What IF the Oklahoman Went Away?

[HOT ROD]

the D'Oh-k has gotten worse because it has no competition. I remember the Oklahoma City Times and hoped that it would survive in some fashion to give the JokeLaHomo some journalistic competion, not to mention have the name "Oklahoma City" on a newspaper. ...

It is really crazy that some people think the Daily Dissappointment is too liberal. .... I wish they would just report the facts and use professional sources; this happened or is predicted to happen, professor so and so from OCU has a reason why, so does economist so and so from XYZ firm in downtown OKC. Often times, stories in the paper read such as this; so and so that we dont like did this, and they should receive the max sentence. End of Story.

Journalism should always go to the source and try to get alternative opinions so that readers can form their own opinions. Instead of writing BO sucks, write about what he is doing or not doing and the opinions of professional people on both sides of the fence as to the impact. ...

Now that is journalism, wouldn't be liberal or right wing, and would allow Oklahoman's to use thier own brains to understand the story. But we just don't get that from the D'Oh-k now do we. ...

[windowphobe]

Well, the Times wouldn't have been any competition, since OPUBCO owned it for most of its existence. It did generate one good song title, though, recorded by Hamilton Camp in the late 1960s. "I've got to be more than just two lines / In the Oklahoma City Times." Surely somebody bought that besides me. (In fact, I'm pretty sure I got it at Wilcox Records - and doesn't that take you back?)

OKCHistory.com is working on a series about the Oklahoma Journal (1964-1980), an actual non-Gaylord paper.

[jmarkross]

It's 100% true. I don't understand the philosophically loathe
part. It must be something you made up to make yourself feel
better or the like. Who knows?

Be reminded--ANY disagreement with the far-left wing means: YOU hate them, YOU loathe them, YOU despise them, YOU want to see them die before you immediately, YOU wish to watch their vivisection...there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY--you might just "disagree" with them. You cannot foment a crowd of socio-communists with anything less...and like ALL good NAZIS...there is *zero* room for tolerance on their end. Study Ernst Rohm...and the Brown Shirts...and BTW...they had some unusual personal habits too...

[jmarkross]

The Oklahoman and the Oklahoma City Times were made in the very same place--by the very same people--in the very same rooms--printed on the same presses...not too conducive to conflicting and differing opinions...

[jmarkross]

Well, surely you wouldn't condone homosexuality, or recommend such a dangerous lifestyle that seeks to eat away at America's moral fabric and take us away from the original intent of the Founders? Thank GOD we have the anointed Sally Kern to protect us from such a wicked threat, right?

Spartan--no one straight cares who is gay or not...the OBSESSION lies elsewhere. And BTW...I lived in San Francisco from 1979-1982...and managed a staff over over 100 employees--and had to help them with many problems--I can tell you a whole lot about dangerous things being afoot...you are quite young--and rather outspoken for one with virtually **zero** experience. Things were going on there...and tens of thousands died for lack of common sense. I did not read about them in my history books--I saw it with my eyes--and I knew them quite well. I suspect you have not watched as people died right before your very eyes. Be careful when you lecture about things you have--at best--only a nodding acquaintance with...

[jmarkross]

Well, the Times wouldn't have been any competition, since OPUBCO owned it for most of its existence. It did generate one good song title, though, recorded by Hamilton Camp in the late 1960s. "I've got to be more than just two lines / In the Oklahoma City Times." Surely somebody bought that besides me. (In fact, I'm pretty sure I got it at Wilcox Records - and doesn't that take you back?)

OKCHistory.com is working on a series about the Oklahoma Journal (1964-1980), an actual non-Gaylord paper.

The Journal...run out of Midwest City by W.P. "Bill" Atkinson (who ran for Governor many times--and the paper was basically his pamphlet) was not a bad paper at all (one of the first to be printed offset)....and decidedly a dimmycrat mouthpiece. But--not in a bad way really--and the Oklahoman was to the right--but both were reasonable about it. Younger people today have no frame of reference for two semi-equal points of view, since today's media is 90% controlled by left-wingers--simply a fact, not a matter of conjecture. The left-wing Nazis of today have no tolerance whatsoever of any differing opinion--they call it stupid, dumb, dangerous, this, that, blather, dither...the lack of tolerance in on the LEFT! Just like Germany in the 1930's...a SOCIALIST movement...and we can see ominous and obnoxious parallels in Washington today...

