Oklahoma liquor laws

[SouthsideSooner]

Attachment 12342 I'm in a small beach town in Florida in a regional grocer called "publix" look how horrible their wine selection is.

We get it... You're a major supporter of big box retailers knocking out the local stores...and just FYI, its not the "crappy little bottle shops" as you so affectionately refer to the small mom and pop liquor stores that are going to be most affected by this because that's not where wine drinkers shop. OKC's best wine stores, will be the ones that take the biggest hit and will have to seriously reconsider their commitment to that segment of their business...and good luck seeing a Publix in OKC..Walmart owns OKC and are about to become the largest wine retailer in the state. Bask in it because you deserve it...

[jerrywall]

Attachment 12342 I'm in a small beach town in Florida in a regional grocer called "publix" look how horrible their wine selection is.

Oh look, about a 1/4 of the selection of any halfway decent liquor store. And how about their beer selection? *clap clap*

[bombermwc]

I actually would tend to agree with Uptowner in that the selection the grocers will have, is going to be more than you expect. Having been in stores in several states that have grocer sold wine, the selection is actually quite good and does NOT serve to kill off liquor stores. Yes, their business model changes to have different TYPES of wines, but wine does not disappear from their shelf.

What you typically see is the standard stuff (yellow tail for example) sold in the grocery stores (which in OK today, is often what you see at the corner liquor store). The liquor stores evolve to have higher dollar wines or might specialize in carrying local winery items, which you WONT find at a place like WalMart. Think of something like Weiderkher....that would not be at WalMart or Aldi, but you would find it at the liquor store. A great example of the difference is looking at World Market. I know we don't have one in OK yet (because of the liquor laws), but their selection of wine and beer is TOTALLY different than what you'll find at WalMart. And with no liquor, they don't compete with those stores either. The local stores will also be the ones to buy crates from.....you aren't going to go to walmart to buy a crate. And if you don't think there are people here that would do that, then you don't know the market.

It's not like this is a unique thing to Oklahoma. To be truthful, yeah some crappy little liquor stores aren't going to make it. There are two within a mile of my house (in opposite directions) that closed within a month of each other last year. One store was much nicer than the other but QUICKLY dropped their wine selection to utter crap. The other store was the typical 7-11 tenant that sucks in every possible way. Obviously demand was not high enough to support two stores and guess what, there really aren't any within several miles now. Guess what killed them? WalMart NM opening down the street. All that lower content beer/coolers/etc is what people were after and it put both out of business. That's not even talking about wine. I say that meaning, it will be survival of the fittest, but that's capitalism. You wont find anyone putting Byron's out of business but those little 500 sq ft stores....yeah they're gone. But they probably were going to be gone anyway from a flawed business model. Putting wine in the store would just be a contributing factor in a problematic situation.

[jerrywall]

Have you compared the bills? Again, all things being equal, why not support the bill that protects small business in Oklahoma, AND has bonuses for the brewers and our craft beer industry, AND isn't a gift to AMBEV? What's the motivation to funnel the money to wal-mart and budweiser?

[David]

Does SQ785 depend on getting enough signatures in a petition drive? If so, that might be the reason. I don't know about anyone else, but I have nearly zero faith in just about any petition drive in this state achieving anything.

[jerrywall]

Does SQ785 depend on getting enough signatures in a petition drive? If so, that might be the reason. I don't know about anyone else, but I have nearly zero faith in just about any petition drive in this state achieving anything.

I could see it for that reason... however, I think they have a good chance. Another problem is the difficulty with two similar questions on the ballot. That being said, I think Jolley's bill is less likely to pass a vote.

[TheTravellers]

...
What you typically see is the standard stuff (yellow tail for example) sold in the grocery stores (which in OK today, is often what you see at the corner liquor store). The liquor stores evolve to have higher dollar wines or might specialize in carrying local winery items, which you WONT find at a place like WalMart. Think of something like Weiderkher....that would not be at WalMart or Aldi, but you would find it at the liquor store. A great example of the difference is looking at World Market. I know we don't have one in OK yet (because of the liquor laws), but their selection of wine and beer is TOTALLY different than what you'll find at WalMart. And with no liquor, they don't compete with those stores either. The local stores will also be the ones to buy crates from.....you aren't going to go to walmart to buy a crate. And if you don't think there are people here that would do that, then you don't know the market.
...

