****Official 2012/2013 Oklahoma City Thunder Basketball Thread****

[MonkeesFan]

Can you do us all a favor and not make any jerk remarks? Some of us are frustrated with the loss and are mourning the end of the great season. Thanks.

Why be frustrated? You should have expected that the Thunder is done without Westbrook

[SoonerBoy18]

Why be frustrated? You should have expected that the Thunder is done without Westbrook

Go away!

[MonkeesFan]

Go away!

No

[dankrutka]

No

Not cool, dude. Bad timing. Wrong place. C'mon.

[MonkeesFan]

Not cool, dude. Bad timing. Wrong place. C'mon.

They will get over it after they stop crying after the loss today

[betts]

There is always at least one 13 year old on any sports thread or forum. It's the price of having one. It's pretty obvious who the 13 year old is here.

Tough loss, but we didn't fold despite losing one of our superstars. We could have won any or all of the games we lost. We weren't going to win it all this year regardless. Its Miami's championship to lose. Reggie Jackson got some superb experience during these playoffs, if there's a silver lining to be looked for.

[okcboomer]

Does everyone now understand just how important Westbrook is to this team?

[warreng88]

For anyone who cares, you can go to Monkees profile and hide all of his posts. Problem solved.

Now, Perk played an absolutely atrocious game last night, as did mostly everybody. But, if we amnesty him, who do we get to take his place? We need an elite center with the ability to score as well as defend the paint. But Dwight Howards and Javale Mcgees are hard to come by. Thoughts?

[venture]

For anyone who cares, you can go to Monkees profile and hide all of his posts. Problem solved.

Now, Perk played an absolutely atrocious game last night, as did mostly everybody. But, if we amnesty him, who do we get to take his place? We need an elite center with the ability to score as well as defend the paint. But Dwight Howards and Javale Mcgees are hard to come by. Thoughts?

Ding ding ding. Best way to get rid of a troll, just put them on ignore and they won't get the responses they want. Also the report post feature is there for a reason.

Tough loss for the fans. Things will get better. At least that's what I tell myself every year after OU's bowl game. :-P

[Anonymous.]

What a great season!

I am proud of the way the team performed with losing their star PG in the middle of the playoffs. Nobody was claiming OKC was still going to the Finals. MIA is tornado of domination right now, I don't see anyone (especially now the Grizz) beating them.

Barely losing 4 games to Memphis with the condition our team was in, is truly respectable.
It was cool to stay in the arena until the team walked out and chanting OKC. You could tell the players really appreciated the fans as they high-fived everyone they could through the tunnel.

At least I get to save money not buying more playoff tickets the rest of the way.


On to next season. Russell comes back. Perkins most likely is gone. Martin is probably gone. A lot of cool new things will be in place for next season. I am excited.

[BoulderSooner]

For anyone who cares, you can go to Monkees profile and hide all of his posts. Problem solved.

Now, Perk played an absolutely atrocious game last night, as did mostly everybody. But, if we amnesty him, who do we get to take his place? We need an elite center with the ability to score as well as defend the paint. But Dwight Howards and Javale Mcgees are hard to come by. Thoughts?

javale mcgee is a massive head case and only plays hard about half the time ..

[BoulderSooner]

What a great season!

I am proud of the way the team performed with losing their star PG in the middle of the playoffs. Nobody was claiming OKC was still going to the Finals. MIA is tornado of domination right now, I don't see anyone (especially now the Grizz) beating them.

Barely losing 4 games to Memphis with the condition our team was in, is truly respectable.
It was cool to stay in the arena until the team walked out and chanting OKC. You could tell the players really appreciated the fans as they high-fived everyone they could through the tunnel.

At least I get to save money not buying more playoff tickets the rest of the way.


On to next season. Russell comes back. Perkins most likely is gone. Martin is probably gone. A lot of cool new things will be in place for next season. I am excited.

i very much agree with most of what you posted .. i am proud of our team and loved the growth we saw from reggie

so where do we go from here .. (numbers are from hoops hype/usatoday)

this years cap was 58mil and tax level was 70.3 mil

under contract for next season

KD 18.7 mil
Rus 14.6 mil
Serge 12.2 mil
Perk 8.4 mil
Thabo 3.9 mil
Collison 2.5 mil
Lamb 2.1 mil
Reggie 1.3 mil
Jones 1.0 mil
Thabeet .9 mil

Martin Fisher Orton Liggins are free agents that we can resign even over the cap

plus we have cap holds for the 2 first round picks

total under contract 66.1 mil and we have to have at least 13 players under contract per NBA rules Cap next year will be around 60 mil with the tax line around 72 mil (these are set in july)

so what does this mean??

