24th Annual Gay Pride Events and Parade

[MikeOKC]

lake hefner breeze kind of sounds like a gay name. You should definitely come out to the parade. Lol.
A lot of old people do not support gay rights. Young people do. If you haven't noticed you are literally a dying breed. Gay rights are on their way and comments like yours will be viewed in the same light as racists in the 60s. The future is bright...

Actually, we're all a dying breed, literally. Some just die sooner than others.

[jmarkross]

Actually, we're all a dying breed, literally. Some just die sooner than others.

I find the mirror can be quite useful in this type of predicting...

[Bunty]

Was flipping thru the channels last night and came across a documentary on PBS' American Experience called "Stonewall Uprising". Very interesting. I didn't know the roots of the gay civil rights movement. Also didn't know that the first ever gay pride parade was actually a civil rights march that came from this incident in NYC. Basically every gay pride parade since commemorates Stonewall and is why they're typically held in late June.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexpe...lms/stonewall/

I forgot the name of it but there's an interesting documentary about what the gays in San Francisco had to go through to be treated equally. In the early days San Fransciso was not all that gay friendly or accepting.

[Bunty]

No one should be proud of being gay and they should not have a parade for it.

It is shameful, immoral behavior.

This is not a family event.

Then if gays offend you so severely because their sex acts are so gross and repulsive, not to mention shameful and immoral, don't go to the gay parade.

[Thunder]

No one should be proud of being gay and they should not have a parade for it.

It is shameful, immoral behavior.

This is not a family event.

Wow, that is rude. Well, since you love Lake Hefner so much, just FYI about the bench next to the lighthouse. Think about it... :-)

[Doug Loudenback]

No one should be proud of being gay and they should not have a parade for it.
It is shameful, immoral behavior.
This is not a family event.

Lake Hefner Breeze, it is not so much that the LGBT's are "proud" as such for being what they sexually are, it is more that they are proud for WHOEVER it is that they are, or something like that. I understand where you are coming from and I'm not going to ridicule you for your beliefs and/or perceptions, and you may never change them. But maybe you will. I would suppose that thoughtful consideration, without rejecting the LGBT positions out of hand, would be seen by the group as a welcome thing, even if you come not to change your mind and/or beliefs. It is not an easy issue for many straight people. But, since you have so many fellow citizens would like to embrace you and you them, it might be worth considering ... just to think and consider. Some of those people may be your friends already, but you might not know what they have not made public.

I'm supposing that you are a Christian but if not you almost certainly accept the "Golden Rule" which derives from Christian teachings, and that would be something like this: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

[Dustin]

Wow, that is rude. Well, since you love Lake Hefner so much, just FYI about the bench next to the lighthouse. Think about it... :-)

[dankrutka]

Lake Hefner Breeze, it is not so much that the LGBT's are "proud" as such for being what they sexually are, it is more that they are proud for WHOEVER it is that they are, or something like that. I understand where you are coming from and I'm not going to ridicule you for your beliefs and/or perceptions, and you may never change them. But maybe you will. I would suppose that thoughtful consideration, without rejecting the LGBT positions out of hand, would be seen by the group as a welcome thing, even if you come not to change your mind and/or beliefs. It is not an easy issue for many straight people. But, since you have so many fellow citizens would like to embrace you and you them, it might be worth considering ... just to think and consider. Some of those people may be your friends already, but you might not know what they have not made public.

I'm supposing that you are a Christian but if not you almost certainly accept the "Golden Rule" which derives from Christian teachings, and that would be something like this: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

You are quite the diplomat. It's easy to disregard someone that is ignorant and hateful. It is much harder to reach out to them. Kudos. You did better than I did.

[PennyQuilts]

Actually, we're all a dying breed, literally. Some just die sooner than others.

At least the breeders reproduce.

Hahaha, Just kidding, it was just too easy. When I was a guardian ad litem, some of the best parents I dealt with were lesbian couples.

[Double Edge]

I know a guy who was the sperm donor for a lesbian couple who wanted to reproduce.

[PennyQuilts]

I know a guy who was the sperm donor for a lesbian couple who wanted to reproduce.

That is how both these couples that I worked with also had kids.

Unfortunately, when one couple broke up, the "mother" (who was also the bio mom) wanted full custody but the bio dad sided with the "father" lesbian and it started getting very ugly because the contract between the three of them wasn't worth the paper it was written on. It was really, really ugly for awhile. The "mother" had taken up with someone else and the "father" didn't want their child exposed to the new love interest - but she lacked legal rights even though they had a kinda sorta agreement between them. Plus, she was hurt, especially when the "Mother" threw up in her face that she (the mother) was the "real" parent and that the "father" had no rights that she (the mother) wasn't willing to allow.

Sigh. Not one time did anyone suggest the "father" hadn't been a good parent and a good spouse. And yet. People are idiots.

It probably would have been better if the "mother" had just come clean about the situation but she just didn't want to be the bad guy and because she'd been doing some boneheaded things the way cheating spouses tend to do. So she lied and got caught and with the third party bio dad still in the situation, coupled with the "father" not having legal rights to the child, the whole dynamic was wretched.

