OKC or TULSA? Which Metro Has The Most Long-Term Growth Potential?

[Easy180]

Lived in both cities and neither city is better than the other overall just a little different....The only major difference is it's easier to get around in OKC with all of the highways....Oh and the hills in Tulsa, which really aren't fun to drive in bad weather

Other than that aside from a few different restaurants I didn't see too much difference...I don't do musuems so can't really comment there

[shane453]

They're different. Both are great, unique cities. I really like Tulsa, and I'm really proud that we have these two cities in Oklahoma that are so cool and different from each other and both bursting at the seams with potential and forward-thinking people... There's so much negativity from both sides about "the other city" when really we should be appreciating how much we have as a state, and how great the future looks.

OKC and Tulsa both have a lot of exciting urban projects and neighborhoods undergoing renaissance. The Triangle, Midtown, Riverside, Uptown, Film Exchange, Arts District, CBD, and Medical/biotech District in OKC are going crazy with developments, and in Tulsa there's the East End, Midtown, Pearl District, Centennial Walk, the arena area, Jenks, and so much on the river... In 10 years Oklahoma will have two cities that are bigger and better than they are today, and that's all that matters- doesn't matter which one is biggest in 10 years or ever because they'll always be similar in size and population means nothing compared to the quality of the city- and our cities will both be among the highest quality cities in the nation.

[bombermwc]

AMEN! Now that's the kind of thing I like to hear people say in threads like this. Not that something on one side is so much better because of this or that, but the fact that both places are great!

[AFCM]

Well said, Shane. I agree with you, but I just didn't get around to writing my thoughts on the topic sooner.

Not to be lewd, but I like the area between the belly button and neck on a woman. Other guys like the caboose. It's all a matter of preference.

I tried to be PC. Sorry for the analogy, but I think it works.

[HOT ROD]

FYI - Yes I have been to Tulsa and liked it a lot as a kid.

But that was then, this is now. And it seems that people from there want to live on the past stereotypes which are not the case today.

AND I'd have to say with all honesty - Tulsan's are much more hostile in general than OKCans. Here is an example, even when someone from OKC has an opinion about Tulsa (which might be constructive or construed as negative), they still commend the city. The same can NOT be said for Tulsans for when they "critique" or better yet condemn OKC - they hvae NOTHING good to say.

And Tulsa media puts the name Oklahoma to shame. Like I said, if its published in OKC - we at least mention Tulsa and other cities/regions of the state and what they have to offer. A Tulsa published works will ONLY mention Tulsa and Green country as OKLAHOMA. This sort of thing is not seen in other states, why dont Tulsan's promote TULSA - they used to (used to want to split from the state, now - they think they ARE the state).

Like I and almost everyone else in OKC have said time and time again - Tulsa is a great city, very pretty in certain areas, and certainly has a more upscale urban appeal in general. But OKC has passed it by because Tulsan's have been sitting by on the past (for whatever reason - mayor, citizen apathy, whatever).

This opinion can NOT be disputed nor can the fact that OKC IS the dominant city in Oklahoma. Put it this way, have Tulsa fail (which it did) and the state still gets by; have OKC fail - and this state does not recover!!

Given that, OKC clearly is the dominant centre.

[HOT ROD]

Honestly, Shane hit it on the nail above.

Oklahoma has two great cities - I wish both could work together. OKC could focus on its obvious economy of scale and recognition while Tulsa can add in her charm and beauty to make Oklahoma a "one-two punch" for the region.

A visit to Oklahoma should not be complete without first landing and setting up base in downtown OKC. Then after 50% of time spent in the city, 35% should be spent in Tulsa. The remaining 15% could be spent in Lawton or the SE or the N.

I think such a marketing strategy would be highly successful and allow both cities to "ca$h in" if you will - using the strengths of each other.

In my honest opinion, OKC already offers this marketing strategy - its Tulsa who doesnt.

[jbrown84]

Exactly. It's unfortunate that many Tulsans would tell visitors to stay away from OKC completely. That's either blatant ignorance or jealousy.