if we don't amnesty Perk we will be 6 mil over the cap (actually more because the 12th pick makes 1.7 mil +/- 20% and the 29. makes .88 mil +/- 20%)

so our options are to resign Martin for whatever we want because of his Bird rights
we can resign Fisher Orton and Liggins to 120% of this years salary
and we will have our MLE (mid level exception) which is 5 mil

keep in mind that with the draft picks we will be at 68 mil and then with 1 or 2 other players we will be very very close to the tax line which our owners have not shown that they will play

if we amnesty perk (keep in mind we still have to pay him he just doesn't count against the cap) his 8.4 mil comes off the cap and we would be about 2 mil under going into the draft

this doesn't change our options much

after the draft we would be at the cap and have our MLE to work with and would have to decide if we want to resign Martin


so pay role with Perk IMHO we don't resign Martin or use the MLE and we have a 72mil dollar pay role just under the cap

if we amnesty Perk we could either resign Martin this puts us between 68 and 72 mil (depending on how much martin would sign for 8-12 he will get 8 from some one) but puts the owners on the hook for between 76-80 mil (or a little less depending on how much perk signs for elsewhere)

if we amnesty Perk and use the MLE on whomever (big guy or wing) we will be at 65 mil or so and the owners will be on the hook for 73 mil (or a little less depending on how much perk signs for elsewhere)

bottom line we will return Perk or Martin or MLE new guy very unlikely 2 of the 3

so unless we make a major trade our team will not be much different

[AP]

Oklahoma City Thunder lose to the Memphis Grizzlies - Grantland

[Martin]

from usa today: Reminder: Oklahoma City Thunder fans are the best | For The Win

[dankrutka]

The contract Perkins has is atrocious. Can't believe they're paying him that much money.

He's getting paid too much, but atrocious is a little strong. There are worse contracts and centers are almost always overpaid. It's definitely not a good contract though.

[dankrutka]

For anyone who cares, you can go to Monkees profile and hide all of his posts. Problem solved.

Thanks. I had forgotten how to do that.

[dankrutka]

Perkins most likely is gone.

Perkins will almost definitely be back. I'd put it at 95%. He'd have to get traded or amnestied. Who is going to trade for him and his contract? No one. And he is not getting amnestied. You'd still have to pay him and then also find a replacement. The better solution is for Brooks to use him less and in appropriate situations. The team could definitely go small like Miami did this year.

[dankrutka]

Good breakdown, BOULDERSOONER. Like I said above, amnestying Perk serves almost no purpose. We wouldn't have the money to go get anyone that really would be good enough to be worth it. We just need to use him less. I'd like to see us go small more with KD at the 4 and up Collison's minutes. \

I think Kevin Martin will be back if he is willing to... wait for it, "sacrifice." The Thunder won't offer him market value. I think they should offer him about 6 million per year. He's been on losing teams his entire career. Is he willing to sacrifice to stay? I hope so. He was very efficient this year. He's not good enough to be a #2 on a title team, but he's good enough to a #3 or 4 option, which he would be with the Thunder.

The big question is what we're going to with all our young assets (rookies and draft picks). Are going to give Lamb or PJ3 real minutes next year? What about our 2 first round draft picks? When does Tibor Pleiss come over (I'd say after next season)? We have a bunch of assets, but it's unclear what we're going to do with them... That's the big mystery to me.

Finally, our guys are young and should continue to improve. Reggie should be better from the experience he gained. Serge still has a lot of room to grow. Could he come back with some post moves? People often forget to consider that teams can improve if they're young just by maturation and hard work. Hopefully OKC's improvement in this area is enough to not even need other major moves.

[BoulderSooner]

IMHO we do not amnesty perk and we don't resign Martin ..

Reggie proved that he can be a very good bench player and Imho he will lead the second unit with Lamb making the big jump and perry jones/our #12 pick getting some run

[dankrutka]

IMHO we do not amnesty perk and we don't resign Martin ..

Reggie proved that he can be a very good bench player and Imho he will lead the second unit with Lamb making the big jump and perry jones/our #12 pick getting some run

I generally agree, but I think they'll give Martin an offer well below market value and see if he'll bite. He probably won't, but it's worth a shot. If he leaves then you have half a season to see the young guys play before determining if something needs to be added at the trade deadline.

It's important for everyone to remember that the motto of the Thunder's front office is sustainability. They won't sign people to long term bad contracts. Another Perk signing won't happen.

[HOT ROD]

First off, congratulations to the Oklahoma City Thunder for a wonderful season. Our team has shown consistent improvement season by season and it was a great year to be a fan from the Pac NW. OKC is my favourite major league team and I ordered NBA LeaguePass just so I could see EVERY OKC game, even DVRing them to ensure I could watch when live wasn't an option.

