to see who can propose the craziest legislation. They think its funny. This means we need a more effective opposition party. If stupid Ralph Shortey hadn't got caught buying an underage male prostitute, he'd still be there. Michael Brooks (who has the seat now) ran against him last time, but he had next to no support from the Democratic party.

We need a better quality of legislator.

Agree whole-heartedly! I know many people who have wanted change in our congressmen, but would not dignify the polls with their presence. It is sad, and it should almost prohibit you from pissing and moaning about the state of politics in OK. Go vote, people! Be the change that could help OK turn around.

[bchris02]

The fact that Oklahoma has a large faith community IS NOT what is impeding growth. I believe that citizens have tolerated poor STATE and City Government in Oklahoma, not demanding elected officials to work towards laws and fiscal policy that will bring the State to a place of fiscal stability.

I agree. The fact OKC is a very religious state in and of itself isn't the problem. The reason religion gets brought into this discussion is that Oklahoma is one of the most socially conservative states and a big reason why the statehouse is in the shape it's in is because people vote anti-abortion and anti-LGBTQ above all else. The "God, guns, and gays" message is what sells in Oklahoma. Of course, people are voting their conscience and everyone should vote their conscience, but I wish people would see that they are being played. Tax policies favoring oil & gas at the expense of all other industries, cutting education to promote homeschooling and "school choice", combined with a focus on socially regressive politics such as chipping away at abortion rights, LGBT rights, and going all in on the War on Drugs at a time when much of the country is going the opposite direction is not a recipe for a thriving state.

Does Oklahoma want to be a Georgia, Tennessee, or North Carolina or does the state want to go the way of Kansas, Mississippi, and Alabama?

[Jersey Boss]

Employment for the mining and logging industry for the state increased by 7.2% during the period of the Census estimate (July '16 - July '17). For OKC, employment in the industry remained stagnant during the same period (though overall total non-farm employment increased by 1.8%), however, mining and logging in OKC now shows a growth of 4.6% from November '16 - November '17, per the BLS.

But, but, but, "most economists say...."

[Jersey Boss]

I agree. The fact OKC is a very religious state in and of itself isn't the problem. The reason religion gets brought into this discussion is that Oklahoma is one of the most socially conservative states and a big reason why the statehouse is in the shape it's in is because people vote anti-abortion and anti-LGBTQ above all else. The "God, guns, and gays" message is what sells in Oklahoma. Of course, people are voting their conscience and everyone should vote their conscience, but I wish people would see that they are being played. Tax policies favoring oil & gas at the expense of all other industries, cutting education to promote homeschooling and "school choice", combined with a focus on socially regressive politics such as chipping away at abortion rights, LGBT rights, and going all in on the War on Drugs at a time when much of the country is going the opposite direction is not a recipe for a thriving state.

Does Oklahoma want to be a Georgia, Tennessee, or North Carolina or does the state want to go the way of Kansas, Mississippi, and Alabama?

Agreed.

[Bellaboo]

From a few folks that I know that understand what's going on at 23rd street (if anybody does), they have made the comment that a lack of leadership came along with term limits a few years back. No one knows how to compromise on either side of the aisle.

Just what I heard, FWIW.

[Rover]

But, but, but, "most economists say...."

Natural resources & mining declined 5.3 percent in 2016 and subtracted from GDP growth in 169 metropolitan areas including three of the four MSAs in Oklahoma, (Enid MSA being the exception), where this industry shaved 2.24 from statewide metropolitan area GDP growth.



I believe you can find the complete analysis here: https://www.ok.gov/oesc_web/documents/lmiEconIndPub.pdf

This report won't include any snappy comebacks and personal attacks, but will reveal actual data and information.

[ChrisHayes]

FWIW, the state unemployment rate in November was 4.2%, and the OKC Metro unemployment rate was 3.6%. Both of those are with record high numbers of people in the labor forces, so that shows a very healthy employment situation. The highest the metro unemployment rate got during the oil crunch was 4.3% and for the state it was 5%. Both of those are still very good numbers.