BOK Park Plaza

[UnFrSaKn]

Via Jon Dodson

https://twitter.com/dodsonster/statu...63995192852480

[Village]

Via Jon Dodson

https://twitter.com/dodsonster/statu...63995192852480

The old times change.
Such a shame they're not saving the lunch box's sign.

[Pete]

Via Jon Dodson

https://twitter.com/dodsonster/statu...63995192852480

It looks like they are just taking down the sign, which they had said they wanted to preserve inside the new development.

[Naptown12713]

Not trying to misdirection the topic of 499. However, I found this Office Tower proposal in Nashville, TN by Hines and a local developer to be very interesting:

Hines, Ragland team to develop downtown office building - Nashville Business Journal

The key takeaway is that this proposed office tower will be 24 stories tall with the parking garage built 'UNDERGROUND'.

[sroberts24]

Not trying to misdirection the topic of 499. However, I found this Office Tower proposal in Nashville, TN by Hines and a local developer to be very interesting:

Hines, Ragland team to develop downtown office building - Nashville Business Journal

The key takeaway is that this proposed office tower will be 24 stories tall with the parking garage built 'UNDERGROUND'.

Wow, good find. That really ticks me off. I think more than anything this is Devon running it telling them what they want. Or maybe Nashville's DDRC has a backbone?

[Motley]

What are the relative costs for 499 Sheridan compared to the Nashville building? Will any of the Nashville building and parking be subsidized with government funds or TIF? One good thing with the convention center is that if it has effectively raised the cost of land in downtown OKC, it will become more and more cost effective to conserve land and build parking underneath. Up to now, the city was estimating the cost for a huge plot of land at only $13 million. Why go underground if it costs so little to acquire surface space? Now that the bar has risen, building a 1/2 block parking garage may be prohibitive.

[Stickman]

Wow, good find. That really ticks me off. I think more than anything this is Devon running it telling them what they want. Or maybe Nashville's DDRC has a backbone?

Only been to Nashville twice, can't remember the topography in relation to their river. I know that our water table fluctuates (downtown) 14-22 feet. I was told the river passed through CBD at one time or another. This makes for a
less affordable underground parking.

[BDP]

Not trying to misdirection the topic of 499. However, I found this Office Tower proposal in Nashville, TN by Hines and a local developer to be very interesting:

Hines, Ragland team to develop downtown office building - Nashville Business Journal

The key takeaway is that this proposed office tower will be 24 stories tall with the parking garage built 'UNDERGROUND'.

Yep. It has never really been about what they can and can't do. Tearing down the block to turn it into mostly parking is what they want to do. It's like they look at the blocks of parking garages on Gaylord and get jealous.

[BDP]

Only been to Nashville twice, can't remember the topography in relation to their river. I know that our water table fluctuates (downtown) 14-22 feet. I was told the river passed through CBD at one time or another. This makes for a
less affordable underground parking.

Someone needs to sit down with our convention center planners then.

[soonerwilliam]

Vote is in .......bus station will be razed!

[Pete]

Vote was 4-1.

Ed Shadid will now take the matter to district court.

[soondoc]

That's right, they need that space for parking garages for this glorified mid rise. I am far from a Shadid fan and he needs to just give it up, but this is getting more ridiculous by the day. With the new CC and CC hotel not going in near by, they are creating a super block of parking garages and our little mini 399 tower. I can't help but believe that some of these garages will not be getting used as much as they anticipated. With this project and they way it went down for what little we are getting, and the CC and CC Hotel now in ruins because of our city leaders, it is becoming for obvious to most that our leaders are failing us more than they are helping now days. It's almost getting as bad at the Dewey Bartlet in Tulsa.

[Bellaboo]

As far as roof top height goes, this building will be OKC's third tallest. Far from being a punk building.

[Just the facts]

...it is becoming for obvious to most that our leaders are failing us more than they are helping now days.

I have been thinking the same thing for awhile. The problem is City Leaders said they wanted to make downtown 'walkable', but approved every objection to it, and did a very poor job of plan execution with the rest. So now we have a bunch of square pegs in round holes and nothing is fitting together.

[adaniel]

Sucks, but I don't see what Ed plans to accomplish by pushing this to District Court. It might be time to let this go and consider it a lesson learned.

He'd be far better off using his position as a councilor to start pushing for stricter standards so we can stop going down this path again and again.

[shawnw]

I don't think anybody learned a darned thing here. We're just repeating the mistakes of the past with no changes in sight.

[Pete]

Sucks, but I don't see what Ed plans to accomplish by pushing this to District Court. It might be time to let this go and consider it a lesson learned.

He'd be far better off using his position as a councilor to start pushing for stricter standards so we can stop going down this path again and again.

I don't know the exact thinking or strategy but do know the old political axiom: "If you don't have any power, delay".

And in this situation, Hines/Devon are so anxious to start that even the prospect of being hung up for another year might bring a compromise to the table.

