Cannabis

[Bunty]

Face it, people. There is a severe lack of compassion in Oklahoma, which explains why the current medical marijuana petition is so miserably failing in getting enough signatures. As I see it, it arises from the lack of people who have children with epilepsy. It comes from the lack of people who have lupus. It comes from the lack of people who discovered their migraine headaches stopped after for the first time smoking marijuana regularly. It comes from the lack of people who have MS. It comes from a lack of veterans with PTHD. It comes from the lack of people who have constant pain, due to fibromyalgia. It comes from the lack of people with inoperable brain tumors. And on and on it goes.

If enough Oklahoma state legislators could relate to the above, then medical marijuana would have been legal by now. But my state senator several years ago admitted before a town hall meeting that he had been living under a rock when it comes to knowing about marijuana. At least, I haven't been in perfect health all my life and can relate to what medical marijuana can be about and so can have some compassion for others, who think it can do them a lot of good.

[Jim Kyle]

Face it, people. There is a severe lack of compassion in Oklahoma.

I disagree with this. I think we demonstrate, daily, that as a state we have more compassion than the average bear.

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.

Never mind that some of the greatest musicians of our time depended on it to hone their reflexes (think Krupa, Satchmo, who knows who else). Never mind its documented medical properties.

When the evils have been drummed into us from the cradle, we know what we know and never mind the facts.

Take a leaf from the religious right and bring up the children. Not until then will you succeed!

[OKCRT]

I disagree with this. I think we demonstrate, daily, that as a state we have more compassion than the average bear.

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.

Never mind that some of the greatest musicians of our time depended on it to hone their reflexes (think Krupa, Satchmo, who knows who else). Never mind its documented medical properties.

When the evils have been drummed into us from the cradle, we know what we know and never mind the facts.

Take a leaf from the religious right and bring up the children. Not until then will you succeed!

I agree 100%. IMO OK will be one of the last states to get on board. And law enforcement officials will fight this all the way. They don't care if it can help people. Their goal is to lock up as many people as possible.

[TU 'cane]

I disagree with this. I think we demonstrate, daily, that as a state we have more compassion than the average bear.

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.

Never mind that some of the greatest musicians of our time depended on it to hone their reflexes (think Krupa, Satchmo, who knows who else). Never mind its documented medical properties.

When the evils have been drummed into us from the cradle, we know what we know and never mind the facts.

Take a leaf from the religious right and bring up the children. Not until then will you succeed!

Bunty makes several great points that are certainly true. However, I have to agree with you Jim, that I don't believe Oklahoma lacks compassion, per se.
I can see how until certain issues personally affect legislators or more people (which, honestly we don't want that scenario), there will be little movement on health progress. But, I don't necessarily think we can grade the entire state's overall level of compassion just on this issue. Perhaps we can, but I just don't think so.

We have too many people who have been brainwashed via the Drug War, it's that simple. It's beyond health, it's the fact that it's vile in the eyes of many.
Even if we were to get the signatures, it'd be another battle when it comes to the vote.

I agree 100%. IMO OK will be one of the last states to get on board. And law enforcement officials will fight this all the way. They don't care if it can help people. Their goal is to lock up as many people as possible.

This is still something I agree with (actually, both your points), despite national trends.
Think about it, just 10 years ago we were the last state to have legalized tattooing...
Let that sink in.

I see hundreds of cars that pass these petition stands and people are always looking, but they don't get out and sign. I'm telling you, people are afraid to get out and sign for fear of who might see them, because, you know, it's a super evil and bad thing (as they drink their beer every night and smoke their cigarettes).

[bchris02]

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.

I think this is key right here. Most people are not critical thinkers and will stick to what they've been told their entire life, and that is that marijuana is dangerous, a gateway drug, and only used by lowlifes and thus should remain illegal. This is especially true among the older generation which is why the polls show a more lax attitude towards marijuana than the laws reflect.

It's the same thing with the temperance movement of the late 19th and early 20th century that resulted in alcohol prohibition. An entire generation was raised to view alcohol as evil and that belief persisted long after prohibition ended. In Oklahoma, many of those things are still being dealt with today.

[ctchandler]

(as they drink their beer every night and smoke their cigarettes).

Tu 'cane,
Wow, what a broad brush you paint with! I agree with a lot you say, but that was uncalled for. Besides, beer and cigarettes are legal, whether we like it or not. I know a lot of folks (and not all of them old) that don't drink or smoke but aren't for legalized marijuana. Not strongly against it, but not willing to support legalization. I have a problem with it because it's against federal law. I wanted to try it when I was in Amsterdam because I thought it was legal. Turns out it isn't legal, but it is "tolerated" and I'm just not the type to break the laws of any country, so I have still never used marijuana. By the way, I'm strongly for decriminalization.
C. T.