Now, here is some criticism that I hope will be received as constructive. Again, I watched most of OKC's games live and all eventually and I have some strong opinions on the team and why we were knocked out rather quickly.

1) obviously, this team was built around Russell Westbrook. He is my most favourite NBA player and I absolutely hate Skip Bayless or whatever his name is and other pundits who claimed Russell should have taken a back seat and let KD shine. Honestly, KD is a superstar but that doesn't make him the #1 person on the team. Russell is and these playoffs proved it. Russell is not a backup to KD, instead, Russell IS OKC. OKC proved it could win without KD but it proved just now that it can NOT win without Russell. Take that Skip!

2) while I like Scott Brooks, most other elite teams out coach him. He reacts way too slow (calling time outs after OKC blows leads and gets behind by double digits) and he pulls people who are shooting/defending well way too quickly. These are game-time aspects which I absolutely hated took place, this along with his persistence to play Kendrick Perkins who was always a constant net-negative to the team. I have more to say about Brooks and the coaching but I will save it for another point as this point should stand by itself in my opinion.

3) James Harden trade was a bust. I am not one of those bandwagon people who are just now seeing this was not a good deal for OKC, I said it all along and was shocked that OKC traded him but kept Kendrick Perkins. I'll get to Perkins in another point. Clearly, if OKC still had Harden then the three way tandem could have been retained. What OKC should have done was write plays specifically for Harden and get him in off the bench early; having Harden at the 1, Westbrook at the 2, Durant at the 3, Ibaka at the 4, and Collison/Thabeet at the 5. Playing that lineup for consistent minutes after starting would be unstoppable because you have playmakers at every position (provided you also work with Collison and Thabeet on how to post up and dunk) and you have arguably the #1 NBA players at the 1, 2, and 3. I personally do not think coaches did anything good for Harden which is why he had to create on his own when they subbed him for Westbrook AND Durant mostly during the 4th quarter. Yes Harden shined but that was due to his athletic ability and not because of him being an integral component of the team. What a miss, which was surely highlighted during these playoffs and earlier.

4) OKC should have gotten rid of Perkins and use some of that money to pay (and keep) Harden. Perkins is a net negative for OKC, he does nothing for the team positive. The guy can't rebound, he cant low post, he can't jump shoot, he can't even dunk the ball much less hold on to it if you pass it to him. Not to mention the constant hard passing and turnovers he causes because of that, it's like the guy is another player for the other team (6 to 4). This was also proven during the Mem-OKC series which was supposedly when Perkins would show his worth to the team. We saw his worth - NOTHING as OKC did better when he was warming the bench. I understand why he was acquired initially and back then we needed him instead of Jeff Green. But that was then and this is now, the guy does nothing now to help the team. We should have given him only a two year contract and got rid of him and got a cheaper center who is willing to play for a champion contender. Perkins has got to go, the man is not worth $9-million.

5) lack of coaching and preparation. This was proven almost every OKC game when we played an elite team or a team with an elite player (Cleveland), OKC showed up not prepared. This is the fault of coaching who didn't have OKC ready to play. Take for instance the Memphis games, there was no analysis on how to stop Zbo and Gasshaul, yet "Inside the NBA" broke them down quite nicely and effectively after the series was over. Why was Ibaka and Perkins falling for Zbo's backing down to the right (when he would then spin left to his shooting hand and lay the ball in since that would be open)? Why not back him right and force him to shoot right? Why were they letting Gasshaul shoot the mid-range jumpers (which he never missed)? Why not make him take shots right in the paint where he is less effective? Why were OKC players double-teaming, leaving one of those guards open for threes (which they hit)? Why does OKC not have a Zone defense? Why does OKC coaches only rely on 'shots falling' to win games but no plays developed to move players around so somebody could even be open for a shot to fall - particularly an inside shot. Speaking of that, why was OKC ONLY taking outside shots to begin with? why did it take OKC the 3rd quarter of Game 5 to finally get inside pass and lay-in between Durant and Collison? None of that was due to coaching, it was just things OKC figured out on the fly, and you can't blame that on Westbrook but all of the blame should be on Scott Brooks and the coaching staff. They should have been scouting teams before they play and should have developed defense to stop a team and offenses to exploit THEIR weaknesses.