Yes, this. This is what had happened in IL when we lived there - when we wanted general-level stuff that we knew what it tasted like, had it before, etc., we picked it up at the grocery store, but when we wanted a better experience (with tastings, opinions of the people running the store, etc.), we stopped in one of the liquor/wine stores.

I won't shop at the place closest to me because the owner admits he knows nothing about wine or beer, he drinks the rocky mountain goat p*ss that so many drink, so why would I go to him at all when I can go up the street to one that has people that drink Prairie's/Stillwater's/Evil Twin's brews and can tell me about them. He might be the one that closes, but I'll bet the place I go to won't (they used to be part of Sean's/Cellar, though, so that might help).

[warreng88]

Move to open up in-state wine shipping has two chances

By: Dale Denwalt The Journal Record March 9, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – If lawmakers can’t put comprehensive alcohol law changes on the ballot in November, state Rep. Dan Kirby has a backup plan.

His campaign for direct wine shipments has been overshadowed by a larger fight over the strength of beer and who can sell cold alcohol.

Last year, Kirby pushed House Joint Resolution 1002 through the House, but it stalled in the Senate and remains dormant. This year he successfully guided a companion, House Bill 2756, to the Senate.

Together, the measures could allow Oklahoma wineries to ship product to in-state customers instead of only to people who live elsewhere. The new laws would also let Oklahoma residents order from out-of-state wineries. The question would have to be approved by voters first, however.

The larger bill, which is described by supporters as a modernization of liquor laws, contains language that would meet Kirby’s goal.

“It’s not exactly the way I wanted it, but it’s in there so that if they end up getting that big piece to a vote of the people, then I’ll probably drop mine,” said Kirby, R-Tulsa. “If it gets derailed this year or looks like it’s in danger, then I’m going to go through with mine and push it through.”

When he introduced the primary measure last year, Kirby said, there was more opposition, particularly from distributors. His companion bill passed more quietly through the state House on Monday.

“People want it,” said Kirby. “The Senate (leadership) wants it. One way or the other, direct wine shipping is going to be (law).”

Wineries are excited about the possibility. Roger Cude, co-owner of Waters Edge Winery in Oklahoma City, said he regularly has to tell people about Oklahoma’s shipping restriction. The company has a wine club with members in Tulsa and Ardmore who have to visit the winery personally to pick up their product.

“Some of them we save for them; they come up once a quarter and get three months’ worth of their wine at one time,” Cude said.

For his out-of-state wine club members, there’s no problem.

“We can go through shipping companies to ship to them,” he said. “But in the state, even the shipping companies can’t touch it.”

Owner John Burwell of Put A Cork In It, another Oklahoma City winery, said if the measure passes into law he probably won’t expand his advertising and marketing budget; his winery already sells everything that it can make. But he supports opening Oklahoma’s wine shipping lanes.

“In my mind, it would be more for consumers’ convenience, not having the government tell you who you can buy from or who you can’t,” Burwell said. “Or if somebody wants to buy a nice bottle of wine from California, you can’t do that here, unless you can find it in a liquor store.”

It’s a consumer-freedom bill, he said.

“If I weren’t a wine owner, I would still be for that bill just because I don’t like somebody telling me I can’t bring something in from another state,” said Burwell.

[jerrywall]

In state wine shipments would be great, but I'd like to be legally able to order direct shipments of wine or beer from out of state as well (note.... you can, but it's questionable - I've been a member of beer of the month clubs, and specs has shipped to me, but there's a chance of it being seized.)

[Uptowner]

That's the biggest contradiction to date on this thread. Buying wine or beer through the mail? Skipping OTC taxes? Oh that's because those producers don't get shopped to OK? if several hundred grocers started doing wine and beer don't you think some of those impossible to buy in OK brands will get brought into the state legally and taxed for everyone's benefit? Why are you acting like this system doesn't work in dozens of other states?

