Oil and gas activity likely a factor in Oklahoma earthquakes.

[ylouder]

Just a matter of time before they can no longer shirk responsibility. Funny how we can stop e cigs because the dangerous haven't been studied but waste water injection, sudden 1000 fold increase in earthquakes since they started through today...that's off the table.

[Bellaboo]

Guess they should send the waste water out to western Oklahoma, where there is exstensive drilling, fracking and SWD wells galore. Just no quakes due to the lack of faults in the region...?

[OKCisOK4me]

Perhaps a better approach to this is to look at it as an unfortunate chain of events. Perhaps the cause for the recent massive spike in quakes can't be associated with just one cause. For all we know it could be a chain relating to significant drought for years, changes in water usage, removal of fossil fuels under the surface, and increased lubrication from injection wells...not in any particular order. It could also just be some major quake somewhere else rippled through the plates and just did enough to make the Wilzetta and Nemaha faults active again. Or it could be Godzilla or a new hotspot...but those two would be too "exciting" for Oklahoma.

I'm 100% happy to go figure that something else is the cause of these earthquakes instead of the current scapegoat because no one can truly tie them to anything.

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[venture]

Guess they should send the waste water out to western Oklahoma, where there is exstensive drilling, fracking and SWD wells galore. Just no quakes due to the lack of faults in the region...?

I thought these two maps were interesting when viewed together.

Most of the O&G wells tens to avoid the majority of the state's primary fault lines. Though there are extensive wells in South Central OK which has plenty of faults through the Arbuckles and some near the Meers Fault in the Wichitas. Definitely plenty along the Nemaha and Central OK fault zones though. However, it isn't practical to really test the theory in any reasonable manner. I would say increase the level of injections along the Meers Fault to see if anything can be triggered, but the size and expense to do that would be insane.

This is likely just going to be an issue to where there are multiple causes that when put together have led to an increase in fault line activity. Neither side will back down as both are very vocal and quite powerful. However, that doesn't mean either side is wrong or gets a pass. It just comes down to a case of risk assessment and adjusting as needed. We've seen states like Ohio make a move against injection wells after traditional very quiet areas started to have earthquakes shortly after operations started. As pointed out though, Oklahoma has been doing this for awhile which is why I think this is more or less a chain of events and not one single item.

[Bunty]

I'm 100% happy to go figure that something else is the cause of these earthquakes instead of the current scapegoat because no one can truly tie them to anything.

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So shutting down the well in Love County should be regarded as a wrong and foolish move, because the earthquakes there had to be a matter of coincidence? Besides that, it might have established an excuse to eventually shut down wells in Logan and Payne Counties.

[zookeeper]

I'm 100% happy to go figure that something else is the cause of these earthquakes instead of the current scapegoat because no one can truly tie them to anything.

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Scapegoat? Read the article. Yes, the fault lines and the quakes and the waste water injection are connected. There's no scapegoat. At some point you have to look at the evidence and reach a conclusion. And, yes, the evidence is there!

[PhiAlpha]

Scapegoat? Read the article. Yes, the fault lines and the quakes and the waste water injection are connected. There's no scapegoat. At some point you have to look at the evidence and reach a conclusion. And, yes, the evidence is there!

So the Colorado case brings me to the same issue that I have with the injection well theory in Oklahoma. Where are the earthquakes associated with the 300 plus disposal wells active in Colorado now and where were they with the thousands that have been drilled their since the 1920s? They have drilled more disposal wells in Colorado over the last decade with the increase in horizontal drilling and that hasn't translated to an increase in seismic activity. There was an earthquake swarm in the early 2,000s and one 2011 that was proven to be naturally occurring. There have been a few other earthquakes recently but none anywhere near drilling and injection activity. Same for north dakota where there has been a large increase in drilling/frac'ing since 2005 and nearly 500 new injection wells drilled in a state that had very few prior to the discovery of the bakken. There has been zero increase in seismic activity in North Dakota. Or in the Permian basin, one of the most heavily drilled areas in the county today and historically. There are now and have been historically a ton of disposal wells in west Texas with no major increase in seismic activity over the last decade. While geological conditions are different everywhere, there are still faults in every area where oil and gas is produced and water is injected so why is Oklahoma the only state in which this is happening on such a large scale and so frequently? I agree with the Oklahoma geological survey that we need to keep the disposal wells operational for one because they have no proof that injection, fracking, or anything else is causing earthquakes and two, there is no way to figure out why it's happening here without studying the wells they think are causing it, can't study them if they aren't active.


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[gopokes88]

Here is the endorsement for an earthquake policy. No exclusion for man made earthquakes.

[ljbab728]

Scapegoat? Read the article. Yes, the fault lines and the quakes and the waste water injection are connected. There's no scapegoat. At some point you have to look at the evidence and reach a conclusion. And, yes, the evidence is there!