Honestly, even without Westbrook there is no reason OKC should have lost that series. The games were within a few points either way and OKC should have had the composure to close out the games. It is very clear OKC had no idea what they were doing, despite having some time (during breaks in scheduling) to scout teams they would play. OKC coaches depend too much on OKC's athleticism, which IS the best in the NBA. But other teams know this and their coaches scout - ala Memphis, they knew exactly what OKC players do, where they would be and how to defend every last player save Westbrook. Memphis's coaching staff won that series and OKC's coaching staff let us down. Seriously, I give Scott Brooks one more year to figure this out, if he comes back with "well, our shots just weren't falling" or "so and so had an off night" instead of "I got out-coached, but I will be prepared next time.... " then I think it is time to send him into the sunset and go get Byron Scott or somebody who knows how to draw up plays that exploit the opponent.

6) KD. I like him and he is a superstar, but this playoffs proved why he should NOT have been the MVP and that HE was riding Westbrook's coattails and not the other way around. Why was KD constantly trying to shoot jumpers when he should have been trying to take it to the hole (as in the last play of the season, which likely would have given us a chance at least to win the game)? KD shines when the team/Westbrook is doing well, but he fails when the team does not do well (or when Westbrook is out, as we see). For him to get to the next level, he needs to grow up and learn how to vary his shots, not just keep chunking up prayers hoping they will go in.

7) team immaturity. OKC is still very immature. If OKC scores a point, they get so excited yet forget to defend (and Memphis runs down a fastbreak counter score AND one). If OKC (as in KD, Perkins, Ibaka) tries to score but doesn't, there is POUTING and staredowns while the other team runs a fastbreak for an uncontested. This crap has got to stop! I understand the refs did give Memphis preferential treatment during game 4 and other times, but if OKC just cuts out half of our mistakes we would win inspite of the refs or Memphis's two big guys. Can OKC please grow up and stop pouting so much, get back on defense when a score does or does not take place - other teams get back on OKC, it is no excuse since OKC is most athletic of all.

8) Why the heck did OKC not retain DFish? Why did we resign him so late? Why did we let him go in the first place? This guy brings championship leadership to OKC in a way that Perkins could NEVER. I was so upset when Brooks sat DFish in game 4 after he almost single handedly brought the team out of the dolldroms, only for OKC to then blow the lead in the 3rd quarter and then he calls on a now COLD DFish (or KMart). Trump this up to coaching again, we need some consistency and I'd like to see DFish signed for an entire year to get us to the level we need to be.

9) Coaching (again). I remembered one more point which I think needs its own number. 3rd quarter blows. Teams know that regardless of how much OKC is up, that they can catch up in the 3rd quarter because Scott Brooks will send out K Perkins to significant minutes and the team can watch film of the first half to make adjustments and exploit Perk. I am so sick of that. Why not do something different? Why be so predictable and gullible? Too many times OKC blew leads due to coach bringing out the obvious who cant move, cant jump, cant rebound, cant jumpshoot, cant dunk, cant pass, and cant catch a pass without losing it. I mean, damn; Perkins and Coach Brooks lost OKC this series - plain and simple. This is something that needs to be corrected, otherwise I'd like to see Brooks escorted out of OKC as the head coach at least, and bring in somebody with some ba**s who knows how to adapt to situations QUICKLY and draw up plays that exploit the other team.

OK, sorry for the rant but I had to get this off my chest. I hope people will not be homers with this "well, at least we got to the playoffs 2nd round, we improved over last year, blah blah". OKC has what it takes to at least have made it past Memphis and given SA a good series WITHOUT Westbrook. Yet if you look at the coaching (or lack thereof) AND Perkins, as well as some dumb moves by Durant and Ibaka's lack of low post - this is why OKC barely lost the series, yes barely!

We have to fix these mistakes, otherwise, this will be the end result regardless of Westbrook's return; because teams now know how to take OKC out of their game since there is no variation and OKC shows up unprepared for them!

[BoulderSooner]

Don't even know where to start. But I will go with Westbrook not at point = fail

[dankrutka]

The analysis of KD's game is way off base. KD played some of the best ball of any player in playoffs history and we actually have people posting that he has been riding RWO's coat tails and is not a legitimate MVP candidate. The Thunder fell apart, but KD was amazing this playoffs save one bad game. His numbers are off the charts. Goodness. I can't believe someone who "watched every game" could come to such asinine conclusions about KD. The distance between him and the 3rd best player in the league is pretty wide.

Brooks is not a great Xs and Os coach. Perk is bad offensively. Everyone knows that stuff.

I've always thought the Harden trade was a mistake and there were ways to keep him for at least 2 seasons.

Okay. That's about all I can get to from that novel of a post.

[Easy180]

No time to panic folks...Best record in the toughest conference...Just lost a top 7 player early in the playoffs and lost to a 5 seed in the 2nd round of the playoffs

Solid year and definitely enjoyable

[SoonerBoy18]

Does everyone now understand just how important Westbrook is to this team?

He can take all the shots he wants next season and I wont say anything negative lol.