Cannabis

[jerrywall]

Great, thanks for your perspective.

Helpful and productive comment.

Thoreau, who is credited with the concept of civil disobedience, went to jail over his refusal to a poll tax, because it supported the system of slavery. He said he felt more free in jail practicing civil disobedience than he did cooperating with a system that continued an injustice.

Merely breaking the law in private does nothing to change the law. Protests, sit ins, smoke outs, those are examples of civil disobedience. Sitting in your front room lighting a doobie isn't really "sticking it to the man". It's like speeding on a country road when no one is around.

[White Peacock]

Helpful and productive comment.

Thoreau, who is credited with the concept of civil disobedience, went to jail over his refusal to a poll tax, because it supported the system of slavery. He said he felt more free in jail practicing civil disobedience than he did cooperating with a system that continued an injustice.

Merely breaking the law in private does nothing to change the law. Protests, sit ins, smoke outs, those are examples of civil disobedience. Sitting in your front room lighting a doobie isn't really "sticking it to the man". It's like speeding on a country road when no one is around.

People do it, and people get caught. If people are doing it in increasing numbers, and thus taxing the system of repercussions, this brings awareness to the fact that this is something that people want to do.

It's not as though if you're not blowing smoke in a cop's face, the government won't know that marijuana is being consumed. But to reiterate my point, if nobody is using, there's no incentive to lift prohibition.

[Stew]

People do it, and people get caught. If people are doing it in increasing numbers, and thus taxing the system of repercussions, this brings awareness to the fact that this is something that people want to do.

It's not as though if you're not blowing smoke in a cop's face, the government won't know that marijuana is being consumed. But to reiterate my point, if nobody is using, there's no incentive to lift prohibition.

That's kind of what I thinking as well. You both a have a point.

[TheTravellers]

Civil Disobedience, to me, would imply lighting up a joint in front of the police headquarters and demanding to be arrested (with 30 of your friends)....

Y'know, in almost any other state than OK, I might consider trying this. In OK, you'd probably get beaten horribly, sexually assaulted by the cops, thrown in the depths of the county jail, and every single one of yours and your family's assets seized.

[Bunty]

Y'know, in almost any other state than OK, I might consider trying this. In OK, you'd probably get beaten horribly, sexually assaulted by the cops, thrown in the depths of the county jail, and every single one of yours and your family's assets seized.

It would probably need people coming in from out of state as was the case with the Freedom Riders attempting, without success, to complete a bus ride through the deep south of the early 1960s. They weren't afraid of getting beat up and certainly did, while eventually accomplishing a more important goal.

To get real for now, it would be nice if people from out of state would come in and help with the medical marijuana petition as there is a shortage of dedicated volunteers in Oklahoma City, Tulsa and elsewhere. Around 50 of the nearly 700 registered volunteers are doing most of the work.

As Brian Bates pointed out before, child molesters sometimes get a better deal from the Oklahoma justice system. If I wasn't such a homebody with little desire to explore the world, I would have left Oklahoma well before now: Cleveland County; Craigslist child molester serves only 75-weeks in prison for abusing autistic 6yr old | JohnTV

[Bunty]

Someone is trying to help from out of state, a medical marijuana activist from Las Vegas. So far, I will have 6 raffle tickets.

[Bunty]

The medical marijuana petition is still running well behind with little over 42,000 signatures processed at the office. Surely, many of the volunteers have become discouraged. I don't see how it can be saved without quite a startling miracle.

Boren, if he is allowed to get his petition launched to raise state sales tax to increase funding for education, had best be greatly concerned about that low signature number, unless he knows how he can raise at least $500,000, but probably more like $1 million, to raise up an army of PAID signature takers. Maybe a good number of people would come in from out of state, if the pay was great enough.

Back to medical marijuana, I don't see how the situation for it can be improved in Oklahoma, unless the state legislature in next session votes to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana. That way, anyone, including those using it for medical purposes, don't have to face being in big trouble over a few joints. In some places, law enforcement is liable to take it that one might be a kingpin drug dealer of the county and get a search warrant to raid suspect's house to get more evidence to establish their case. Few Oklahoma law enforcement people have sympathy for sick people, who feel they need to use medical marijuana. Having compassion isn't a job requirement for LE.

[bchris02]

So for those who follow these trends, what state bordering Oklahoma do you think will be the first to legalize marijuana. In my own prediction, marijuana prohibition will be like tattoos and 3.2 beer in Oklahoma and will remain on the books long after most of the rest of the nation has done away with it. However, I would be shocked if one of the border states did not legalize it within the next 15 years. My bet is on Missouri. New Mexico might beat them to the punch, but the border they share with Oklahoma is about as minuscule as the border between Oklahoma and Colorado.

Arkansas is very similar to Oklahoma politically so I can't see it happening there. They voted down medical marijuana back in 2012 by a pretty hefty margin. Texas might do it but there would be a lot of resistance from the rural areas and smaller cities there. The influx of latinos and millennials might make it happen as the state becomes more purple, much like in Colorado.

