Ed Shadid running for Mayor 2014!

[catch22]

That's false...the resolution reads:

"A new rail-based STREETCAR SYSTEM..."

In case this isn't clear enough for Ed and Steve:

[Steve]

Yep. You're right. I read the Oklahoman article from archives, linked to the resolution (after clearly reading the story - not mine - and not reading the resolution carefully enough)...
My bad. Irony. So right now, unless five council members say otherwise, it does need to be a rail based streetcar system. I am willing to acknowledge when I'm wrong, and in this case, damn right, it says that.
But again, it's not what voters voted for - it's a resolution that's binding as long as a majority of the city council sticks to it.
As an aside, I don't think anyone disputes that Shadid has been one of the most vocal dissident voices on the council in a very long time. And it's true - there are some others on the council who clearly don't like him.

[Rover]

To be mayor you have to have the respect and support of the people and of people who can ACTUALLY EFFECT CHANGE. It is doubtful that Shadid can muster more than vocal support from the more disenfranchised. He is great at being against things, but ineffective on bringing about actual change and growth. It's like being a consultant...very easy to see the problems, but very difficult to actually implement the changes in a positive way.

[catch22]

Yep. You're right. I read the Oklahoman article from archives, linked to the resolution (after clearly reading the story - not mine - and not reading the resolution carefully enough)...
My bad. Irony. So right now, unless five council members say otherwise, it does need to be a rail based streetcar system. I am willing to acknowledge when I'm wrong, and in this case, damn right, it says that.
But again, it's not what voters voted for - it's a resolution that's binding as long as a majority of the city council sticks to it.
As an aside, I don't think anyone disputes that Shadid has been one of the most vocal dissident voices on the council in a very long time. And it's true - there are some others on the council who clearly don't like him.

We shouldn't even be having this conversation though. Sure, you can lawyer your way around the wording and find a way to spend the money on anything. But the city DOES NOT want to kill MAPS. They want a Phase II for the convention center, perhaps more transit expansion (streetcar, buses, etc.), more sidewalks and trails, who knows what else. The city will not change this program for Shadid's sake. This shouldn't even be a conversation because we know it won't happen. So it's frustrating that this is even being brought up in such a huge way.

As an unrelated citizen, we were made aware of the process and I felt it was very transparent, especially contrasting to the convention center committee. This process did not start up overnight last month. There has been a lot of public involvement and input. The opportunity to discuss and feed input on the recommended route was there from the beginning. It may not have been huge grand events, but the meetings have definitely not been behind closed doors and curtains. It's frustrating to be this far along into the process to even talk about going back to square one. I can understand the frustration of the subcommittee members. It might be similar to being halfway into a heavy article, you've been doing your diligent research and interviews, carefully piecing together a story and being very close to finalizing it, and a new boss came in and said to start over because your research probably wasn't done correctly. I really don't think you'll find the smoking gun you are looking for because I don't think one exists, but you are just seeing the frustration this recent Shadidism is generating.

[Steve]

QUOTE: "It might be similar to being halfway into a heavy article, you've been doing your diligent research and interviews, carefully piecing together a story and being very close to finalizing it, and a new boss came in and said to start over because your research probably wasn't done correctly."

Um, this happens quite a bit in my business....

[catch22]

I'm sure it's frustrating and insulting for someone who has had no involvement in that process, come in and tell you why you are wrong?

[Steve]

I don't mind if someone challenges and questions the work I've done to ensure it's the best it can be

[catch22]

I think there's a difference between challenging it with an open mind, and challenging it with a pre-conceived argument. Shadid is arguing because in his mind, what he knows is better.

Had this come from anyone else, I don't think there'd be as much reaction. He's arguing not because he thinks the route is wrong, it's because he has to prove that he knows better than everyone else.