[jmarkross]

"I've got to be more than just two lines / In the Oklahoma City Times."

One more thing...since my soapbox is still holding up (just like the olden days in MacArthur Park)...when I worked at OPUBCO...when we put the first edition to bed back then (First, Suburban, City, Late Street editions--in those days--8pm, 10pm, 12pm, 2am)...we would make phony stories (with "war type" headlines!--about 100-pt.) up about various workers in the composing room...being murdered by their wives or caught on dreadful morals charges and arrested...and put them into the killed front page and ran a proof (piece of paper that looks just like the front page for approval) and stick them around the wall in the lunch room...they were a hoot! Often..we would add TWO LINES of obsequies...to give them immortality just like the song...

[Prunepicker]

Be reminded--ANY disagreement with the far-left wing means:
YOU hate them, YOU loathe them, YOU despise them, YOU want
to see them die before you immediately, YOU wish to watch their
vivisection...there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY--you might just
"disagree" with them....

Thanks for the reminder.

[Doug Loudenback]

"I've got to be more than just two lines / In the Oklahoma City Times."

One more thing...since my soapbox is still holding up (just like the olden days in MacArthur Park)...when I worked at OPUBCO...when we put the first edition to bed back then (First, Suburban, City, Late Street editions--in those days--8pm, 10pm, 12pm, 2am)...we would make phony stories (with "war type" headlines!--about 100-pt.) up about various workers in the composing room...being murdered by their wives or caught on dreadful morals charges and arrested...and put them into the killed front page and ran a proof (piece of paper that looks just like the front page for approval) and stick them around the wall in the lunch room...they were a hoot! Often..we would add TWO LINES of obsequies...to give them immortality just like the song...

Now, THOSE would be fun to see. Take any pictures?

[jmarkross]

Now, THOSE would be fun to see. Take any pictures?

No pictures sadly...but--there used to be a wall of famous errors just outside the glass-windowed proofing room in those days...one I remember was a John A. Brown two-page double-truck spread of a "men's shirt sale" that read in huge type at the top...***T SALE--dropping one "R" made a big difference. Now that was funny--and it hit the street on the first edition. The proofers back then were all women and the composing room was 99% males...we often thought the really funny ones were just "let through" out of capricious humor...the chemistry was nice back then...it was not discrimination (lest any leftys get apoplectic)...it was just women liked to read more than handle *damn* heavy lead and have greasy black ink up to your elbows!

[jmarkross]

The Oklahoman, a company with a rather extensive history of innovation and accomplishment in both print and TV news--in more cities than just OKC...has the opportunity to once again find a way to re-invent itself and change with the times to accommodate the technological advances and break out of the newsprint/ink/home delivery of weight dilemma, and do something different. Their very existence and that of all other newspapers swings in the balance. Whoever is thoughtful--will win the race. It is little more than the march of progress--the real kind--and the future belongs to those who have foresight and the ability to "make things happen". It is as simple as that...just another milestone to be tackled.

[Platemaker]

nevemind

[NewPlains]

Be reminded--ANY disagreement with the far-left wing means: YOU hate them, YOU loathe them, YOU despise them, YOU want to see them die before you immediately, YOU wish to watch their vivisection...there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY--you might just "disagree" with them. You cannot foment a crowd of socio-communists with anything less...and like ALL good NAZIS...there is *zero* room for tolerance on their end. Study Ernst Rohm...and the Brown Shirts...and BTW...they had some unusual personal habits too...

Sorry, but this is just silly. Weimar Germany and modern America are very very different. We don't have large scale street fights between communists and nazis, we don't have anyone calling for a military coup to restore order, we don't have 200% inflation, we aren't in danger of a mad dash to oblivion in either direction. The level of apoplectic rhetoric on the right is just as unhinged as the truther nonsense during GWB's tenure or the talk of Bill Clinton killing people left and right like some sort of Gambino mobster in the 90s. The central theme of Nazi ideology wasn't socialist, it was racial nationalism and antisemitism. The social democrats in Germany were outspoken opponents of Nazism, and plenty of them ended up in jail or concentration camps for their trouble.The "socialist" part of national socialism was a ruse to attract the working class and was the first thing to go out the window when Hitler took power. Mussolini is a better fit for this sort of hyperbole, since he at least was an actual dyed in the wool socialist at one point, but no socialist then or now would have anything to do with him, Hitler, Franco or any of the other fascist leaders. If Barack Obama were an actual fascist dictator, he wouldn't have so much trouble getting a bill through congress and we wouldn't be able to have this crazy argument at all.