[CCOKC]

I had a business associate from Denver buy me a gift certificate from a wine club last year just to find out they wouldn't ship to me in Oklahoma. I used it to give my dad who lives in California as a birthday gift. When I was visiting him in November we visited several wineries in California and Oregon. They would ship to Oklahoma but not necessarily other states. For instance one winery in California told me they can't ship to Massachusetts but Oklahoma was OK. Seems pretty arbitrary to me.

[trousers]

Uptowner - You do realize that people in other states with far more liberal laws participate in the through the mail beer trades?

[Questor]

There are tons of small, really great, wineries around the country. Some are hard to come by or don't use distributors and only sell direct. I guess in this day and age of the internet I question why anyone sees any value in supporting what is in effect a middleman? That model is pretty much dying a slow death.

[bradh]

This thread pretty much exemplifies what I thought, there are too many damn proposals and people are arguing about how to get the same thing. You know what will end up happening? Nothing, and we'll still be stuck with the same ol' crap we have now.

[Bunty]

This thread pretty much exemplifies what I thought, there are too many damn proposals and people are arguing about how to get the same thing. You know what will end up happening? Nothing, and we'll still be stuck with the same ol' crap we have now.

At least we won't have to worry about the price of beer going up from the result of doing away with 3.2 beer. If proposals make it to ballot, that will probably be given as the no. 1 reason to vote NO.

[SouthsideSooner]

At least we won't have to worry about the price of beer going up from the result of doing away with 3.2 beer. If proposals make it to ballot, that will probably be given as the no. 1 reason to vote NO.

I'm not sure where you came up with that idea but Bud, Miller and Coors will still own the grocery store shelves. The prices in the best liquor stores for the wider selection of craft and local beers and liquor will be going up to offset the loss of wine sales... There's no question about that

[Plutonic Panda]

Oh look, about a 1/4 of the selection of any halfway decent liquor store. And how about their beer selection? *clap clap*

Jerrywall, have you been to Central Market in Dallas?

[jerrywall]

Jerrywall, have you been to Central Market in Dallas?

Not that I recall.

[jerrywall]

if several hundred grocers started doing wine and beer don't you think some of those impossible to buy in OK brands will get brought into the state legally and taxed for everyone's benefit?

No, I don't think so. There won't be a sudden increase in the amount of liquor being sold in Oklahoma, so if there is no market reason for a brand to come here now, there won't suddenly be a reason post grocery sales.

[jerrywall]

I'm not sure where you came up with that idea but Bud, Miller and Coors will still own the grocery store shelves.

I'm actually curious about that. Currently, shelf space can't be "purchased" for liquor products, in package retailers. However, shelf space CAN and is purchased for 3.2 beer. I wonder if they'll change the rules one way or another. That's the biggest barrier for local craft brewers.

[jerrywall]

This thread pretty much exemplifies what I thought, there are too many damn proposals and people are arguing about how to get the same thing. You know what will end up happening? Nothing, and we'll still be stuck with the same ol' crap we have now.

Nah, things are changing. It's a matter of which proposals make it. Personally, I would have preferred a simpler bill such as cold beer or single strength only, without a full revamp, which would have been easier to pass (and in fact, cold beer would not require a vote and could be done immediately). But I still don't doubt change will happen. There have honestly been a surprising amount of changes and evolution to the liquor laws in Oklahoma over the past decade.

[jerrywall]

That's the biggest contradiction to date on this thread. Buying wine or beer through the mail? Skipping OTC taxes?

Only if you're a tax cheat. I pay my sales taxes for things I buy from out of state. Amazon even gives me a nice little report to help with my filing.

[Plutonic Panda]

Not that I recall.

Ah. Next time you are up there, check them out. They have a pretty nice selection of wine. They have one on Coit Road I believe North of the George Bush turnpike and one along 75 close to the 630 somewhere. They are really nice but I really love their seafood selection.

[bille]

There have honestly been a surprising amount of changes and evolution to the liquor laws in Oklahoma over the past decade.

There has? Oh, surprising for OK and you're certainly referencing wine, yes?

[jerrywall]

There has? Oh, surprising for OK and you're certainly referencing wine, yes?

A few others. Samples at breweries, sales on election day, etc. Off the top of my head.