To their credit, they worked very hard to keep the child out of it. She was eight and aware of what was going on but they were doing all the could to be civil and keep things tamped down to the extent they could. Just when it started to go dreadfully south and the bio dad was literally heading down to the courthouse file papers (he lived in another state), the parents set their differences aside for the child's sake, the "mother" came sort of clean on the cheating and lying, and the "father," (who in my opinion was a saint), agreed to joint custody and a few other points intended to put the little girl, first. The bio dad's custody matter was dropped and while I don't know how it will end up going over time, it was my experience that things do tend to get better once it isn't so raw if the parents are willing to be grownups. The parents had to draft a new agreement between them (again, it probably isn't binding) but the "father" was willing to trust the "mother" to do the right thing. Of course, since she had no legal rights to the little girl, the "mother" pretty much had her over a barrel. Kudos to the "mother" for coming to her senses and realizing that the little girl had been raised by both of them.

[venture]

You are quite the diplomat. It's easy to disregard someone that is ignorant and hateful. It is much harder to reach out to them. Kudos. You did better than I did.

Doug is a huge asset to the OKC community and to this forum. Definitely agree with your point. It is very easy to just put these trolls on ignore and move on, but it is definitely even more trying to attempt to reach out and start an open dialog.

[bandnerd]

No one should be proud of being gay and they should not have a parade for it.

It is shameful, immoral behavior.

This is not a family event.

So is being a judgmental bigot.

Bring on the parade!

[Barry Luxton]

So is being a judgmental bigot.

Bring on the parade!

[BBatesokc]

Don't know why, but this thread got me to thinking about this great number......



Maybe we can change the words to "Gay Parades Are Not Just For Gays Anymore!"

[PennyQuilts]

Loved the YouTube! Ahem - but the flashing of the nuns' legs was a bit much, don't you think? <g>

[Midtowner]

Here we have the good old-fashioned debate as to whether we should be able to censor public speech which some people find offensive. The Supreme Court has answered this question. If the Westboro folks are able to do what they do, then the LGBT community can do whatever the hell it wants to (within the bounds of the law) during this parade, and the Oklahoma Upright Citizens Brigade can't do a thing about it. So legally, we've pretty well established that this conduct can't be stopped, and that's a fact as much as 2+2 = 4.

So the next question is should it be cancelled? Should we be offended that these folks are able to do things many think to be indecent? It comes down to opinion.

A lot of these members of the Oklahoma Upright Citizens Brigade claim to be conservative. Some claim that their right to swing their fist ends at my nose. They want small government and freedom. How does a demand to eliminate offensive conduct of people we disagree with square with these notions of freedom? It doesn't at all.

My personal opinion? Gay folks have to hear folks like kilgore and lake Hefner condemn them for things which don't affect people like kilgore and Hefner. They have to put up with discrimination in the workplace and elsewhere as well. Many have to keep very important parts of their lives totally segregated from other parts, leading effectively a double life. And at least once a year, they get to be in your face about their lifestyle, because lemme tell ya, Bible beating Sally Kern types are in their face the other 364 days a year.

[Barry Luxton]

My personal opinion? Gay folks have to hear folks like kilgore and lake Hefner condemn them for things which don't affect people like kilgore and Hefner.

Might wanna double-check your reading comprehension, dude. KilgoreTrout was coming down on lake hefner breeze.

[dankrutka]

I'm definitely a huge supporter of gay rights. Not sure how that got confused.

[bandnerd]

I think Mid just got wrapped up in his own argument there.

[Doug Loudenback]

Thank you, KilgoreTrout and Venture79, for your kind remarks. Everyone has to walk in their own path and garner their own accumulation of experiences and figure out what they all add up to, and that's not an easy thing to do. It wasn't for me, anyway.

Unless I'm unique, most straight guys will have had at least one or several gay stories to tell, and I'm in the several category, beginning during high school when attending (but only as an observer) the National Forensic League debate tournament in San Diego in early summer 1960. While listening to the Floyd Patterson/Ingemar Johansson heavyweight heavyweight champion rematch radio broadcast in the hotel lobby, the night hotel manager walked over to me and invited me to his room ... he said nothing specific but I got the unmistakeable drift and I declined. A decade later, in 1970 during my last month of active duty in the US Army, a co-worker in whose apartment I was staying ... he was from Enid, Ok ... hit on me while I was staying in his apartment while I eagerly anticipated ending active duty and coming home to Oklahoma City at the end of my 2-year active duty tour. His overture was unexpected and unwelcome and met with my firm and angry rebuff. Shortly after that, in 1970 or 1971, I represented a wife in a divorce case here in Oklahoma City ... her husband had just come out of the closet ... and I remember the awkwardness that I felt when speaking with him ... he had no lawyer. A decade or so later, in 1981, while experiencing my own divorce, I learned that I had more gay friends than I knew, two or three in particular, who helped me through that very difficult time. And, today, several of my good friends are openly gay.

Speaking to the straight audience, I guess that the bottom lines are these: Do I fear them? No. Do I want to be with them sexually? No. Do I like them as people and regard them as friends? Yes.

