American Fidelity

[OklahomaNick]

Will be interesting to see how the dominos fall.
American Fidelity office space is CLASS A REALLY nice!
I think that space will get filled by someone.
Its very attractive

[Rover]

And it is his editor's and his publisher's job to decide what gets printed. Steve only has so much control in the matter. Cut him some slack.

Exactly. It is reporters from other news groups that actually failed. I don't see any criticism here of other news organizations in this city like I see for Steve and OPUBCO. What about News4, 5 or 9?

[Pete]

Steve only gets criticized because he puts himself out there.

The guy works his arse off... Averages about a story a day, keeps his blog very active, contributes here, has written multiple books (another about to be released), is a founder and very active participant in Historyok and RetroMetroOKC, etc., etc.

[icecold]

For instance, I've heard that DOK is looking to go totally digital in less than five years.

Interesting you say that, since today it was announced that the New Orleans Times-Picayune is cutting back to only 3 publications a week starting this fall.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...ish-only-three

[Snowman]

For instance, I've heard that DOK is looking to go totally digital in less than five years.

Interesting you say that, since today it was announced that the New Orleans Times-Picayune is cutting back to only 3 publications a week starting this fall.

There was some analysis done and it would be cheaper for several of the major newspapers to buy every one of their readers a kindle and switch over to totally digital than continue on with paper, within one year they would have more than made up the cost, the main issue is ad revenue for digital is still not equal to traditional news ad revenue.

[Spartan]

Steve Id like an apology for basically calling my sweet Aunt who is a higher up at AF a liar a few months ago when I said that she said there was no way AF was moving downtown

Why did your aunt say that?

Nonetheless, if AF was so opposed to downtown all along, perhaps we need a new name for the new downtown elementary school. It should be named after someone whose company isn't anti-downtown.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Will be interesting to see how the dominos fall.
American Fidelity office space is CLASS A REALLY nice!
I think that space will get filled by someone.
Its very attractive

If I had to guess, I would say those towers stand a good chance of getting painted dark gray.

[Spartan]

Besides, is that really Class A space? I thought it was Class B..

[soonerguru]

Why did your aunt say that?

Nonetheless, if AF was so opposed to downtown all along, perhaps we need a new name for the new downtown elementary school. It should be named after someone whose company isn't anti-downtown.

No s--t. Why name it for that guy? I get so sick of this good old boy backslapping BS in OKC.

[Pete]

AF WAS looking downtown!

This OPUBCO deal kind of came out of nowhere and they felt they had to jump on it.


I'm hearing they paid around $70M for over 800,000 sf of space plus 150 prime acres. That's a very good deal, and remember they have a bunch of acreage just south of this property as well.

I'm sure they felt this was the best business decision for them and it's hard to argue against it. They can grow as much as they want to up there and still have plenty of room to spin off some property or develop it for lease.

[catcherinthewry]

Interesting you say that, since today it was announced that the New Orleans Times-Picayune is cutting back to only 3 publications a week starting this fall.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...ish-only-three

That is very sad news. It seems inevitable, but when the death of the printed paper comes I will be very sad.

[Larry OKC]

The article I saw said that they were making the move even though the New Orleans paper is still profitable

On another note, I am not sure I understand the apparent hostility towards Af and wanting to remove its founders name from the new downtown school. Is their current location within the bounds of the Central Business Core? While they were supposedly considering moving downtown at least they are remaining in OKC and not going to Edmond or some other place, right???

The downtown charter elementary school will be named in honor of John W. Rex, a longtime civic leader who was known for his advocacy for children. Rex, shown at right, was president of American Fidelity Assurance Co.
He was a key player in such initiatives as Success by Six and Smart Start of Central Oklahoma. He was involved with the Oklahoma City Public Schools Foundation and the Governor's Task Force for Child Development, among many others. Rex died in 2006 at the age of 72.