[betts]

The silly thing about this whole argument is that the only thing pro-streetcar people are supporting is our desire to have something built we believed we were voting for. If someone started a campaign to use the park money for something other than a park, I would vociferously oppose that as well. I even support the right of those who voted for the convention center to have their convention center, despite the fact that I have no interest in it. Tell me you're moving funds from the CC to build an amphitheater or football stadium and I would tell you it's not fair to the voters to do so. Every subcommittee member was a voter first and it's not always fair to assume which hat I'm wearing. Other than the fact that I want a streetcar and will fight vocally to have what I thought I was voting for, I feel pretty flexible. Even our suggested route is laden with compromise, and the change I didn't support initially was examined at the request of Coucilman Shadid. But regardless, at this point the route is in the hands of engineers and consultants, has had an initial fresh eyes examination, with more planned, as well as public meetings. I'm not feeling very intransigent about anything but the fact that it needs to be built, it needs to be legible and it needs to be something our citizens will be proud of, to be honest.

[soonerguru]

As the one who wrote the book on MAPS, covered it first hand:
- The arena did not go over budget.
- The canal was NOT shortened - it was actually built slightly longer than first presented during the campaign. And there was never a promise to completely link the canal to the river - that was always impossible due to the steep drop in elevation.
- The library materials did end up in litigation.
- Schedules did fall behind.
- The budget did go over and the tax was extended for six months.
- The structure of the first MAPS ballot, provisions for funding of operations and maintenance, were far more detailed than for MAPS 3, which basically consisted of voters approving a blank check of $777 million to be spent on "capital improvements" with just a resolution (which can be scrapped at any time with five votes) giving a summary of which projects were to be funded.

Fair enough on the first points. This was from memory. I think the issue with the canal was people thought it was going to link to the river -- at least that's how it was initially billed.

Regarding the arena, I thought the budget for that was the reason for the "Finish MAPS Right" campaign. If not that, what was it that required more money? The ballpark?

I'm not attacking you, Steve, I'm questioning why, in your very public forum, you diminish the angst about Shadid as streetcar advocates not enjoying having their beliefs and assumptions questioned, when there is actually genuine concern that Shadid wishes to derail the streetcar project to fund other initiatives, such as the Adventure Line and / or additional buses.

[OkieDave]

Dr. Ed Shadid is holding a get together at the Belle Isle Library, Sunday April 7th at 4pm. Those interested in a good, open and honest discussion should attend.

This is an opportunity to ask Dr. Shadid about his thoughts and beliefs as well as an chance to discuss potential solutions to topics including but not limited to those discussed in this thread.

[soonerguru]

The problem here is that nobody voted for anything but $777 million that can be used in whatever way five members of the city council see fit. You've already seen $30 million diverted from the convention center "budget" listed on the resolution (again, something not listed on the MAPS 3 ballot and can be overturned by 5 votes). You've seen the sidewalk and trails project cut back significantly. You've seen some serious doubts emerge with the wellness centers. And now you're seeing the bubbling up of questions about the streetcar system.
As an aside, how many of you have read the resolution? Read it here: http://www.okc.gov/maps3/resolution.pdf

This is a very technical argument. Some would say, borne of sophistry. You're being coy and while you are technically correct, you are dismissing the political fallout from the voters who voted in good faith for the slate of projects advertised. For some reason, you refuse to acknowledge this relationship between OKC and its citizens. Bizarre. You are very stubborn. Also, you like to act like you're smarter than everyone else, drop hints about things dripping with innuendo, and lord it over everyone that you have inside information. Tiring.

[soonerguru]

Dr. Ed Shadid is holding a get together at the Belle Isle Library, Sunday April 7th at 4pm. Those interested in a good, open and honest discussion should attend.

This is an opportunity to ask Dr. Shadid about his thoughts and beliefs as well as an chance to discuss potential solutions to topics including but not limited to those discussed in this thread.

Ed Shadid is a public official. Why should we have to go to a library to find out his position on the streetcar? Truly bizarre. He cannot even publicly state what it is? Do you know what it is? Perplexing.

[soonerguru]

In case this isn't clear enough for Ed and Steve:

Can I make this my avatar? It's shocking that Steve did not know this.

[soonerguru]

I don't mind if someone challenges and questions the work I've done to ensure it's the best it can be

Is that right? Then why do you say you are being attacked?

[Steve]

Sooner, you crack me up....

[soonerguru]

Sooner, you crack me up....

I admit, my tongue was a bit in cheek.

[Just the facts]

Welcome to being a 'Rock Star' Steve.