Another question is what will happen with Oklahoma's marijuana possession laws as more states legalize it? My guess is penalties, which currently are among the strictest in the nation, will start being reduced long before legalization ever happens here.

Thoughts?

[White Peacock]

I would peg New Mexico as the next OK-bordering state to fully legalize. Missouri or Texas would follow; remember Texas is turning rather purple, so they may surprise us with reasonable legislation in the not-too-distant future. But as of now, New Mexico strikes me as our most reasonable neighbor.

[jerrywall]

If it wasn't illegal federally I might agree with you. It's not going to be like tattoos, whatever folks delude themselves into thinking.

It's like assuming there's gonna be a mass wave a LSD and ACID legalization.

[TU 'cane]

I'm going to email my legislators tonight endorsing medical marijuana legalization (for starters). It's time to start pressing the people we elect to make these, in my mind, necessary changes.
The folks who've been handling the booths around Tulsa have vanished over the past week, I haven't seen them anywhere. They've either moved to entirely different areas or have given up now that it's December and we're lacking 80,000~ signatures.

Shameful. But, I strongly encourage everyone here who supports this effort to email/call your state representative and senator and request that discussions be had and bills introduced.

Naturally, it'll help if we tack in increased sales taxes, medical benefits, and tourism if something like this is passed. Also, it won't hurt to throw in the fact that Oklahoma has been last or towards last in legalizing other things, so it would be nice to see our state buck the trend.

If all of us here start emails now, and then ask at least one other person to do the same (contact their legislators), then the pressure may be felt and we may just end up seeing a bill introduced this next session. Unlikely, but it's possible.

[jerrywall]

Don't forget the lowering of costs in law enforcement and punishments/incarceration and courts.

[jerrywall]

Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

[White Peacock]

Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

Fair point; if we get some windbag like Chris Christie in the White House, all progress could be undone overnight.

[jerrywall]

Fair point; if we get some windbag like Chris Christie in the White House, all progress could be undone overnight.

I don't think we need to get that specific. Besides Sanders, has any candidate been specific on their view on enforcing federal laws regarding pot?

[TU 'cane]

Don't forget the lowering of costs in law enforcement and punishments/incarceration and courts.

Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

Yes, yes, good points.
One point on the federal aspect, depending on which direction of the spectrum you come from (although this isn't really a partisan issue, or shouldn't be in my mind), state nullification has been effective. And before anyone argues against or says it's never been done, keep in mind that for all general arguments sake that Colorado and Washington basically overrode federal law with their marijuana policies.
I know that's going to strike a few chords, but more or less they legalized it and told the federal government that they were going to step back and let things run.

I don't think we need to get that specific. Besides Sanders, has any candidate been specific on their view on enforcing federal laws regarding pot?

I just did a brief scan so someone can correct me, but I saw Rand Paul was one of the few taking a stand in favor of decriminalization and thinks that throwing pot offenders in prison as "ridiculous."

Not sure who else besides the two mentioned here.

[White Peacock]

I don't think we need to get that specific. Besides Sanders, has any candidate been specific on their view on enforcing federal laws regarding pot?

From memory, Rand Paul and Sanders are strongly in the same camp when it comes to this topic. If I remember correctly, Trump said he'd honor the states' wishes and legislation (correct me if I'm wrong). But some candidates have boldly said if they're in charge, marijuana legalization at the state level will be brought to a halt. Christie is the most obvious source of this sentiment, which is why I named him.

[OKCRT]

From memory, Rand Paul and Sanders are strongly in the same camp when it comes to this topic. If I remember correctly, Trump said he'd honor the states' wishes and legislation (correct me if I'm wrong). But some candidates have boldly said if they're in charge, marijuana legalization at the state level will be brought to a halt. Christie is the most obvious source of this sentiment, which is why I named him.

Putting someone in jail for having a small amount of pot is insane. Seems like law enforcement should have better things to do than chasing pot heads around. In fact they are wasting too much time and way too many dollars taking pot offenders to court. Then if convicted they could possibly have a felony on their record and be ruined for life, over smoking some pot. I mean think about that. It is seriously insane. I assume if someone gets caught with a joint several times it turns into a felony,correct?

[White Peacock]

Putting someone in jail for having a small amount of pot is insane. Seems like law enforcement should have better things to do than chasing pot heads around. In fact they are wasting too much time and way too many dollars taking pot offenders to court. Then if convicted they could possibly have a felony on their record and be ruined for life, over smoking some pot. I mean think about that. It is seriously insane. I assume if someone gets caught with a joint several times it turns into a felony,correct?

You're preaching to the choir. When I was 19, I was busted with probably no more than a gram of marijuana and slapped with a misdemeanor, resulting in a 6 month revocation of my drivers license. The guy that was driving was arrested as well, but the small town cops helped him out since when searching his car, they found a Bible under his seat, and as they told him, they "know it won't happen again." But my own heavy metal aesthetic and pagan/Satanic themed jewelry damned me to the ill wishes of Barney Fife, and half a year of getting rides to and from work, as well as DUI classes and the cost of reinstatement.