[Swake2]

Tulsa - Urban Tulsa Weekly

JANUARY 3, 2007

Dance Master

Marcello Angelini re-invented an iconic dance companyAnd along the way, he's teaching the city to keep step with his progressive rhythms

BY HOLLY WALL

Twelve years ago, the Tulsa Ballet was in a state of transition and near-turmoil. The air was uncertain; former Artistic Director Roman Larkin Jasinski, successor to TB's founders and his parents, Moscelyne Larkin and Roman Jasinski, was making his tumultuous exit, and with him, so was a large percentage of the Ballet's dancers.

The state in which Roman Larkin Jasinski and TB's former Executive Director, Connie Cronley, left the company in 1994 left many doubting the future of the Tulsa Ballet.

What remained was a thinly-spread company holding its breath, waiting to see what would happen--hanging on the slender hope of what the incoming Artistic Director, 32-year-old Marcello Angelini might bring with him.

Going into the second half of the current season, his 12th with Tulsa Ballet, there is no one who can match Angelini for his sheer impact on the city's arts scene over the past decade.

Among Tulsa's "Hot 100" (see UTW's annual look at local movers and shakers, Pages 11-13) he is igniting the imagination of ballet patrons as well as kindling a fire of interest among a whole new generation of young people looking for something different, and artistically solid.

Perhaps no one knew at the time what vision this Italian dancer would have for the Tulsa Ballet, that over the next few years, under his leadership, the Ballet would become one of the best in the world, ranked 10th in the nation, boasting some of the most talented dancers from all over the globe.

A city overly concerned about keeping semi-successful, single-dimensional football and coaches should wise up to retaining this living legend it has currently in its midst.

Angelini was quick to mend fences between dancers and the board of directors, associations that had been on thin ice when the younger Jasinski was in charge, and to build working relationships with his predecessors. He quickly earned the nickname "The Italian Tornado."

Principal Alfonso Martin and Soloist Ashley Blade-Martin have been dancing with the Tulsa Ballet under Angelini's tutelage for the last eight years.

"You know, it's not any one thing that we have learned from Marcello; it is more the generosity with which he opens up that book and literally passes down the knowledge gained over the course of his lifetime in dance," Ashley pondered.

"He also has a great reverence and passion for the art form, which is something that comes through in his work. It is very awe-inspiring to work with someone who manages to always help you remember what it was that inspired you to dance to begin with."

That's the thing about Angelini's vision -- it's not just a vision, a hope, a prediction for the future, but it is a living and breathing entity. It is every ballet performed, every class taught. Every movement of every dancer in the company speaks to Angelini's vision.

Step by Step

Angelini's vision begins with a journey. Born in Naples, Italy, a city "squeezed between the sea and mountains," about the size of Tulsa with a population of about three million people, Angelini was raised by a ballet-dancing father and a bookkeeping mother. From his youngest years, he knew what he wanted to be when he grew up.

"I clearly remember being nine years old and people asking me what I wanted to be when I grew up. My answer was always the same... A dancer and a pilot," he said.

Angelini achieved both of those dreams; he's fulfilled a remarkable career as a ballet dancer and has been a pilot, as well, for the last 18 years.

As a child, Angelini says he was shy, interested in dance, the arts, physics and, of course, girls. He says his mother, the only non-dancer in the family (his brother was also a dancer) kept the rest of the family grounded, and it was from her he inherited his proficiency in math. And though math has aided him in being as shrewd a businessman as he is a creative artist, it was never his passion.

"I remember very well the day that my interest in dance became love for the art form," Angelini said.

He recalled watching, with his father and a number of other dancers, a stage rehearsal for Giselle at the San Carlo Opera House, where his father danced. On stage was the legendary Vladimir Vassiliev, a guest from the Bolshoi, dancing the part of Albrecht in the cemetery, where the woman Albrecht betrayed, who was consequently killed, was buried.

"I remember his first entrance, so full of sorrow, permeated by vulnerability, and yet that man looked larger than life. The sincerity of his pain filled the stage. The strength of his feelings filled the house.

"Then he started dancing, and he was like a hungry lion finally let out of his cage in pursuit of his prey. The power, the passion, the feelings, the jumps, the athleticism of this dancer totally impressed me," Angelini recalled, the passion reflected in his eyes, echoed in his voice.

Angelini said he turned to his father at that moment and told him, "I want to be a dancer, and I want to dance this role."

