MBG Restaurant & Cafe - OPINIONS WANTED

[metro]

I don't know, it's hard to beat the mac and cheese at Red Prime and Iron Starr, but I do agree about 5 guys burgers.

[Rover]

Brooklyn Diner in Manhattan has an incredible Mac and Cheese that is a meal in itself. Good stuff. Other items are diner foods done very well...not your side of the road pre-Dennys. Breakfasts with things like "Birds in a nest" (Eggs fried in holes of Texas toast), great bagels, hamsteaks, etc.

It would be a great fit in downtown OKC. We have local restauranteurs that can pull it off great. The stainless steel diner building would look great in the new park. Sunday morning patio seating would be fabulous amongst the trees and flowers of the new park.

Just sayin...

[alan]

No Starbucks please. Go with some place like Vintage or, as much as I hate to say it, Coffee Slingers (I hate CS but they have a good product).

We have several good shops in OKC that can, and do, serve better product than anything you'll find at a starbucks.

thanks Euphoria!

[Rover]

Yes, but what CS and others fail to take into account is that Starbucks is not just about the coffee. It is a destination and represents a style to a lot of people. It is comfortable and chic and a place to be seen. Many times local businesses build out on the cheap or funky and fail to understand that there is often more of a "product" to create than the actual product they create. You can't just open any place, throw something together and make it a desired spot to shop. CS may have fine coffee offerings but is about as comfortable as sitting in a factory. It is not appealing or comfortable and has an echo to it. I don't particularly want my conversations heard across the room at the same level as across the table. So, when our local owners start truly understanding and caring to all facets of their business they will be more successful than the chains. Otherwise, the well designed chains with good (not great) products will still rule. It takes more than an average or above average product to have a great business.

[alan]

So, when our local owners start truly understanding and caring to all facets of their business they will be more successful than the chains. Otherwise, the well designed chains with good (not great) products will still rule.

some of us do understand that.

[Rover]

Yes, absolutely some do understand and they do a good business. Vintage is a much better competitor to Starbucks than is CS, imho. There are some however who think that if you are local it is a free pass to offer less value to the customer (can be in quality, ambiance, novelty, etc.). All things being equal, I think all of us would rather frequent local businesses.

[Rover]

To the subject of the thread, for visitors sometimes the familiar name of the national named restaurant is a draw. People will seek out a Cheesecake Factory but someone from Omaha has no clue to even look for the Metro or what it is. So the target of the restaurant will help dictate concept and who it is.

[betts]

I'm not going to disagree with you, because sometimes you are right. On the other hand, there are people who like, when they're on vacation, to go places they've never been before.

What will be really important for all of our restaurants, is lots of information on local eateries available at hotels. I've frequently picked out a restaurant from a menu in a hotel, and then gone to find it.

[Rover]

I agree. So for the purpose of this thread, in my humble opinion, if there are three concepts, there should be one that is of national note that might draw out of towners (like a 5 Guys Burgers, etc.) Then one should be a local "find". It should be the one used most often by the downtowners - maybe the dining room and bakery. That way, if the tourists come because they recognize the national name, they might be lured into coming back to their local discovery and its wonderful local flavors. The third food concept might actually be kiosks or carts like fresh crepes, gellatos, Indian taco's, etc.) - grab and go on the cheap.

Just a thought.

[betts]

How much fun to have a creperie in a cart. What a great idea!

[Rover]

Crepe stands are one of my very favorite things about Paris in the fall. Fresh apricot crepes and the smell wafting through the park. A hot cup of coffee and a fresh crepe.

Excuse me while I go book a flight to Paris.

[tuck]

Most chains aren't going to be interested in this project. The foot traffic is unproven; they don't build restaurants in areas without a successful history in most cases. They are in it for the dollar...that's it!

I have read some great ideas here, but everyone needs to understand that the operator needs to make a profit. A one-unit coffee shop is not a gold mine in OKC. A Bakery will not work in a park. I love Balthazar's, but wouldn't recommend for this project.

Keep the ideas coming!!

[Rover]

A bakery across the street from Devon can work. But, Balthazars is not JUST a bakery. It is a dining room and a SMALL bakery. And it is the retail section which doesn't have to be the actual baking area.

With the tower across the street there is a built-in foot traffic. Built-in exposure. We are talking about restaurants confined in a 1 sq block park...not in the middle of a largecentral park. Big difference.

The problem with many of the small local restaurantuers is that there is a horrible lack of vision and creativity. This is why so many fail. I am sure most thought Big Truck Tacos was not a good idea. Thank goodness we have a few that dare to try.