Read more: http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-...#ixzz1wGbcnNN4

[Spartan]

They are taking over 1,000 workers out of the city core and leaving three large buildings vacant, which really stinks. Might as well be Edmond, there aren't really any benefits from being on one side of Memorial Road over the other. Very clearly almost all of the workers will live in Edmond either way, unless some of them already live downtown.

[kevinpate]

That is very sad news. It seems inevitable, but when the death of the printed paper comes I will be very sad.

I used to think I might fee that way. We currently have the DOK delivered on a wed/wkend package as the lovely enjoys the circulars and coupons and other such inserts. I canna recall the last time I even touched it, as the package includes the online version.

[Just the facts]

I would actually would prefer they move to downtown Edmond than out in no-mans land. At least in downtown Edmond thier employees could be customers for downtown Edmond businesses and be connected back to downtown OKC by rail at some point in the future.

[Larry OKC]

Wow

[Spartan]

I would actually would prefer they move to downtown Edmond than out in no-mans land. At least in downtown Edmond thier employees could be customers for downtown Edmond businesses and be connected back to downtown OKC by rail at some point in the future.

I agree with this actually, let me explain what I think Kerry is getting at in a way that takes the sting out, and sounds like contrite. The point is that it would be nice to see an injection of 1,000 new workers in areas that create positive synergy for QoL. OKC does not collect an income tax, so at some point the further north you go, it makes no difference. OKC's civic goals are retail tax development, center city development, and quality of life enhancement. This move is 100% negative for the latter two, and pretty negative as far as the first goal is concerned - the only reason I wouldn't consider that a complete loss is because there is some retail that exists along 63rd and Memorial that does not exist along Broadway in Edmond, so there's a chance those retail areas could benefit. I do not believe the city is interested in developing a retail hub around Britton and Broadway.

Then again, this is based on Edmond v. North OKC. Not OKC metro v. some other metro. Obviously it's good that they're not leaving the metro area altogether, but was that ever on the table? Doubtful. Similar to Continental, I don't believe that Denver or Houston, while threatened, were ever seriously considered. The key to being competitive with other metros is to be able to ascertain when you're really in competition with another metro and when you're not. Incentives, a very finite resource in the economic development world, should not be squandered when you're not really in competition (a la Continental) and I also don't feel bad at all in lamenting this move when it really does seem to have been the worst legitimate option as far as OKC is concerned.

I would even argue that OKC has a vested interest in Edmond and Norman's QoL enhancement. What is good for the metro, is good for its individual communities. Unfortunately the suburbs have a very different, less sustainable, less successful take on economic development (they do not bear the responsibility of being the major city for the region) and don't often pursue strategies to develop their QoL in a way that actually benefits the entire metro region. If AF relocated to one of the suburban downtowns, alright stinks for Uptown and Classen, but it benefits another area of the metro that can be used to promote QoL in Central Oklahoma, so on balance, if that makes sense, OKC isn't hurt as much except in the retail tax department.

While I would still argue with someone from out of town that we are a very well-ran and successful city, this move does bother me a lot, and I do blame city officials for not stepping in and keeping a major company, a Fortune top-rated workplace, in the center city. There is no way to argue that this move is counter-productive, to say the least, to our civic goals. Unfortunately the city has no control over what AF does, all it can do is dangle incentives and work through the good ole boy network to affect some good, and it would probably take a major incentive from the city to counter the amazingly good deal that OPUBCO offered up. I think this is probably going to go down as the worst of the fallout over the sale of the Oklahoman to Anschutz, who obviously has no community ties. I don't think that the former family ownership would have done this to OKC, and obviously they didn't as this move only came about in year 1 of Anschutz, and boy did he really stick it to us where it hurt. Good for his bottom line though.

[Pete]

For all the anti-Edmond sentiment, at least about 98% of the retail, restaurant and office development on the north side is happening in the city limits of OKC.

That makes a big difference for property and sales taxes.

Edmond has some retail and restaurants, but very little else.