His father, not wanting to discourage Marcello but telling him simply, truthfully, informed his son that even if he were to become a dancer, his chances of dancing that role were slim, as it was reserved for the most elite of dancers.

That would not be the last time someone would tell Angelini he couldn't do something and be defied by his determination.

"After five years in the school of the opera house, I was invited, in spite of the friendship between my dad and the director of the school, to choose another profession, as they didn't think I would ever become a dancer," Angelini recalled. "I was 13 at the time and had scoliosis.

"I remember going to the office of the director and telling him that he didn't understand the first thing about dance, that not only would I become a dancer, but I would become a principal dancer and that one day I would go back as a star and ask them for a lot of money to dance for the company."

And 15 years later, he did. He was invited by Rudolf Nurijev to dance the lead role in his mega-production of Cinderella, created for the Paris Opera Ballet -- and yes, he did ask them for a small fortune.

He also danced the role his father told him he would never dance--the role of Albrecht in Giselle. He danced the role in five different versions of the ballet, eventually dancing Vladimir Vassiliev's version of the work.

And the dream isn't over yet--Angelini has staged his own version of the ballet, and TB spent Christmas setting it for the company of the Massimo Opera House in Palermo, Italy.

Leaps and Bounds

After Angelini graduated from the opera house, he began working with legendary teacher and director Evgeny Polyakov in Florence. "Just for fun," he applied to be one of two recipients, out of 65 million applicants, of a government scholarship to graduate again in Russia.

"Well, I won it! I should have learned right then and there not to apply for things just for fun," Angelini laughed, foreshadowing.

After graduating in Russia, Angelini returned to Florence, where he would meet his wife, Daniela Buson, TB Ballet Mistress who retired as a Principal dancer earlier this year. Together, they have twin sons, Valentino and Alessandro, who turn nine this year.

Angelini and Buson danced together all over the world, including the Deutsche Opera in Berlin, the Northern Ballet Theater in England, the English National Ballet, the Scottish Ballet, the Basel Ballet in Switzerland, Les Grands Ballets Canadienes in Montreal, the Cincinnati Ballet and Ballet West in the U.S., the Teatro Municipal in Santiago, Chile and as guest dancers in some of the major opera houses in Italy.

Then, some 12 years ago, Angelini found himself suffering from an Achilles tendon injury and unable to dance for weeks.

"Well, this was another time I did something for fun," he began. "In talking with my agent, I told him that, one day, I would be interested in directing a ballet company.

"He advised that, if this was my goal, I had to get my name out there and start interviewing. It would take time and many tries, but once my interviewing skills improved, I might get a chance."

His agent told him that the Tulsa Ballet was looking for a new artistic director, and on a whim, Angelini applied. He was surprised and excited to receive a call from Donna Bost, the head of the search committee at the time. He was even more surprised when she asked him to come to Tulsa for an interview, a step in the process reserved for final candidates.

"I came to Tulsa, met a lot of wonderful people, talked to a lot of equally brilliant individuals, went back home to Cincinnati, signed a two-year contract and bought a house. That is how sure I was that I wouldn't get the job.

"On my way back from signing the documents on the house, there was a message on my answering machine. I called Donna back, and the best image I have of that day is seeing Daniela laughing so hard while I am on the phone that she eventually ended up on the floor, belly up, pointing at me and just crying with laughter."

Sky's the Limit

Over the past 12 years, TB has evolved into what Angelini says its founders and his predecessors hoped it would be.

"Today we have a repertory that is rich and varied and spans the entire width of recorded dance history from the first romantic works of the 19th century to the works of leading contemporary choreographers today," Angelini said.

"Our roster of choreographers is comparable to companies that are 10 times larger than ours, and, I am proud to say, no other ballet company with our budget size has the works of the leading dance makers that work with us."

Angelini said organizations similar in size to TB normally don't have the finances or caliber of dancers to produce the works TB does. He admits that while financial negotiations are still tricky, the company is approved to perform the works it is because of its exceptional dancers, who come from 14 countries and a countless number of states in the U.S. to live in Tulsa and dance with the Tulsa Ballet.

"Today we have in Tulsa a company that presents the same repertory you will see in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Houston, Paris or London, danced by their resident companies," Angelini said.