[ljbab728]

Don't confuse us with facts, NewPlains.

[jmarkross]

Sorry, but this is just silly. Weimar Germany and modern America are very very different. We don't have large scale street fights between communists and nazis, we don't have anyone calling for a military coup to restore order, we don't have 200% inflation, we aren't in danger of a mad dash to oblivion in either direction. The level of apoplectic rhetoric on the right is just as unhinged as the truther nonsense during GWB's tenure or the talk of Bill Clinton killing people left and right like some sort of Gambino mobster in the 90s. The central theme of Nazi ideology wasn't socialist, it was racial nationalism and antisemitism. The social democrats in Germany were outspoken opponents of Nazism, and plenty of them ended up in jail or concentration camps for their trouble.The "socialist" part of national socialism was a ruse to attract the working class and was the first thing to go out the window when Hitler took power. Mussolini is a better fit for this sort of hyperbole, since he at least was an actual dyed in the wool socialist at one point, but no socialist then or now would have anything to do with him, Hitler, Franco or any of the other fascist leaders. If Barack Obama were an actual fascist dictator, he wouldn't have so much trouble getting a bill through congress and we wouldn't be able to have this crazy argument at all.

After listening to that freshly mimeographed talking point screed...I rest my case. I have been around the block a few more times than you....I suspect.

[Laramie]

No pictures sadly...but--there used to be a wall of famous errors just outside the glass-windowed proofing room in those days...one I remember was a John A. Brown two-page double-truck spread of a "men's shirt sale" that read in huge type at the top...***T SALE--dropping one "R" made a big difference. Now that was funny--and it hit the street on the first edition. The proofers back then were all women and the composing room was 99% males...we often thought the really funny ones were just "let through" out of capricious humor...the chemistry was nice back then...it was not discrimination (lest any leftys get apoplectic)...it was just women liked to read more than handle *damn* heavy lead and have greasy black ink up to your elbows!

jmarkross:

I remember getting a batch of 50-package forms (dealing with Special Education) when I worked with Oklahoma City Public Schools that had printed on the top:

Oklahoma City Pubic Schools,

I immediately sent them back to Graphics. I have no idea how many of these forms were printed or sent out; however, I can say that they were destroyed.

[jmarkross]

jmarkross:

I remember getting a batch of 50-package forms (dealing with Special Education) when I worked with Oklahoma City Public Schools that had printed on the top:

Oklahoma City Pubic Schools,

I immediately sent them back to Graphics. I have no idea how many of these forms were printed or sent out; however, I can say that they were destroyed.

That particular mistake is very common--and universally offensive, obviously. At the very best ad agencies...proofreading is done several times...and mistakes are not tolerated. They are very highly paid in the final stages--and mistakes are simply not acceptable. Make this one...you would be gone, the same day. It's the only way to insure success--and worse--prevent eating huge re-printing costs, which is mandatory--contracturally.

[SkyWestOKC]

That particular mistake is very common--and universally offensive, obviously. At the very best ad agencies...proofreading is done several times...and mistakes are not tolerated. They are very highly paid in the final stages--and mistakes are simply not acceptable. Make this one...you would be gone, the same day. It's the only way to insure success--and worse--prevent eating huge re-printing costs, which is mandatory--contracturally.

Way I do it when I have someone proofreading something is this way: if you find a mistake I buy you lunch. I don't want to buy them lunch, making me proofread myself. And also makes them more eager to seek mistakes.

[NewPlains]

After listening to that freshly mimeographed talking point screed...I rest my case. I have been around the block a few more times than you....I suspect.

So your counter argument is that because I disagree with you, I must be receiving some sort of secret communique from the Comintern that is telling me what to think. I don't think I need to point out why that isn't logical. I wasn't aware that there were any official talking points about the ways America isn't Nazi Germany...I kind of figured that was self evident. I don't know how many times you've been around the block, but you might want to come inside. I think the heat may be affecting your judgment. Since you seem to think that anyone to the left of Joe McCarthy is a commie agent, Here's what I believe in: I believe in a free market system with reasonable regulation, taxes that are sufficient to provide for the common defense and a social safety net but not so high that people can't pay them, and the freedom to do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone. Is that really so revolutionary and unreasonable?