Digressing, it's absolutely absurd to ruin people's lives because they want to burn a plant for its relatively safe and brief intoxicating effects.

And yes, possession is a misdemeanor the first time, but I think subsequent arrests result in felony charges.

[bchris02]

Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

This is why it needs to be rescheduled before Obama leaves office. If a Republican gets in, I won't be surprised if the days of legal weed in Colorado and other states are over. The GOP is all for states rights on their issues (like gay marriage) but they throw a fit if a state wants to do something like legalize marijuana.

[TU 'cane]

This is why it needs to be rescheduled before Obama leaves office. If a Republican gets in, I won't be surprised if the days of legal weed in Colorado and other states are over. The GOP is all for states rights on their issues (like gay marriage) but they throw a fit if a state wants to do something like legalize marijuana.

The sad and pathetic irony of it all.

I don't suspect we'll see this scenario done within one year's time, however, it wouldn't surprise me if Obama does happen to execute an executive order of some sort in order to establish a "legacy" parting memento.

So, maybe there is hope.

[jerrywall]

This is why it needs to be rescheduled before Obama leaves office. If a Republican gets in, I won't be surprised if the days of legal weed in Colorado and other states are over. The GOP is all for states rights on their issues (like gay marriage) but they throw a fit if a state wants to do something like legalize marijuana.

To be fair, are you in favor of eliminating the FDA?

[Bunty]

You're preaching to the choir. When I was 19, I was busted with probably no more than a gram of marijuana and slapped with a misdemeanor, resulting in a 6 month revocation of my drivers license. The guy that was driving was arrested as well, but the small town cops helped him out since when searching his car, they found a Bible under his seat, and as they told him, they "know it won't happen again." But my own heavy metal aesthetic and pagan/Satanic themed jewelry damned me to the ill wishes of Barney Fife, and half a year of getting rides to and from work, as well as DUI classes and the cost of reinstatement.

Digressing, it's absolutely absurd to ruin people's lives because they want to burn a plant for its relatively safe and brief intoxicating effects.

And yes, possession is a misdemeanor the first time, but I think subsequent arrests result in felony charges.

Never give consent to a cop to search your car, if you're carrying something illegal. If you refuse and cop searches anyway, that will be your best defense. Also don't tremble when you talk, or act worried or scared after a cop stops you. Then maybe the worst the cop will want to do to you is just give you a ticket.

Yes, a second marijuana possession charge and repeated charges is a felony.

[Bunty]

So for those who follow these trends, what state bordering Oklahoma do you think will be the first to legalize marijuana. In my own prediction, marijuana prohibition will be like tattoos and 3.2 beer in Oklahoma and will remain on the books long after most of the rest of the nation has done away with it. However, I would be shocked if one of the border states did not legalize it within the next 15 years. My bet is on Missouri. New Mexico might beat them to the punch, but the border they share with Oklahoma is about as minuscule as the border between Oklahoma and Colorado.

Arkansas is very similar to Oklahoma politically so I can't see it happening there. They voted down medical marijuana back in 2012 by a pretty hefty margin. Texas might do it but there would be a lot of resistance from the rural areas and smaller cities there. The influx of latinos and millennials might make it happen as the state becomes more purple, much like in Colorado.

Another question is what will happen with Oklahoma's marijuana possession laws as more states legalize it? My guess is penalties, which currently are among the strictest in the nation, will start being reduced long before legalization ever happens here.

Thoughts?

A vote to decriminalize marijuana needs to come before the Oklahoma Legislature in 2016 to see if it's ready to do it. But that won't happen, if either the senate or house leader, or both, won't allow it to come up for a vote. I think Rep. Cory Williams wants to offer a bill that will decriminalize.

Concerning Arkansas, it really almost passed medical marijuana in 2012, losing by around 2%. While not a neighboring state, it was South Dakota that turned down medical marijuana by a significant amount.

Yes, Missouri and New Mexico are good bets for next neighboring states to repeal anti-marijuana laws. As was the case with gay marriage, it might require a high court order to make Oklahoma repeal it's anti-marijuana laws sooner or later. I can't see how that would happen, since Oklahoma's ban on alcohol was never declared unconstitutional. Perhaps its punishment for breaking anti-marijuana laws could be declared cruel and unusual punishment. Unusual how a businessman can legally make a living in Colorado selling marijuana, but would be told in Oklahoma he's looking for as much as getting life in prison.

[Bunty]

This is why it needs to be rescheduled before Obama leaves office. If a Republican gets in, I won't be surprised if the days of legal weed in Colorado and other states are over. The GOP is all for states rights on their issues (like gay marriage) but they throw a fit if a state wants to do something like legalize marijuana.

I'm not sure about that since Bush, while he had a Republican Congress, didn't want to do much of anything to stop states from legalizing medical marijuana. There's now more bipartisan support for marijuana than when Bush was president. I suppose they could decide only to keep medical legal, but not rec.