Angelini's first goal was to make TB an international ballet company, which it is. Next, he wants to see the company grow both in its contribution to the community and as a creative international force in the world of dance.

As far as the first phase of Angelini's goal goes, TB has already set in motion a plan of action to achieve it with the Tulsa Ballet Center for Dance Education.

Within the school, TB provides dance education to students interested in pursuing ballet professionally as well as to those who "just love to dance." TB also provides free instruction to public school students at the TB studios under the Leaps Ahead program. Students are outfitted with proper dance clothes and floors and are taught by Tulsa Ballet faculty staff. The traveling version of this program is called Leaps in Motion.

Another new entity is Tulsa Ballet II, TB's second company, which performs at the studios and in schools in a 50-minute program called "Journey Through Dance," an interactive presentation of the history of dance. With these programs, the Ballet is making dance available to all interested, not just a "select few.

The other project Angelini and the Tulsa Ballet are working on is to make TB a national force in the creation and evolution of the art form of ballet.

"We are already well on our way to realizing this dream, as works created here in Tulsa for TB have been later performed in other companies and communities including Ballet West in Salt Lake City, Orlando Ballet, Louisville Ballet and so on," said Angelini.

"But there is a renewed emphasis on shaping the future of the art form from Tulsa. In the spring of 2008 we will open a brand new theater, an intimate space that will be dedicated entirely to creations, and we will be debuting three World Premieres every year for the foreseeable future in that performance hall."

Feet Firmly Planted

Angelini directs the Tulsa Ballet with passion, enthusiasm and consistent anticipation for the future.

Principal Ma Cong, who is proving to be as much a force to be reckoned with as a choreographer as he is a dancer, said, "In working with Marcello, I have learned so many things that I don't think I could learn anywhere else.

"First, his artistry is like an ocean," Cong continues. "Every day you will have something new to learn, and he will explain ballet technique precisely as he is teaching us to insert our emotions into ballet.

"Everything he says has meaning in it to make us discover ourselves and find our talents. And he cares about dancing quality so much. He is really helping our art form grow in Tulsa and in the U.S.

"I think the most important thing Marcello contributes to Tulsa Ballet is that he makes the organization a wide-open window to the world," says Cong. "And he has made Tulsa Ballet in a short time to become one of the best ballet companies in the world and to be recognized internationally."

"Above all his other gifts, which are numerous, Marcello leads by example," said Martin. "He's a consummate perfectionist, and he expects his dancers to strive for excellence on many levels, which is no small feat. At the basest level, it is about integrity, drive and dedication.

"He would never ask of us that which he would not give of himself. This is probably the most important thing an artistic director can offer, and he has done it every day for as long as I've known him."

[floater]

The Tulsa Ballet is a real asset to Tulsa. I hope all Tulsans realize that, and that the city milk it for all its worth. TB can be the ambassador for Tulsa that the Cleveland Orchestra is for Cleveland. It blows away stereotypes, exemplifies excellence, and can be a unique economic center. For example, the Cleveland International Piano Competition would not have the respect it has worldwide without the Orchestra leaving a footprint of credibility in musical communities overseas.

What could OKC's ambassador be?

[metro]

The OKC Philharmonic and the OKCMOA...

[Rage 2.0]

Umm coming from the outside like some 5000 miles east or west of Oklahoma-- I see OKC as being the current growth leader but Tulsa is just now getting in the game... I just see that OKC is the capital and really had that advantage...

I can't quite get why ever is so jealous over OKC in Tulsa... It's like you can't even talk about it... But it seems like the same for OKC citizens... Do u guys really tell visitors to Hey you guys should go check out Tulsa ...? NOPE!!!

[jbrown84]

Do u guys really tell visitors to Hey you guys should go check out Tulsa ...? NOPE!!!

Absolutely. Maybe Tulsa should grow up and do the same.

[Rage 2.0]

Absolutely. Maybe Tulsa should grow up and do the same.

So how do we know that most of you guys say hey go visit Tulsa because as I read throw the post that members have made, it doesn't seem like it...

Plus it's only a city, same old same old... You guys might have some thing that Tulsa doesn't but Tulsa might have something that OKC doesn't...

As of growth wise-- OKC is on the ball and Tulsa just got in the game...

