Trader Joe's

[BDP]

I haven't heard anything about an additional TJ's or Whole Foods.

I hope we eventually get both.

I can't imagine them not doing well in Norman.

[Pete]

I can't imagine them not doing well in Norman.

You would think.

But as I've pointed out, all these retailers have to weigh opportunity cost. Due to capital and personnel constraints, every retailer has to evaluate the next investment. Living in SoCal for 25 years, I can tell you they could open another 50 stores there which would outperform anything in Oklahoma.

In fact, many people stay away from TJ's out there simply because most of the stores are absolute madhouses. When I first moved to Cali there was one I'd pass on my way home and I soon learned to take another route because cars would be stopped in the street waiting for a parking space.

I go to the OKC location quite a bit and I've never seen it as busy as the slowest TJ's I ever saw in California. And that's saying something because our location is always pretty busy.

All these points also hold for Costco, BTW.

[BDP]

^^^

For sure.

and OKC demographics don't always meet the models major retailers use to identify locations. A spreadsheet may not show another location in OKC metro as a good bet, but we know Norman and maybe Edmond would work.

And, these days, retailers are having trouble staffing the locations they already have,

[Pete]

^

And remember, the 2nd Costco in Moore has underperformed by many accounts.

When I was going to Costco the most in California, I lived in a suburban area with about the same density as OKC. AND there were two different locations within about 5 miles of me and of course dozens more in SoCal.

Yet there were times when you literally couldn't find a parking space at my Costcos. As in, you had to turn around and leave.

I had 3 Labradors that ate me out of house and home and the Kirkland brand of food was well known to be Iams for 1/2 the price. And before Thanksgiving every year, I had to stockpile that food and some other key staples because I literally couldn't get into Costco from late November until the New Year. And even if you could, it was so chaotic you wish you hadn't.

Even when OKC only had one Costco, I'd go all the time without considering the day or time of year. It's never been close to anything I saw in California.

[jdg78]

The location in Moore is terrible. Should’ve gone on I44 in Lariat Landing. Pete - Do you think the airport lication would’ve performed better? Pulls Tri-city, Mustang, Yukon, Moore and Norman.

[The]

The location in Moore is terrible. Should’ve gone on I44 in Lariat Landing. Pete - Do you think the airport lication would’ve performed better? Pulls Tri-city, Mustang, Yukon, Moore and Norman.

Norman or Yukon would’ve been much better. Moore is a miserable suburban hell.

[jdg78]

Ah yes. Yukon… the new Urban mecca����*♂️

[FighttheGoodFight]

Wasn't the reason it went to Moore is that Norman didn't want to grant them 2 million for the land and redo of the Indian Hills highway exit? I guess that turned out ok since that will now be a turnpike anyway.

[Pete]

All I know is that if I was working for TJ's or Costco and it was my job to find the next successful locations, I'm not sure I'd risk my job on Edmond or Mustang or Norman when I knew darn well I could open the 100th location in California and have it be a guaranteed home run.

I just looked and TJ's has 119 locations in California which is about 1 for every 300,000 people. Oklahoma only has two which means 1 store for 2,000,000 people. Yet, the West Coast stores are infinitely busier. Not surprisingly, there are 8 more California stores on their 'coming soon' list.

[midtownokcer]

All I know is that if I was working for TJ's or Costco and it was my job to find the next successful locations, I'm not sure I'd risk my job on Edmond or Mustang or Norman when I knew darn well I could open the 100th location in California and have it be a guaranteed home run.

I just looked and TJ's has 119 locations in California which is about 1 for every 300,000 people. Oklahoma only has two which means 1 store for 2,000,000 people. Yet, the West Coast stores are infinitely busier. Not surprisingly, there are 8 more California stores on their 'coming soon' list.

Yup. The Costcos I'd frequent around Temecula and north of San Diego were absolute madhouses with the line to check out going all the way back to the freezer areas on any given day. OKC is definitely busier than Moore, but I can be assured that it's nice and quiet on a weeknight at either location.