[TU 'cane]

Tu 'cane,
Wow, what a broad brush you paint with! I agree with a lot you say, but that was uncalled for. Besides, beer and cigarettes are legal, whether we like it or not. I know a lot of folks (and not all of them old) that don't drink or smoke but aren't for legalized marijuana. Not strongly against it, but not willing to support legalization. I have a problem with it because it's against federal law. I wanted to try it when I was in Amsterdam because I thought it was legal. Turns out it isn't legal, but it is "tolerated" and I'm just not the type to break the laws of any country, so I have still never used marijuana. By the way, I'm strongly for decriminalization.
C. T.

With respect, there is nothing in my post that was uncalled for.
I was calling out everyone who drinks alcohol and smokes cigarettes but wants to judge those who smoke marijuana or who won't get out and sign a petition for legalization. I bring that up because more people than we think do either or both, despite the fact that there have been a multitude of studies to suggest and prove how dangerous both are. And, I'm sure most of us on here have seen the numbers, but both alcohol and tobacco kill hundreds of thousands every year, how many for marijuana?
It's hypocritical, and that was my point, which played into what Bunty was talking about regarding people being oblivious to the health benefits.

And I'm certainly not standing on a pedestal, as I consume both of the aforementioned.

[ctchandler]

With respect, there is nothing in my post that was uncalled for.

TU 'cane,
Sorry, the problem with selecting a portion of your comment was that I left some out that would show what I was talking about. "I see hundreds of cars that pass these petition stands and people are always looking, but they don't get out and sign. I'm telling you, people are afraid to get out and sign for fear of who might see them, because, you know, it's a super evil and bad thing (as they drink their beer every night and smoke their cigarettes)". It appeared that you were saying everybody that was afraid to sign the petition were going home to drink and smoke. You say that was not your intent. Sorry about the misunderstanding. I still remind you that two are legal, one is not. And I too partake in one, I quit the other December, 1999.
C. T.

[TU 'cane]

No worries, I figured we were just misunderstanding one another. It happens.

[TheTravellers]

... I have a problem with it because it's against federal law. ...
C. T.

You do realize that the reason(s) it's against federal law are pretty much based on lies, racism, protecting the profits of newspapers, etc., and not for any real, actual dangerous-to-people facts, right?

Why is Marijuana Illegal? « Drug WarRant

"Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal."

[OKCRT]

You do realize that the reason(s) it's against federal law are pretty much based on lies, racism, protecting the profits of newspapers, etc., and not for any real, actual dangerous-to-people facts, right?

Why is Marijuana Illegal? « Drug WarRant

"Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal."

The American people were scammed once again.

[TU 'cane]

Oh, Traveller, you're making the rest of us blush

[ctchandler]

You do realize that the reason(s) it's against federal law are pretty much based on lies, racism, protecting the profits of newspapers, etc., and not for any real, actual dangerous-to-people facts, right?

Why is Marijuana Illegal? « Drug WarRant

"Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal."

TheTravellers,
Nothing you say can change the fact that if I were to use marijuana, I would be breaking the law. We are a country of laws, and if I, one single individual can break the laws that don't please me, and 300+ million people picked and chose which laws they would abide by and the ones they would ignore, what would our country be? Chaotic and doomed! If you don't like the law, change it, otherwise, abide by it.
C. T.

[jerrywall]

"protecting the profits of newspapers"

Gotta ask out of curiosity.... how?

[jerrywall]

Nevermind.... found it.

[TheTravellers]

TheTravellers,
Nothing you say can change the fact that if I were to use marijuana, I would be breaking the law. We are a country of laws, and if I, one single individual can break the laws that don't please me, and 300+ million people picked and chose which laws they would abide by and the ones they would ignore, what would our country be? Chaotic and doomed! If you don't like the law, change it, otherwise, abide by it.
C. T.

Wow, we will never see eye-to-eye on things like this with your unwavering allegiance to "the law". Yes, you would be breaking a law, but you would be breaking a law that was born out of lies and other unethical things, is unreasonable, is outdated, is responsible for waaaaaaaaaaay too many people being in prison, as well as enriching law enforcement with asset seizure.

Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....

There are reasons to disobey unjust/wrong laws instead of just always following them, and yes, I'm working on changing the marijuana laws.

[Stew]

My 80'ish year old uncle a right wing law and order type was always dead set against pot until he tried an edible not too long ago. Now he'll tell ya how wrong his opposition was and how much it has improved his quality of life. And what a shame he's now a daily law breaker for only trying to feel better.

This pot legalization thing is a no brainier.

[OKCRT]

My 80'ish year old uncle a right wing law and order type was always dead set against pot until he tried an edible not too long ago. Now he'll tell ya how wrong his opposition was and how much it has improved his quality of life. And what a shame he's now a daily law breaker for only trying to feel better.

This pot legalization thing is a no brainier.

I would say that most people with chronic daily pain would benefit from breaking this law. The influential Publishing Co's and others,timber,textiles ect ect. paid to have Pot deemed a bad drug years ago. I seriously doubt that law would be passed today but people back then had limited info. and limited access to news so the big city newspapers could pretty much control the masses with their propaganda.