[hoya]

There is nothing special about a newspaper beyond sentimental attachment. The process of putting ink on paper doesn't do anything magical which binds a community together or exposes corruption. We don't need a big stack of paper filled with coupons and worthless stories about some guy's deer antler collection. Consider the amount of news in our paper that comes from the Associated Press, that's just a repeat of info available elsewhere.

Local sports? Available on the radio or online. Weather? Our TV stations make a living off of it. Editorials? Fluff pieces? Advertisements? Not needed, or too easily found elsewhere.

The only thing local papers give us is their ability to investigate. And the truth is, outside of a handful of local reporters, newspapers aren't blowing our socks off with hard-hitting research. The truth is, investigative journalism is hard. It's a lot of work, and most of the time it doesn't turn up anything. Those who jump the gun too early end up just being rumor mongers. When was the last big story that the Daily Oklahoman broke? Can anyone think of one?

I don't hate the paper. I've got nothing against it. But the times, they are a'changing.

[ljbab728]

There is nothing special about a newspaper beyond sentimental attachment. The process of putting ink on paper doesn't do anything magical which binds a community together or exposes corruption. We don't need a big stack of paper filled with coupons and worthless stories about some guy's deer antler collection. Consider the amount of news in our paper that comes from the Associated Press, that's just a repeat of info available elsewhere.

Local sports? Available on the radio or online. Weather? Our TV stations make a living off of it. Editorials? Fluff pieces? Advertisements? Not needed, or too easily found elsewhere.

The only thing local papers give us is their ability to investigate. And the truth is, outside of a handful of local reporters, newspapers aren't blowing our socks off with hard-hitting research. The truth is, investigative journalism is hard. It's a lot of work, and most of the time it doesn't turn up anything. Those who jump the gun too early end up just being rumor mongers. When was the last big story that the Daily Oklahoman broke? Can anyone think of one?

I don't hate the paper. I've got nothing against it. But the times, they are a'changing.

hoya, what you're saying about other places to get information is true, however, when I get up in the morning and I'm relaxing before getting ready to go to work, I don't want to have to go to a half dozen different places to get all of the information you're talking about. It's all in one neat, easy to navigate package for me while I'm sitting in my recliner with my feet up. And don't tell me about the local morning television news casts. Other than a weather update, they are just a rehash of the news from the night before.

[Steve]

Local sports? TV, radio and internet rip it off from newspapers. Weather? Well, yeah. Editorials? Fluff pieces? Often ripped off from newspapers. Local news? ALMOST ALWAYS RIPPED OFF from newspapers.

[metro]

Steve, careful ripping your competitors as you never know who you may work for in the future, you may be working for an online news site and not OPUBCO.

[Steve]

At this point in time, what I'm saying is the truth. I'm defending the work done by newspapers (with increasingly smaller, overworked staffs) around the country.

[hoya]

hoya, what you're saying about other places to get information is true, however, when I get up in the morning and I'm relaxing before getting ready to go to work, I don't want to have to go to a half dozen different places to get all of the information you're talking about. It's all in one neat, easy to navigate package for me while I'm sitting in my recliner with my feet up. And don't tell me about the local morning television news casts. Other than a weather update, they are just a rehash of the news from the night before.

That's what I mean by sentimental attachment. You sit back and prop your feet up while reading the paper, I sit back with my laptop and hit a few websites that I have bookmarked. It's all right there on my computer, easy to access, and I don't have 50 coupons fall out all over the ground. Just a personal preference issue.

Local sports? TV, radio and internet rip it off from newspapers. Weather? Well, yeah. Editorials? Fluff pieces? Often ripped off from newspapers. Local news? ALMOST ALWAYS RIPPED OFF from newspapers.

If you're talking about high school sports, sure. But OU? The Thunder? I get OU coverage from Rivals, as well as half a dozen other blogs and message boards. They do a better job of coverage than anything I can get from a newspaper. Editorials are so common on the internet as to be worthless. Look at Okctalk. Most of this website is one big editorial column. Does it really matter if it's from Nick Roberts instead of the editor of the Oklahoman? And as far as I'm concerned, I can live without the fluff pieces. I don't need to read through the literarary equivalent of "Is This a Great State or What?"

Investigative reporting will survive. Mostly, because there's a demand for it, and the market will move to meet that demand. But it may be without the massive printing presses and the newsprint of yesteryear. I think you do a great job, Steve, but I can't remember the last time I read one of your articles in a physical paper as opposed to just hopping over to your blog.