[cinnamonjock]

I have heard some businesses are slow to enter Norman due to its population being approximately a quarter students, where a large portion of those students are not in town for the summer or Christmas, making estimates for customer base and consistent employees trickier. At least, this is what I heard from someone at Summer Moon Coffee.

[FighttheGoodFight]

I have heard some businesses are slow to enter Norman due to its population being approximately a quarter students, where a large portion of those students are not in town for the summer or Christmas, making estimates for customer base and consistent employees trickier. At least, this is what I heard from someone at Summer Moon Coffee.

Isn't Norman the third biggest city in Oklahoma without the students counted as population? I would only assume that would help the numbers. But things do cool off in the summer around campus. Anything by 35 would probably bring in South OKC, Moore, and all the towns south of Norman.

But I don't think Trader Joes is putting any new stores in Oklahoma for a while. They seem pretty tight lipped about locations and expansions.

[Pete]

^

Norman is also at the far southern edge of the OKC MSA with nothing much south of there.

The thought has always been that South OKC and Norman would drive to Moore.

But Norman is now the 3rd largest city in the state and UNP is the most visited retail property in Oklahoma, and both those things work in its favor.

[Zuplar]

Norman or Yukon would’ve been much better. Moore is a miserable suburban hell.

That area of Yukon where everything is is absolutely every bit as horrible as 19th street in Moore.

[The]

That area of Yukon where everything is is absolutely every bit as horrible as 19th street in Moore.

Not even close to the misery of 19th.

[HOT ROD]

That's what I was thinking Pete, too bad Costco didn't consider locating at Norman's UNP or even Crossroads (IMO). Ive been to the Moore location as yes, it IS horrible - very difficult to get to when most if not all other Costcos have very easy egress to a major road/interstate.

Also must consider that Oklahoma does not have the Costco culture (or TJ culture for that matter). I do think OKC could support about 4 TJs (downtown [ready-to-eat mostly], current location, Edmond, Norman UNP) and Costco 'should' be able to open a location W/NW and E. But OKC's culture is more Sam's Club, and that's not a knock on OKC just that's what OKC grew up with - whereas California 'grew up' Costco, TJs, In N Out, etc. By comparison, does Sams Club do well in Cali? I know Sams Club pulled out of Pac NW completely years ago even though their pricing was often better than Costco's.

Sometimes, its just the culture.

[Pete]

I'm just grateful OKC has a TJ's. I missed it horribly when I first moved back.

I'm lucky that I don't live far away but even so, I would drive to Norman or Edmond if required.

[Rover]

That's what I was thinking Pete, too bad Costco didn't consider locating at Norman's UNP or even Crossroads (IMO). Ive been to the Moore location as yes, it IS horrible - very difficult to get to when most if not all other Costcos have very easy egress to a major road/interstate.

Also must consider that Oklahoma does not have the Costco culture (or TJ culture for that matter). I do think OKC could support about 4 TJs (downtown [ready-to-eat mostly], current location, Edmond, Norman UNP) and Costco 'should' be able to open a location W/NW and E. But OKC's culture is more Sam's Club, and that's not a knock on OKC just that's what OKC grew up with - whereas California 'grew up' Costco, TJs, In N Out, etc. By comparison, does Sams Club do well in Cali? I know Sams Club pulled out of Pac NW completely years ago even though their pricing was often better than Costco's.

Sometimes, its just the culture.

What are the "culture " differences in Sams v Costco?

[CPin405]

The least busy Trader Joe's I've seen in my time visiting Southern California was in Palmdale, which isn't a terribly large city but not small either. At that location, there usually were spots to be found.

Glad we have the one we have here but man we could totally support another store. But it is not my job and livelihood on the line to decide where to build the next store, so it is easy for me to say haha.

[scottk]

What are the "culture " differences in Sams v Costco?

