Oklahoma Teacher Shortage

[hoya]

People are really bad with numbers I've noticed. Sure $95 million is nice but it would be a 3% boost to our education budget. This thread wouldn't exist if all that was needed was a 3% boost in funding.

And that's not a sustainable # for colorado. As more states legalize their pot tourism industry will drop and drop and drop. It's not going to fall off a cliff but this would be the high water mark.

Ba-dum bump.

[hoya]

Maybe part of the "scorched earth" reorganization is to entirely reassess the notion of what constitutes the appropriate minimum level of education the state is expected to provide. I remember many, many years ago as a rabble-rousing editor of an HS newspaper who saw this "one size fits all" notion of education as being fundamentally flawed; not all kids are headed for a college degree, so lets provide them and those who are an education that's appropriate and heavily influenced by their own values and choices. The result - a "college-bound" or "college-prep" curriculum and scheduling on the one hand, and a general HS diploma on the other. We definitely do some of that now, I think...

I think there's a problem with that, though. Kids who go to Edmond North are going to be seen as "college-bound" while kids who go to Douglas are going to be seen as "not college-bound". So Edmond North will get more funding than they do already and it will be a self-reinforcing cycle. As long as we've got massive differences in the quality of our schools, this will be a problem.

[hoya]

Let's compare apples to apples. The lottery propaganda sold a projected $300 million revenue boost to get its agenda established, all with the help of then-gov Brad Henry. The problem is those same people *had* to know their revenue projections were bogus. It was a deceitful illusion from the word "go."

On the other hand, tax incentives for businesses are established as a legitimate means for economic growth. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. The example of the Burns Flat failure is hardly a counterexample to the general notion of such incentives. Lotteries, however, remain funded substantially by the people least able to afford it. One has to do better than "it's revenue" to justify it as sound social or fiscal policy.

I think its fairly evident you and I are on opposite sides of the coin on financing - I think the government needs to stay out and minimize revenue, and I think its apparent you encourage greater government financing. That's a point on which we'll likely just have to agree to disagree.

A lottery is just a tax on people who are bad at math.

[Jersey Boss]

Let's compare apples to apples. The lottery propaganda sold a projected $300 million revenue boost to get its agenda established, all with the help of then-gov Brad Henry. The problem is those same people *had* to know their revenue projections were bogus. It was a deceitful illusion from the word "go."

On the other hand, tax incentives for businesses are established as a legitimate means for economic growth. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. The example of the Burns Flat failure is hardly a counterexample to the general notion of such incentives. Lotteries, however, remain funded substantially by the people least able to afford it. One has to do better than "it's revenue" to justify it as sound social or fiscal policy.

I think its fairly evident you and I are on opposite sides of the coin on financing - I think the government needs to stay out and minimize revenue, and I think its apparent you encourage greater government financing. That's a point on which we'll likely just have to agree to disagree.

Yeah, I'll agree with that, but sales taxes also fall into this category. At least with the lottery you have a choice as to purchasing. The regressive nature of sales taxes impact those who can least afford them as well. While your earlier point about tax incentives are legitimate economic growers, that is true if there are requirements that show the incentives are doing what they claim. Giving away tax credits that are transferable and sold to other industries has not been shown to be a stimulator of the economy.

[bradh]

A lottery is just a tax on people who are bad at math.

freaking hilarious

[Midtowner]

Let's compare apples to apples. The lottery propaganda sold a projected $300 million revenue boost to get its agenda established, all with the help of then-gov Brad Henry. The problem is those same people *had* to know their revenue projections were bogus. It was a deceitful illusion from the word "go."

lol, a conservative telling poor people he knows how to better spend their money than they do and wants to have the governmetn force that choice. I'll bet you don't even realize how ideologically inconsistent this position is.

[jerrywall]

lol, a conservative telling poor people he knows how to better spend their money than they do and wants to have the governmetn force that choice. I'll bet you don't even realize how ideologically inconsistent this position is.

Seriously? You support preying on the poor and uneducated who need their money the most?

[Midtowner]

Seriously? You support preying on the poor and uneducated who need their money the most?

Preying on them? It's their money, they get to choose how to spend it.

[jerrywall]

Preying on them? It's their money, they get to choose how to spend it.

Because it takes advantage of the folks most likely to be too poorly educated to know better, and who can least afford it. And it does so while not providing the benefit the proponents claimed it would.

[Jersey Boss]

Because it takes advantage of the folks most likely to be too poorly educated to know better, and who can least afford it. And it does so while not providing the benefit the proponents claimed it would.

It appears that you could be referencing Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson or other TV preachers.

[jerrywall]

It appears that you could be referencing Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson or other TV preachers.

Maybe, but I see a difference with the state being one of the actors.

I don't have a problem with casinos, for example, but I don't think the state belongs in that business. And to push it as some great boon for eduction was and is flat out dishonest.

[Jchaser405]

As an African American who chose to move his family back to "the hood" to suffer and dream with those not privileged to escape to more thriving (white) communities. It sucks for your own kids to have to experience a teacher shortage first hand. There were multiple occasions in which my 2nd grader's class was combined with a 5th grade class because the primary teacher quit and no sub could be found. It sucks to try and enroll your 4th grader in the only "high performing" school in the district (graded a C) and be told your zip code bars access.
My wife told told me about this episode of This American Life and it was helpful on this topic. I am not a fan of bussing programs at all and I hope someone finds another solution for our education dilemma.
Take a listen and let me know your thoughts.
562: The Problem We All Live With

[dankrutka]

As an African American who chose to move his family back to "the hood" to suffer and dream with those not privileged to escape to more thriving (white) communities. It sucks for your own kids to have to experience a teacher shortage first hand. There were multiple occasions in which my 2nd grader's class was combined with a 5th grade class because the primary teacher quit and no sub could be found. It sucks to try and enroll your 4th grader in the only "high performing" school in the district (graded a C) and be told your zip code bars access.
My wife told told me about this episode of This American Life and it was helpful on this topic. I am not a fan of bussing programs at all and I hope someone finds another solution for our education dilemma.
Take a listen and let me know your thoughts.
562: The Problem We All Live With

Jonathan Kozol's books really show how teacher fluctuation really hurts communities with people of color and/or poverty. That's why firing bad teachers is such a smaller issue than hiring and retaining good teachers, but the former is a constant talking point and the latter is all but ignored. OKC is included in Kozol's Shame of the Nation. I just don't think most middle/upper class Americans realize that the students who often need the most stability in schools have the least. Public schools are supposed to provide all students equal opportunity, but they serve to reinforce gaps that already exist.