I've skipped over several other illustrations. I'm not exactly sure what I'm trying to say other than to relate a few experiences that they are personal to me and perhaps encourage readers to do the same with their eyes wide open ... you readers will have had your own experiences.

Perhaps what I'm trying to say is that it's really not easy for a straight guy to figure out a gay comfort zone, and that it does take time. A straight guy doesn't want to be hit on, but, at the same time, a straight guy can have lots of gay friends who would not be inclined to do so and who just want to be friends, associates, clients, whatever. As well, a straight guy can come to learn that a family member is not heterosexual. It's good to have a handle on one's comfort zone before learning the latter.

In the end, all I'm really saying to everyone is .. think, consider ... and do the right thing.

[jmarkross]

Here we have the good old-fashioned debate as to whether we should be able to censor public speech which some people find offensive. The Supreme Court has answered this question. If the Westboro folks are able to do what they do, then the LGBT community can do whatever the hell it wants to (within the bounds of the law) during this parade, and the Oklahoma Upright Citizens Brigade can't do a thing about it. So legally, we've pretty well established that this conduct can't be stopped, and that's a fact as much as 2+2 = 4.

So the next question is should it be cancelled? Should we be offended that these folks are able to do things many think to be indecent? It comes down to opinion.

A lot of these members of the Oklahoma Upright Citizens Brigade claim to be conservative. Some claim that their right to swing their fist ends at my nose. They want small government and freedom. How does a demand to eliminate offensive conduct of people we disagree with square with these notions of freedom? It doesn't at all.

My personal opinion? Gay folks have to hear folks like kilgore and lake Hefner condemn them for things which don't affect people like kilgore and Hefner. They have to put up with discrimination in the workplace and elsewhere as well. Many have to keep very important parts of their lives totally segregated from other parts, leading effectively a double life. And at least once a year, they get to be in your face about their lifestyle, because lemme tell ya, Bible beating Sally Kern types are in their face the other 364 days a year.

Having lived and managed people in San Francisco, I have some familiarity with these folks.

In a nutshell...their acceptance will be commensurate locally--wherever--with how much they try to rub their lifestyle choices into other's faces whom they KNOW will be offended. A Parade can be something to be a silly drag queen exposition...or something more logical. The problem gay people face mostly is public behavior they do to outrage others. You can SAY that is not so...I know better. Been there...seen it all.

Seen the queens roar into Roman Catholic churches on Sunday throwing pictures of naked men into the air, screaming. Is that who ANYONE approves or or can tolerate? Their problems are often of their own making...but...often not, as well. Laws are in place and applied with more seriousness. But--it takes both sides.

[Doug Loudenback]

jmarkross, your comment is saddening because it evidences no willingness at all to accept what LGBT's in Oklahoma City are doing unless compared to some other place. I.e., you are stereotyping. Have you observed the kinds of behavior you described occurring here in Oklahoma City, or, by your referencing, are you just sure that it will, based upon your expectations? Do you have a gay/lesbian friend in Oklahoma City who has, or you suspect might, do such a thing? Or do you have any LGBT friends at all, so not to be able draw a fair comparison?

[dankrutka]

Having lived and managed people in San Francisco, I have some familiarity with these folks.

In a nutshell...their acceptance will be commensurate locally--wherever--with how much they try to rub their lifestyle choices into other's faces whom they KNOW will be offended. A Parade can be something to be a silly drag queen exposition...or something more logical. The problem gay people face mostly is public behavior they do to outrage others. You can SAY that is not so...I know better. Been there...seen it all.

Seen the queens roar into Roman Catholic churches on Sunday throwing pictures of naked men into the air, screaming. Is that who ANYONE approves or or can tolerate? Their problems are often of their own making...but...often not, as well. Laws are in place and applied with more seriousness. But--it takes both sides.

Wow. Stopped reading at "these folks." I know many gay people in the OKC and DFW area and NONE have ever done anything like what you are saying. You're nor just stereotyping, but showing your ignorance. Your bigotry is the same as someone that doesn't like black people because they saw a black person commit a crime. Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah Building so let's stereotype all straight, white males as terrorists. Oh wait, stereotypes are only used against minority groups... I forgot. Stereotypes come from incomplete, anecdotal evidence, fear, and ignorance. You need to educate yourself so you don't sound foolish.

[jmarkross]

jmarkross, your comment is saddening because it evidences no willingness at all to accept what LGBT's in Oklahoma City are doing unless compared to some other place. I.e., you are stereotyping. Have you observed the kinds of behavior you described occurring here in Oklahoma City, or, by your referencing, are you just sure that it will, based upon your expectations? Do you have a gay/lesbian friend in Oklahoma City who has, or you suspect might, do such a thing? Or do you have any LGBT friends at all, so not to be able draw a fair comparison?

In a nutshell...their acceptance will be commensurate locally--wherever--with how much they try to rub their lifestyle choices into other's faces whom they KNOW will be offended. A Parade can be something to be a silly drag queen exposition...or something more logical. The problem gay people face mostly is public behavior they do to outrage others. You can SAY that is not so...I know better. Been there...seen it all.