I read the article. There is still no conclusive evidence even if it points in that direction in that specific situation. There is no way to prove it is connected.

[Bunty]

I read the article. There is still no conclusive evidence even if it points in that direction in that specific situation. There is no way to prove it is connected.

So go on with the injection wells as usual, since as long as the quakes stay under 4.0 in magnitude most of the time, they are easily quite tolerable?

[Plutonic Panda]

Injection well operator in Logan County earthquake zone agrees to additional monitoring | News OK

[ljbab728]

So go on with the injection wells as usual, since as long as the quakes stay under 4.0 in magnitude most of the time, they are easily quite tolerable?

Yes, until a specific link has been provided.

[zookeeper]

We don't even know why we are conscious beings and people want more proof on waste water injection causation with the quakes?
Seriously, scientists agree already, unless they are in the employ of energy companies. What do you want? Need?

We are so tied to energy for our well-being that our state is in their pocket and its population brainwashed. Remember energy from fossil fuels will be history sooner than we expect. Are we ready to live and die on dirty coal, etc. for our state's future? (Sorry Mr. AG and OG&E on your defeat in the Supreme Court.)

This discussion about quakes and injection wells is completely ridiculous. It's clear, it's scientific and it is what it is. Wake-up Oklahoma!

[ljbab728]

It may be clear to you, but it isn't proven. You are welcome to your opinion though.

[PhiAlpha]

We don't even know why we are conscious beings and people want more proof on waste water injection causation with the quakes?
Seriously, scientists agree already, unless they are in the employ of energy companies. What do you want? Need?

We are so tied to energy for our well-being that our state is in their pocket and its population brainwashed. Remember energy from fossil fuels will be history sooner than we expect. Are we ready to live and die on dirty coal, etc. for our state's future? (Sorry Mr. AG and OG&E on your defeat in the Supreme Court.)

This discussion about quakes and injection wells is completely ridiculous. It's clear, it's scientific and it is what it is. Wake-up Oklahoma!

Clear to you maybe, but you are one of the most clearly biased posters on this site against the energy industry and based on your posts in these energy threads as well as your ridiculous comments about the GE facility, you can't even begin to deny that. I admit that I am obviously biased toward the energy industry but I back that up with my own experience and education on the subject as well as information I get from others that I would consider much more experienced and knowledgable then the geologists quoted in that article.

I will say that if you enjoy the prosperity of this city and state, you had better hope with every part of your being that the industry is not causing these earthquakes. If production companies cannot dispose of produced water it will, no doubt, substantially increase operating costs in Oklahoma or at minimum in certain higher water content plays, possibly to a point of rendering them uneconomic. An increased production tax may or may not effect operations in the state but the inability to dispose of water via disposal wells certainly would. I agree that if injection wells are PROVEN to be the cause of the earthquakes in Oklahoma, which they have NOT been, then we need to figure out how to reduce the risk, but until then your (and others) unwavering attempts to make the energy industry the scapegoat for all evil is freaking ridiculous. Contrary to your apparent belief, despite being employed by energy companies; we use science to back up our statements as well, not just our will to destroy the world. We support the industry based on the FACTS as we know them and not because we are paid or told to do so.

And as to your assertion that energy from fossil fuels will be history sooner rather than later, I think that's pretty hilarious. Detractors like you (and "scientists") have been saying the same since a few years after Edwin Drake completed the first successful oil well in 1859. It has certainly lasted longer than they expected and has greatly outlasted the expectations of "scientists" in the 1970s (or pick a decade) as well as the peak oil alarmists in the 1990s/2000s and will continue to do so throughout our lifetime.


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[ylouder]

Prosperity? We just have to be willing to further deplete our surface and ground water supplies, live with daily earthquakes,subsidize the industry with our tax dollars while infrastructure and schools go under funded, and figure out what we will drink when this waste water makes its way back into our groundwater.

Sounds like a great deal for the long term.


My admitted bias is I'm on well water, in a high earthquake area and have kids who drink the water each day.

[PhiAlpha]

Double post.

[PhiAlpha]

Prosperity? We just have to be willing to further deplete our surface and ground water supplies, live with daily earthquakes,subsidize the industry with our tax dollars while infrastructure and schools go under funded, and figure out what we will drink when this waste water makes its way back into our groundwater.

Sounds like a great deal for the long term.

Your posts have and continue to be incredibly useless, filled with hyperbole, and add nothing to the discussion. You have become the edger of energy threads. I refuse to dignify anything you post with a thought out response. At least zookeeper is a generally respected poster here that, though I disagree with greatly, adds thought out points to the discussion.


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[ylouder]

Nothing I said is untrue. We use 2-5 million gallons of water per well, dispose of waste water in deep Wells, having thousands of earthquakes a year and passed giving drillers another huge tax cut while state programs go under funded.

