Goose Deli (formerly Elk Valley Brewery)

[Midtowner]

We all know it was 15% until relatively recently, and that was the high end reserved for really good service.

There has been a continual creep in percentages and places asking for tips. Where does this end?

Yeah, kind of hard to claim this is because of inflation when prices at restauraunts seem to have almost doubled in the last few years.

[BoulderSooner]

^

Yeah, there are a handful of these newish point-of-sale companies and when their hardware and software started to be implemented, you suddenly started seeing the tipping prompts at the counter.

As I said, absolutely nothing else has changed -- certainly not the service -- other than the tech.


And BTW, sneakily 20% has become the *minimum* tip everywhere you go. We all know it was 15% until relatively recently, and that was the high end reserved for really good service.

There has been a continual creep in percentages and places asking for tips. Where does this end?

very much this ... pretty much my entire life it was 15% standard 20% for "good service" or more if you so choose ..

[TheHorseman]

It comes off as pretty disingenuous, and almost an admission that an employer knows they aren't paying their workers enough when they admit to relying on customers to pay extra to ensure their employees earn a living wage.

It'll be difficult to impossible to quantify how many customers you run off by having 30% tipping as on option on your POS screen, but it's going to run lots of customers off.

But that said, "where does our tax money go" is a question I had a smartass retort for, but it seemed too political. In sum, Google is your friend, this is not secret information.

Yeah, that was a rather off the cuff comment I had out of a bit of frustration with social flows. I'll dial it back.

[Johnb911]

Fox and Rye in Edmond is the first place I've been in recently that DIDN'T have the tip option. I even asked about it, because I was surprised. The lady working (could have been the owner, I don't know) told me 'we pay a living wage here, so we don't ask for tips.' It's a place I'm ashamed to say I haven't been back to as frequently as I should, because I support that kind of business plan.

[TheHorseman]

Fox and Rye in Edmond is the first place I've been in recently that DIDN'T have the tip option. I even asked about it, because I was surprised. The lady working (could have been the owner, I don't know) told me 'we pay a living wage here, so we don't ask for tips.' It's a place I'm ashamed to say I haven't been back to as frequently as I should, because I support that kind of business plan.

Yeah but, what is a living wage? How do you define "living wage"? By who's standards? If a person has 4 children and a spouse who can't work for whatever reason, does the "living wage" mean the same for them than a young person living at home with little to no responsibilities? I would rather focus on economic pressures and why it costs so much more to live that it used to in the past (pre-1990s). Something is wrong in the system.

[Pete]

^

At no time in our history has a single-wage earner been able to support a family of six working at a counter-service restaurant.

There are plenty of other more highly-paid jobs that don't require college: construction, various trades (all in need), medical care of various types, call centers, distribution, even working in an Amazon warehouse pays around $20/hour in OKC, which equates to over $40K a year plus benefits. Amazon will even pay your college tuition.

[BoulderSooner]

^

At no time in our history has a single-wage earner been able to support a family of six working at a counter-service restaurant.

There are plenty of other more highly-paid jobs that don't require college: construction, various trades (all in need), medical care of various types, call centers, distribution, even working in an Amazon warehouse pays around $20/hour in OKC, which equates to over $40K a year plus benefits. Amazon will even pay your college tuition.

had several friends in college work at UPS for, at the time, more then double min wage and UPS paid for their tuition ..

[SpaceGuy]

lol didn't mean to start a whole thing here.

really just meant to say customer service is a thankless job, increasingly so today because everyone went insane after covid, so i tip a few bucks anytime i am presented the option. clearly you all are under no obligation to tip. it's not required! but i do think if you're able to drop $13 on a sandwich then what is another $2.50 to you?

truly i wish every employer paid their employees $22/hr or whatever ups is paying. i also agree that it should not fall to the consumer! but! that's not the world we live in so i will tack on a couple bucks to the person taking my sandwich order.

[Dob Hooligan]

I read this morning that OKC has the second lowest unemployment rate in the US, which is around 2%. The free market makes it seem that any able-bodied adult can make $15-20 an hour. How can it be possible a large part of the adult population is making under $15?

[citywokchinesefood]

I read this morning that OKC has the second lowest unemployment rate in the US, which is around 2%. The free market makes it seem that any able-bodied adult can make $15-20 an hour. How can it be possible a large part of the adult population is making under $15?

1 in 12 Oklahoma adults is a felon. That can be a major barrier to getting a decent job if you are unwilling or unable to work in certain fields. That is not the entire story, but it most certainly helps exacerbate the issue.

[BoulderSooner]

lol didn't mean to start a whole thing here.

really just meant to say customer service is a thankless job, increasingly so today because everyone went insane after covid, so i tip a few bucks anytime i am presented the option. clearly you all are under no obligation to tip. it's not required! but i do think if you're able to drop $13 on a sandwich then what is another $2.50 to you?

truly i wish every employer paid their employees $22/hr or whatever ups is paying. i also agree that it should not fall to the consumer! but! that's not the world we live in so i will tack on a couple bucks to the person taking my sandwich order.

if you take an order at the counter and then someone picks up the food at the counter you are not in customer service ..

[jn1780]

Most chains are going to replace those counter service personal with AI driven POS systems in 10 - 20 years (That's a conservative number, could be a lot faster). Also, If we ever get the legality of autonomous driving sorted out - that will be the end of the delivery driver gig economy.

AI going to bring massive changes to the economy. Its going to be a painful transition period as we figure out how to better use our human strengths. People need to ask themselves "How easy is it for my job to automated?" Right now being the underpaid human is the only thing that keeps people competitive to the automation systems.