[soonerguru]

For some reason, Steve has implied some sort of impropriety on behalf of the MAPS Streetcar Subcommittee for a long time. He has, to date, provided no substantive reporting suggesting that the committee has been anything but open and transparent. Similarly, Ed Shadid has seemingly morphed his position toward suggesting some sort of impropriety on behalf of the Streetcar subcommittee. He dresses this up under the term "process," a word that has become his euphemism for "I wasn't a part of it therefore it was probably corrupt."

For Steve to act like, "Who, me? What are you talking about?" while he continues to drop these little nuggets is a bit disingenuous. He turns into a prosecutor when he says he "gets suspicious" when MAPS board members don't take criticism well.

You know, I have observed human behavior for a long time, and people generally don't take well to being second-guessed and implicated under a cloud of a reporter's unexplained "suspicion." Neither would Steve, for that matter.

Hey, Steve, I have some information I'm following about you. I've heard it from several sources. I'm not sure it's true, but I'm following up on some leads. May be big. I'll keep you posted. Tune into my blog next week for some possible details.

[Steve]

For some reason, Steve has implied some sort of impropriety on behalf of the MAPS Streetcar Subcommittee for a long time. He has, to date, provided no substantive reporting suggesting that the committee has been anything but open and transparent. Similarly, Ed Shadid has seemingly morphed his position toward some sort of impropriety.

For Steve to act like, "Who, me? What are you talking about?" while he continues to drop these little suggestions is a bit disingenuous. He turns into a prosecutor when he says he "gets suspicious" when MAPS board members don't take criticism well.

You know, I have observed human behavior for a long time, and people generally don't take well to being second-guessed. Neither does Steve, for that matter.

I've implied no sort of impropriety on behalf of the MAPS streetcar subcommittee. I've suggested that attacks are launched by people in this thread (not the committee) when their beliefs or assumptions are challenged. You've pretty much done that... again, I love the part about you denying you've attacked me in any way. Seriously - I laughed when I read it. God bless ya Sooner - that's quite a perspective you have.

[soonerguru]

I've implied no sort of impropriety on behalf of the MAPS streetcar subcommittee. I've suggested that attacks are launched by people in this thread (not the committee) when their beliefs or assumptions are challenged. You've pretty much done that... again, I love the part about you denying you've attacked me in any way. Seriously - I laughed when I read it. God bless ya Sooner - that's quite a perspective you have.

Please provide an example of the attack. I have asked why you are diminishing the concerns of the subcommittee about Shadid as people merely not wanting their assumptions questioned. I have been specific. And yet you continue to ignore it. Why will you not address this? Why, in print, are you suggesting that the streetcar people are a bunch of puny individuals who cannot take criticism? Why are you not letting the public know what Shadid has discussed doing with the streetcar funding? Is that not news?

[Urban Pioneer]

Ed Shadid is a public official. Why should we have to go to a library to find out his position on the streetcar? Truly bizarre. He cannot even publicly state what it is? Do you know what it is? Perplexing.

It's their response to this thread running out of their control.

As someone on the committee, I don't even know the Councillor's current position on streetcar matters. It changes like a weathervane in the Oklahoma wind.

Why do I need to go to Belle Isle Library to find this out?

Steve do you know the Councillor's current position?

[Steve]

It's their response to this thread running out of their control.

As someone on the committee, I don't even know the Councillor's current position on streetcar matters. It changes like a weathervane in the Oklahoma wind.

Why do I need to go to Belle Isle Library to find this out?

Steve do you know the Councillor's current position?

Not really.... he seems to be favoring re-examining how much is spent on streetcars vs. bus transit, and whether streetcar is the best system. Hoping William Crum covers this soon.
Sooner, I think your posts speak for themselves.

[Steve]

I also don't think we've heard everything there is to hear about the costs of a convention center hotel, garage, prospects for funding of the park or wellness centers. But you folks don't seem to have a problem with questioning of those issues, right?

[catch22]

Not really.... he seems to be favoring re-examining how much is spent on streetcars vs. bus transit, and whether streetcar is the best system. Hoping William Crum covers this soon.
Sooner, I think your posts speak for themselves.

Again, we should not even be having this discussion: the resolution clearly states rail based streetcar.

If he wants to start a petition on getting improved bus transit, I'm 100% behind him -- but not at the expense of the streetcar which is clearly stated, cut and dry.