[bombermwc]

Why in the world did someone stir this crap up again? Let the thread die folks. There's no reason to waste time on this back and fourth crap. We go through this junk all the time with each city saying they are better than the other...it gets really old. Just clamp it shut and stop posting.

[jbrown84]

[QUOTE=Rage 2.0;84172Plus it's only a city, same old same old... You guys might have some thing that Tulsa doesn't but Tulsa might have something that OKC doesn't...[/QUOTE]

Exactly why we should both recognize the value of the other city, rather than ignoring it.

[HOT ROD]

or putting the other down

[Rage 2.0]

Right now, OKC has more energy, a better downtown, a better music scene, a better restaurant scene, a much bigger population and much more momentum.

Your right OKC does...

There is so much potential in Tulsa but people down here are so hard headed... We have proposals every week... Just Last Week-- $15 million on new river park trails...

[AFCM]

Bomber, Rage is new to the board and the OKC/Tulsa topic. While the OKC/Tulsa topic may be getting old for you, opinions should always be welcomed. Sometimes, things on the board seem to be running a little slowly and threads remain stagnant, so I don't mind if a long thread is revisited. The OKC/Tulsa thread seems to be a popular topic these days and I'm sure the moderators are happy with the traffic as long as people play by the rules.

[Rage 2.0]

Thanks for the warm Welcome but I knew bomber from another site...

[bombermwc]

It's not that I mind people restarting threads, it's just this one where it always seems that someone starts bashing the other city. I'm not saying Rage was going to do that at all or anything. If you look back in the other pages though, you get through a few posts and people start pissing on each other about how their town is better instead of just coming to the realization that both cities are great places and each has it's strong points. I'd much rather see a thread discussing the cities individually rather than comparing to each other.

[jbrown84]

Rage made a gross generalization that none of us would ever tell a visitor to check out Tulsa, when in fact, I do that very often as do many others on this board.

[redland]

First, let me say I have lived in both cities and love them both. On the question of population, however, I think OKC will continue to outpace Tulsa. I base this largely on what one would I guess call the "inertia factor." Back in 1930, the cities were virutally the same size: 185,000 for OKC and l41,000 for Tulsa. Since then OKC has had the greater gain every single decade (whether you consider city limits or metro area). The latest figues available from the census bureau are (for combined metro areas) 1,225,000 for OKC and 937,000 for Tulsa.
I see no compelling reason to think that this pattern won't continue. Through the years many have thought Tulsa had more potential for growth, especially at the time they were opening their Arkansas River port. And Tulsa does have a more impressive private entrerprise base. But when the census figures come in, OKC has always won the race.
As a postscript, some earlier posts have alluded to Tulsa being more cosmopolitan.
I think this was true in the past and may still hold to a certain extent. However the two cities have become more alike through the years, and the "cultural" scene in OKC these days is quite impressive.

[jbrown84]

As a postscript, some earlier posts have alluded to Tulsa being more cosmopolitan.
I think this was true in the past and may still hold to a certain extent. However the two cities have become more alike through the years, and the "cultural" scene in OKC these days is quite impressive.

Definitely agree with you there.

[jbrown84]

Anybody see the article in the JR about Vanguard and Dollar-Thrifty merging?

[HOT ROD]

First, let me say I have lived in both cities and love them both. On the question of population, however, I think OKC will continue to outpace Tulsa. I base this largely on what one would I guess call the "inertia factor." Back in 1930, the cities were virutally the same size: 185,000 for OKC and l41,000 for Tulsa. Since then OKC has had the greater gain every single decade (whether you consider city limits or metro area). The latest figues available from the census bureau are (for combined metro areas) 1,225,000 for OKC and 937,000 for Tulsa.
I see no compelling reason to think that this pattern won't continue. Through the years many have thought Tulsa had more potential for growth, especially at the time they were opening their Arkansas River port. And Tulsa does have a more impressive private entrerprise base. But when the census figures come in, OKC has always won the race.
As a postscript, some earlier posts have alluded to Tulsa being more cosmopolitan.
I think this was true in the past and may still hold to a certain extent. However the two cities have become more alike through the years, and the "cultural" scene in OKC these days is quite impressive.

very well said redland, and I agree for the most part.