[David]

We're probably going to see ordering kiosks and similar systems get more and more used but don't imagine AI will play a big part in those except as mostly useless add-on functionality. You don't need AI to make a nice ordering interface and let the customer pay, that's just overkill.

[Pete]

We're probably going to see ordering kiosks and similar systems get more and more used but don't imagine AI will play a big part in those except as mostly useless add-on functionality. You don't need AI to make a nice ordering interface and let the customer pay, that's just overkill.

Almost every place now allows ordering through apps.

And all those apps ask for tips, too.


All of this is completely software-driven, an invention to try and shame people into spending more money for the exact same thing that never, ever warranted tips for the last 100 years.

[BoulderSooner]

Most chains are going to replace those counter service personal with AI driven POS systems in 10 - 20 years (That's a conservative number, could be a lot faster). Also, If we ever get the legality of autonomous driving sorted out - that will be the end of the delivery driver gig economy.

AI going to bring massive changes to the economy. Its going to be a painful transition period as we figure out how to better use our human strengths. People need to ask themselves "How easy is it for my job to automated?" Right now being the underpaid human is the only thing that keeps people competitive to the automation systems.

more like the next 3-5 years ... i don't think people grasp how much AI is going to change almost every business ...

the AI "order taker" will be able to do specific requests .. changes substitutions ect .. ..

[dankrutka]

Most chains are going to replace those counter service personal with AI driven POS systems in 10 - 20 years (That's a conservative number, could be a lot faster). Also, If we ever get the legality of autonomous driving sorted out - that will be the end of the delivery driver gig economy.

AI going to bring massive changes to the economy. Its going to be a painful transition period as we figure out how to better use our human strengths. People need to ask themselves "How easy is it for my job to automated?" Right now being the underpaid human is the only thing that keeps people competitive to the automation systems.

I won't go to any place where I'm not interacting with humans. We have a ramen place near us that's automated the ordering process and the place feels dystopic. The environment is dead and uninviting. Atmosphere and human interaction matter. I recognize there's a middle ground, but if things get overly automated then I think a lot of people will opt out.

But, yeah, the jobs AI mostly will replace are the ones where humans are already doing machine-like work.

[OkieBerto]

I won't go to any place where I'm not interacting with humans. We have a ramen place near us that's automated the ordering process and the place feels dystopic. The environment is dead and uninviting. Atmosphere and human interaction matter. I recognize there's a middle ground, but if things get overly automated then I think a lot of people will opt out.

But, yeah, the jobs AI mostly will replace are the ones where humans are already doing machine-like work.

I am with you on this. I love the human interactions I get when I am out at a restaurant. The whole kiosk thing is a turn off!

[jn1780]

We're probably going to see ordering kiosks and similar systems get more and more used but don't imagine AI will play a big part in those except as mostly useless add-on functionality. You don't need AI to make a nice ordering interface and let the customer pay, that's just overkill.

As the price of technology comes down it will become more standard. The value of the human is that they can sale, offer suggestions, and give the personal touch. AI will know what your previous buying patterns and try to craft something for you.

[Pete]

I am with you on this. I love the human interactions I get when I am out at a restaurant. The whole kiosk thing is a turn off!

I would rather have this sort of ordering than be prompted for a 30% tip while a person who has done nothing but push a couple of buttons stands over you.

How much human interaction are you getting from a cashier? When given the option, most people prefer self-checkout.

[dankrutka]

As the price of technology comes down it will become more standard. The value of the human is that they can sale, offer suggestions, and give the personal touch. AI will know what your previous buying patterns and try to craft something for you.

Yeah, I don't want a human replaced with some data-collecting surveillance algorithm that'll tell me what I want and sell that info to data brokers. When I go to restaurants or coffee shops, part of the fun is actually learning about the menu, asking questions, taking a chance on something new, and interacting with people. I have no interest in some AI tech that's going to "make my dining experience more personalized and efficient." I really hope people reject this future.

[TheTravellers]

Yeah, I don't want a human replaced with some data-collecting surveillance algorithm that'll tell me what I want and sell that info to data brokers. When I go to restaurants or coffee shops, part of the fun is actually learning about the menu, asking questions, taking a chance on something new, and interacting with people. I have no interest in some AI tech that's going to "make my dining experience more personalized and efficient." I really hope people reject this future.

Agree with everything you said, but not sure we'll have much choice in the matter...

[Thomas Vu]

I won't go to any place where I'm not interacting with humans. We have a ramen place near us that's automated the ordering process and the place feels dystopic. The environment is dead and uninviting. Atmosphere and human interaction matter. I recognize there's a middle ground, but if things get overly automated then I think a lot of people will opt out.

But, yeah, the jobs AI mostly will replace are the ones where humans are already doing machine-like work.

Go to japan and it's not too far off of what a ramen place is there.

[rayvaflav]

I'm going. Has anyone here had any personal experience with their meatball sandwich (The Hudson) ? Now that Bad Nonna's is gone the hunt for a good meatball sandwich is getting ramped up.

[Paseofreak]

I’ve made a pretty extensive search for meatball subs in the metro and kinda as expected, I’ve not found anywhere that will make the effort to produce a proper top flight sandwich like those made in the Northeast. To avoid the agony of unrequited cravings, I’ve learned to make my own. See below.

https://youtu.be/3Abk2WWuoao?si=lKL2XBWlKTrIfGHG

[Jeepnokc]

Old article but few of places are still around. Be following this as I like a good meatball sub. Be interesting to see how Goose's compares

https://www.405magazine.com/10-meatb...ed-to-try-now/