Sorry you don't like facts.

[ylouder]

Your posts have and continue to be incredibly useless, filled with hyperbole, and add nothing to the discussion. You have become the edger of energy threads. I refuse to dignify anything you post with a thought out response. At least zookeeper is a generally respected poster here that, though I disagree with greatly, adds thought out points to the discussion.

I guess this is just hyperbole from the Journal Record since it doesnt serve your cause?

http://journalrecord.com/2014/05/28/...caved-opinion/

During the final days of the legislative session, when the Oklahoma House and Senate were being swarmed by dozens of oil and gas lobbyists, I spotted a former legislator I had not seen for several years. I asked what brought him to the Capitol.
“As the owner of a business that services oil and gas rigs, I’ve been asked up here to tell legislators what would happen if we don’t extend the tax break on oil and gas production and all the rigs leave the state,” he said.
“But they won’t leave the state,” I said.
“I know,” he responded with an embarrassed little smile. Then he went back to work.

The situation was best summed up by former Oklahoma City Mayor Kirk Humphreys. Referring to the CEO of Devon Energy, one of the companies pushing hardest to extend the tax break, he said, “Do I blame Larry Nichols for doing what he’s doing? No, it’s his job to negotiate as good a deal as he can. But it’s also Mary Fallin’s job and the Legislature’s job to represent our interests and negotiate as good a deal as we can.

What ive never been surprised about is the amount of self serving people who will stop at nothing for short term profit. Like yourself, they will do and say anything for self interest regardless of the real and long term impact it has on the state and its citizens.

[PhiAlpha]

I guess this is just hyperbole from the Journal Record since it doesnt serve your cause?

http://journalrecord.com/2014/05/28/...caved-opinion/




What ive never been surprised about is the amount of self serving people who will stop at nothing for short term profit. Like yourself, they will do and say anything for self preservation regardless of the real impact and long term impact it has on the state and its citizens.

Wrong thread, but way to counter with an article that has nothing to do with this discussion because it "serves your cause." For the record, I said that I wouldn't be opposed to a production tax increase in the thread that actually pertains to it.


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[Bunty]

Yes, until a specific link has been provided.

So the closing of the well in Love County surely had to be based on junk science?

[ylouder]

Wrong thread, but way to counter with an article that has nothing to do with this discussion because it "serves your cause."

You qouted my post and said it was hyperbole so I proved once again that it wasnt.

-How are we not using millions of gallons of ground and surface water?
Hyperbole!!!
-How is there not a dramatic increase in earthquakes?
Hyperbole!!
-How did we not give drillers another huge taxpayer handout??
Hyperbole!@@!@
-How is my family not on well water
Hyperbole!!@#@

I've said it in other threads and i'll say it again. My family has been here for over 100 years, I own fractional mineral rights and dont plan on going anywhere any time soon.

You, are a temporary out of state worker and when the boom ends your job will be long gone. So dont give us BS about -

I will say that if you enjoy the prosperity of this city and state, you had better hope with every part of your being that the industry is not causing these earthquakes.

Now that's hyperbole.

[Plutonic Panda]

You qouted my post and said it was hyperbole so I proved once again that it wasnt.

-How are we not using millions of gallons of ground and surface water?
Hyperbole!!!
-How is there not a dramatic increase in earthquakes?
Hyperbole!!
-How did we not give drillers another huge taxpayer handout??
Hyperbole!@@!@
-How is my family not on well water
Hyperbole!!@#@

I've said it in other threads and i'll say it again. My family has been here for over 100 years, I own fractional mineral rights and dont plan on going anywhere any time soon.

You, are a temporary out of state worker and when the boom ends your job will be long gone. So dont give us BS about -



Now that's hyperbole.

Your family has been here 100 years, huh? Jeeze man... what a long time. You know, the earth has only been here around 4 billion years as well.

You might be interested to know about the Nemaha fault line that runs right through OKC.



Nemaha Ridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you honestly think that earthquakes would have to gradually increase in order for it to be natural? Just blaming fracking is always the easiest thing to do. Meanwhile when you look at all the water wells drying up which have been tied to earthquakes in the past....

It is possible fracking could be tied in some way, but (a) that's pre-mature to say that and (b) these tremors are very small and really nothing to worry about...

It's always amusing to watch the anti-inudstry activist and/or global warming propagators go crazy at the smallest hint of a man-induced environment change or disaster yet stray from the facts such as the planet actually cooling down long-term from what it used to be.

[ylouder]

Panda I have a long-term vested interest In keeping natural gas(which are the wells we have) in production but also finding ways to protect our water sources. Without clean and drinkable water any place is uninhabitable for people & livestock.

Doesn't matter how big the royalty check is.