[PhiAlpha]

That's right, they need that space for parking garages for this glorified mid rise. I am far from a Shadid fan and he needs to just give it up, but this is getting more ridiculous by the day. With the new CC and CC hotel not going in near by, they are creating a super block of parking garages and our little mini 399 tower. I can't help but believe that some of these garages will not be getting used as much as they anticipated. With this project and they way it went down for what little we are getting, and the CC and CC Hotel now in ruins because of our city leaders, it is becoming for obvious to most that our leaders are failing us more than they are helping now days. It's almost getting as bad at the Dewey Bartlet in Tulsa.

Wait, so you would approve of this if the building was taller?

[soondoc]

Wait, so you would approve of this if the building was taller?

No sir, not what I said. I think to create a super block out of parking garages and a building that doesn't a whole lot of people is just wrong. I think compromises could have been made and even then, it would have been easier to digest this if the actual building that isn't a parking lot had a little more height and made more of us proud. Lets just agree, despite its lack of height, nothing really is impressive about this building compared to what could or should be put on this block. It also does nothing for walk ability.

[Architect2010]

No sir, not what I said. I think to create a super block out of parking garages and a building that doesn't a whole lot of people is just wrong. I think compromises could have been made and even then, it would have been easier to digest this if the actual building that isn't a parking lot had a little more height and made more of us proud. Lets just agree, despite its lack of height, nothing really is impressive about this building compared to what could or should be put on this block. It also does nothing for walk ability.

Just to be clear, 499 does not comprise a superblock. It would be a super garage block though.

[gurantula35]

I don't think anybody learned a darned thing here. We're just repeating the mistakes of the past with no changes in sight.

The negative posters on here and the general public have a different view of "mistake" here.

[Spartan]

Sucks, but I don't see what Ed plans to accomplish by pushing this to District Court. It might be time to let this go and consider it a lesson learned.

He'd be far better off using his position as a councilor to start pushing for stricter standards so we can stop going down this path again and again.

The problem is taking this case to a court of law offers a far better shot than trying to get the rest of council to go along with stricter standards downtown. They clearly don't want high standards.

However the practical reality is that you don't turn to the courts to uphold higher standards. The case rests on arguing to protect the investments of previous developers that were held to a standard, as a reasonable expectation.

[ljbab728]

Molly Fleming's article about Ed's pending lawsuit. Of interest is the part I highlighted.

Councilman plots unusual move in building battle
By Molly M. Fleming
The Journal Record

OKLAHOMA CITY – Councilman Ed Shadid wants to challenge the process for deciding a building’s fate, and he is willing to take the issue to district court.

City attorney Dan Brummitt said Shadid’s battle will be between the Ward 2 councilman and the city’s Board of Adjustment, not the city itself. He said the city hasn’t seen a similar issue with a councilman since the 1980s.

In February, Shadid filed an appeal to the Downtown Design Review Committee’s decision to demolish Union Bus Station to make room for the 499 Sheridan Ave. project. He tried to get the City Council to appeal the DDRC’s decision, but that matter failed to pass as well.

The bus station and eight other buildings will be removed to make way for a 27-story office tower and two parking garages. The nine buildings are owned by Nick Preftakes.

Shadid’s appeal was heard before the Board of Adjustment Thursday. He said during the meeting that the process to demolish the buildings and construct 499 Sheridan moved too quickly, and more thought should have been given to the matter.

The board voted 4-1 to keep the DDRC’s decision, and Shadid said after the meeting he would take the matter to district court. He has not filed his case yet.

Brummitt said the court hearing will be similar to the Board of Adjustment meeting. It will be heard by only a judge.

“What I expect to happen is the property owners will intervene as support of the Board of Adjustment,” Brummitt said. “They’ll work on putting the case together. It’s really their interest, not the city’s.”

He said during the hearing, the judge will either affirm or reverse what was decided by the Board of Adjustment.

A city councilman taking a city entity to court is an unusual case, said Andrew M. Coats, University of Oklahoma School of Law dean emeritus, who was Oklahoma City mayor from 1983 to 1987. He said that when he was mayor there was a similar issue and the judge threw it out of court.

“You have to complete all your possible remedies with the city before you sue the city,” Coats said. “I think you’d want to explore all the possible options.”

He said if he were the judge, he would recommend that Shadid go back and make sure he’s covered all his ground. He said he would expect the building’s owner would bring the lawsuit against the board, not a sitting politician.

“I don’t remember a state legislator suing the Legislature because they didn’t win,” Coats said. “I think that’s the unusual part of this. It’s certainly a unique situation when you think about the fact that it is happening.”

While Shadid is debating the city’s building demolition process in court, the city’s planning department has been working on an ordinance amendment that would require more criteria to be considered when a structure is proposed for demolition. The new criteria would evaluate a building’s design, form and urban character in regards to the district, historic or architectural significance, structural integrity, economic feasibility and what would replace the existing building.

The Urban Development Committee of the city Planning Commission will discuss the amendment during its meeting Thursday.

[Pete]

Yes, that ordinance amendment has been in the works for a long time.

Some may even say the timing of it just now being finalized is a little suspicious in that it is only coming after the Preftakes Block decisions.

[catch22]

It's too late now. There's not much left to save.