[Just the facts]

I agree with this actually, let me explain what I think Kerry is getting at in a way that takes the sting out, and sounds like contrite. The point is that it would be nice to see an injection of 1,000 new workers in areas that create positive synergy for QoL. OKC does not collect an income tax, so at some point the further north you go, it makes no difference. OKC's civic goals are retail tax development, center city development, and quality of life enhancement. This move is 100% negative for the latter two, and pretty negative as far as the first goal is concerned - the only reason I wouldn't consider that a complete loss is because there is some retail that exists along 63rd and Memorial that does not exist along Broadway in Edmond, so there's a chance those retail areas could benefit. I do not believe the city is interested in developing a retail hub around Britton and Broadway.

That is pretty close to what I was getting at Spartan. I am for creating pedestrian oriented traditional neighborhood development everywhere it is possible. Than is much easier to do in downtown Edmond than it is on Britton Road. A thousand people would go a long ways towards establishing a serious downtown presence in Edmond that would attract new downtown merchants and help the ones already there, but alas, you can only help those who help themselves because the City of Edmond is building their new convention center and convention center hotel out at I-35 and Covell Road. Which brings us to JTF's First Law of Development - a city in suburban sprawl motion tends to stay in suburban sprawl motion.

[Spartan]

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with Edmond. You guys know I kvetch a lot about OKC City Hall, but at least I would defend OKC to outsiders as a very well-ran city, and I only kvetch in the first place because I assume people around here actually care to find the best solutions. I have no idea what Edmond is smoking.

Building on what Pete mentioned, Edmond is a very anti-development city. They make development extremely difficult and unattractive and they only seem to want bad development and they're gung ho to squander opportunities like the convention on the freeway halfway between Memorial Rd and Guthrie. Unbelievably poor city management, but I suppose that's the Edmond way. I don't even know what could possibly be strategic from a sheer growth perspective, because in that dept all the 'burbs are getting their arse handed to them by Moore lately.

[Bellaboo]

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with Edmond. You guys know I kvetch a lot about OKC City Hall, but at least I would defend OKC to outsiders as a very well-ran city, and I only kvetch in the first place because I assume people around here actually care to find the best solutions. I have no idea what Edmond is smoking.

Building on what Pete mentioned, Edmond is a very anti-development city. They make development extremely difficult and unattractive and they only seem to want bad development and they're gung ho to squander opportunities like the convention on the freeway halfway between Memorial Rd and Guthrie. Unbelievably poor city management, but I suppose that's the Edmond way. I don't even know what could possibly be strategic from a sheer growth perspective, because in that dept all the 'burbs are getting their arse handed to them by Moore lately.

In yesteryear Edmond, a personal friend of mine who was and still is a developer, was building a shopping center in Edmond back in the 80's. This guy is from a local somewhat powerful family, which owns several banks and so forth. He told me that when they were three fourths finished, he was approached by city officials wanting a $10,000.00 kick back to a few Edmond politicos or they would shut his development down. This led to him getting his family involved with a local judge, whom his father was good friends with. He was able to complete and sell his development, and he told me that he'd never touch Edmond again.

[Larry OKC]

...I don't think that the former family ownership would have done this to OKC, and obviously they didn't as this move only came about in year 1 of Anschutz, and boy did he really stick it to us where it hurt. Good for his bottom line though.

Spartan, I appreciate the time you took to reply and can see where you & JTF are coming from a little better. I do have a question about the part I quoted, didn't the Gaylord family run/owned OPUBCO, do exactly the same thing when they relocated from the downtown area to the current location in question???

[Larry OKC]

OK, now you guys have me confused again...why is it bad for OKC to place the anti-development/dead zone etc Convention Center DT (some suggested it be put in an out of the way location, but Edmond is making a mistake by putting theirs away from the DT with easy access from the interstates???

[Just the facts]

Spartan, I appreciate the time you took to reply and can see where you & JTF are coming from a little better. I do have a question about the part I quoted, didn't the Gaylord family run/owned OPUBCO, do exactly the same thing when they relocated form the downtown area to the current location in question???

Yes they did. OPUBCO moving out of downtown was a bad move for downtown OKC.

[stlokc]

Spartan - Excellent post and right on target.