The same as people in Oklahoma that rant and love on Sonic or Braum's, where if you grew up in the north you rave about Culvers, west coast it's In and Out, certain parts of Texas its all about Whattaburger or Dairy Queen. People like what they know and it is hard for many to break from that tradition. I've had many friends move out of state and when they first come back to Oklahoma they beg to go to Braum's for ice cream because it remind them of "home."

In regards to Costco, TJ's or other stores that try to break into the market, I think the large layout of OKC and our overall population density hurts the results of these stores. I rarely go to TJ's as it is 30 minutes from my house in NWOKC. Most places can only pull in people in a given radius. TJ's in Edmond or Norman would be great, but it wouldn't pull residents in from Yukon or Midwest City, etc.

This is an area where Tulsa can beat OKC, where three stores in Tulsa can be built and hit 80% of their metro, while in OKC you would have to build 4-5 stores to hit the same number of people.

[Pete]

This is an area where Tulsa can beat OKC, where three stores in Tulsa can be built and hit 80% of their metro, while in OKC you would have to build 4-5 stores to hit the same number of people.

Math says that since the OKC Metro is 50% more populated than Tulsa, the same number of stores here would reach at least as many there, and likely many more.

This is why companies go to bigger cities first and expand there first.

Tulsa has absolutely zero advantage over OKC which is why the huge percentage of retailers come here first and expand here first. This old narrative needs to die because it's easily disproven.

[scottk]

Just to run the numbers, TJ's in other metro's in our region or similar in size based upon MSA's

Oklahoma City - 1,477,926 - 1 location
Tulsa, OK - 1,044,757 - 1 location
Wichita, KS - 652,939- 1 location
Little Rock, AR - 764,045 - 1 location
Kansas City KS/MO - 2,221,343 - 2 locations (located both on the southeast side and about 4 miles a part.)
Nashville, TN - 2,102,573 - 3 locations
Memphis, TN - 1,335,674- 1 location
San Antonio, TX -2,703,999 - 2 locations
New Orleans, LA - 962,165 - 1 location
Omaha, NE - 983,969 - 1 location
Salt Lake City, UT 1,267,864 - 4 locations
Austin, TX - 2,473,275 - 3 locations

Given this data, it seems likely OKC would be with one TJ location until we get close to the 2 million mark in our Metro?

[HOT ROD]

What are the "culture " differences in Sams v Costco?

People in OKC are used to/more comfortable shopping where they know or are used to, which is Sams. People on the west coast, esp up here, are more comforable shopping where we know/used to, which is Costco.

As I said, Sams completely pulled out of not only the Seattle-Tacoma metro, but Portland and the entire Pac NW and it wasn't COVID related (they left long prior to Covid, after making a significant investment here in the mid/late 2000s). How could Sams Club fail in a nearly 4 million population metro yet both it and Costco exist in OKC with 1.5 million?

Culture.

[Soonerman]

Just to run the numbers, TJ's in other metro's in our region or similar in size based upon MSA's

Oklahoma City - 1,477,926 - 1 location
Tulsa, OK - 1,044,757 - 1 location
Wichita, KS - 652,939- 1 location
Little Rock, AR - 764,045 - 1 location
Kansas City KS/MO - 2,221,343 - 2 locations (located both on the southeast side and about 4 miles a part.)
Nashville, TN - 2,102,573 - 3 locations
Memphis, TN - 1,335,674- 1 location
San Antonio, TX -2,703,999 - 2 locations
New Orleans, LA - 962,165 - 1 location
Omaha, NE - 983,969 - 1 location
Salt Lake City, UT 1,267,864 - 4 locations
Austin, TX - 2,473,275 - 3 locations

Given this data, it seems likely OKC would be with one TJ location until we get close to the 2 million mark in our Metro?

Interesting that Salt Lake City has four locations

[btmec]

I moved to OKC after spending 50 years in LA and I still own property there so I go back frequently. When I'm in LA I've stopped going to TJs and instead go to Erewhon. A lot of people have done the same and that's why Erewhon is growing so fast.