But we are in Oklahoma and are way behind times compared to other parts of the country and I would be shocked if OK. wasn't one of the last states to get on board. So as of today you smoke Pot you are breaking the law and go directly to jail. So we build a new jail to get all these bad law breakers off the streets..

[ctchandler]

Wow, we will never see eye-to-eye on things like this with your unwavering allegiance to "the law". Yes, you would be breaking a law, but you would be breaking a law that was born out of lies and other unethical things, is unreasonable, is outdated, is responsible for waaaaaaaaaaay too many people being in prison, as well as enriching law enforcement with asset seizure.

Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....

There are reasons to disobey unjust/wrong laws instead of just always following them, and yes, I'm working on changing the marijuana laws.

I was raised to follow the rules and obey the laws, there is nothing wrong with civil discourse, but the bottom line is, as I said, we are a country of laws.
"If it be asked, What is the most sacred duty and the greatest source of our security in a Republic? The answer would be, An inviolable respect for the Constitution and Laws — the first growing out of the last." —Alexander Hamilton, 1794".
Breaking them is not the way our system is supposed to work, changing them is. I mentioned earlier that I am strongly in favor of decriminalizing the use of marijuana. How many countries have legalized it? Not being argumentative, I'm actually curious. And of course, what other countries do has no bearing on what we do here, so don't jump on me for my curiosity. Also, I'm curious about what you are referring to when you say "Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....".
C. T.

[twade]

With adult use polling at 58% nationally, up from 51% just last year, it's only a matter of time.

I have little faith that the 2016 initiatives will make the ballot in Oklahoma, but 2020 could be a different story.

[Jim Kyle]

I'm curious about what you are referring to when you say "Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....".
C. T.

He's referring to such things as the Katz Drug sit-in here in OKC, as Rosa Parks's refusal to go to the back of the bus, as the entire philosophy of Dr. Martin Luther King. Need I continue? When I was in school, The Law prohibited black children from attending the same school as whites, or even using the same drinking fountains. Civil disobedience is what exposed those laws for what they were, and led to their abolition.

For that matter, all of our Founding Fathers blatantly broke the law of the land when they rebelled against English rule and declared our independence. So did Abe Lincoln when he chose to suspend the (constitutionally guaranteed) right of habeas corpus during the War Between The States.

Slavish obedience to bad law is NOT good citizenship. It simply perpetuates injustice.

[White Peacock]

I was raised to follow the rules and obey the laws, there is nothing wrong with civil discourse, but the bottom line is, as I said, we are a country of laws.

The "a country of laws" thing is a soundbite, and that's it. What established nation isn't "a country of laws?" What country announces itself as a lawless nation?

Some laws are good and necessary, and some are examples of overreach and excessive control over the populace. The latter need to be broken by many, many people until opponents of said laws are able to get a word in edgewise in the legislative process. If people weren't exercising their natural right to civil disobedience, what chance would there be of lawmakers being convinced something has to change? If nobody smoked grass...if everybody respected the prohibition, then there would be zero compelling reason for the laws to be changed. Why lift the prohibition on something nobody seems to be using anyway?

[jerrywall]

Civil Disobedience, to me, would imply lighting up a joint in front of the police headquarters and demanding to be arrested (with 30 of your friends).

Smoking at home, in private, is just breaking the law. I don't judge. But don't claim some social warrior status for breaking the law in secret and bragging about it.

[ctchandler]

He's referring to such things as the Katz Drug sit-in here in OKC, as Rosa Parks's refusal to go to the back of the bus, as the entire philosophy of Dr. Martin Luther King. Need I continue? When I was in school, The Law prohibited black children from attending the same school as whites, or even using the same drinking fountains. Civil disobedience is what exposed those laws for what they were, and led to their abolition.

For that matter, all of our Founding Fathers blatantly broke the law of the land when they rebelled against English rule and declared our independence. So did Abe Lincoln when he chose to suspend the (constitutionally guaranteed) right of habeas corpus during the War Between The States.

Slavish obedience to bad law is NOT good citizenship. It simply perpetuates injustice.

Jim,
I didn't consider any of that as "a few decades ago", Katz Drug was in 1958 I believe, I was here when that was going on, close to 60 years ago and Selma was in the very early 60's, so that was why I asked the question. During these difficult times, there were mostly legal protests and marches (and of course, the mostly illegal activities by the segregationists), and then the civil rights act during the Johnston administration. So, it's not all about breaking laws, it's about changing them. By the way comparing marijuana issues with the declaration of independence (over human rights issues), the civil rights movement, and president Lincoln is truly apples and oranges. I'm a little younger than you and I don't remember the "separate" drinking fountains but we did have separate schools (separate, but equal).
C. T.

[White Peacock]

Civil Disobedience, to me, would imply lighting up a joint in front of the police headquarters and demanding to be arrested (with 30 of your friends).

Smoking at home, in private, is just breaking the law. I don't judge. But don't claim some social warrior status for breaking the law in secret and bragging about it.

Great, thanks for your perspective.