So offer watered down "safe" projects and then be amazed when people don't get excited.

[metro]

Most chains aren't going to be interested in this project. The foot traffic is unproven; they don't build restaurants in areas without a successful history in most cases. They are in it for the dollar...that's it!

I have read some great ideas here, but everyone needs to understand that the operator needs to make a profit. A one-unit coffee shop is not a gold mine in OKC. A Bakery will not work in a park. I love Balthazar's, but wouldn't recommend for this project.

Keep the ideas coming!!

Tuck, please share some of your thoughts on what you recommend, we'd love to hear!

[tuck]

Tuck, please share some of your thoughts on what you recommend, we'd love to hear!

I'm going to hang on to my ideas right now; plan to share with the planning group very soon. You understand, right?

[metro]

totally, just trying to see if there was anything you could share at this point. we'll stay tuned.

[Rover]

It will be interesting if the local interests actually propose something leading or just try to scare the city from trying to agressively pursue quality concepts even though they might be "chains".

This is a unique park in a unique position across the street from a huge corporate complex. Not exactly unpredictable for foot traffic. Not exactly hidden from view.

Hope our city keeps thinking bigger and better.

[lasomeday]

I totally agree with Tuck. Chains usually don't try the unusual places. They look at traffic counts and population density. The park has neither currently, so it will be up to the local restauranteers to come up with some awesome concepts.

I am excited to see what happens. I have a good feeling that we will be impressed with what the city plans.

[Euphoria]

Yes, but what CS and others fail to take into account is that Starbucks is not just about the coffee. It is a destination and represents a style to a lot of people. It is comfortable and chic and a place to be seen. Many times local businesses build out on the cheap or funky and fail to understand that there is often more of a "product" to create than the actual product they create. You can't just open any place, throw something together and make it a desired spot to shop. CS may have fine coffee offerings but is about as comfortable as sitting in a factory. It is not appealing or comfortable and has an echo to it. I don't particularly want my conversations heard across the room at the same level as across the table. So, when our local owners start truly understanding and caring to all facets of their business they will be more successful than the chains. Otherwise, the well designed chains with good (not great) products will still rule. It takes more than an average or above average product to have a great business.

I totally agree. And, as you said in your later post Vintage is a better competitor because the atmosphere is more comfortable and is closer to what people think of when they want coffee. Simple, cozy, and moderately classy would be the way to go in my opinion. In a perfect world we'd have something that's a mix of Vintage and Prairie Thunder. Good focus on quality and customer service and the atmospheres of both businesses are very comfortable.

Yes, it's a pipe dream.

[betts]

It will be interesting if the local interests actually propose something leading or just try to scare the city from trying to agressively pursue quality concepts even though they might be "chains".

This is a unique park in a unique position across the street from a huge corporate complex. Not exactly unpredictable for foot traffic. Not exactly hidden from view.

Hope our city keeps thinking bigger and better.

But really, I'm trying (hard) to think of a chain that can compete with many of our local restaurants. I can't really think of any steakhouse chains that are better than Red Prime or the Ranch, for example. Now, if we could get a Tao, I'd be interested, but for the most part, I love our local options.

[Rover]

There are a few local restaurant entrepreneurs who try diffferent and more daring concepts and they are rewarded. Places like CoolGreens comes to mind as an exception. However, most locals are very SAFE and don't do advanced concepts or other than the same old same old. All you have to do is go to other cities and see what I mean. Many local restaurants want to serve average food and charge premium prices and then complain that locals don't support them. Sorry, but it is true. And another steakhouse is not a new, bold or advanced concept.

I hope someone proves me wrong, but if we end up with another bland restaurant with no imagination then don't be surprised when it struggles or fails.

[betts]

I'm not sure how daring concepts need to be. Good food is more important than unusual food, to my way of thinking. I've been to some restaurants where the food, although pretty, has a combination of flavors and textures that overwhelms the palate, all in the name of daring. We can have unusual concepts that fail, and that's worse than more pedestrian ones that succeed, to my way of thinking.

I think we've got a lot of restaurants that serve food that is far better than average. It just may not be unusual AND above average. Obviously that can be improved upon, but I see lots of changes in a good way in the restaurants we have here.

I spend a lot of time visiting family in Chicago and New York, and we always try new restaurants. But, most of the ones we go back to have good food, and frequently the concept is not that unusual. My daughters have a list of restaurants they always want to eat at when they're here, and they can eat anywhere they want in Chicago.

[Rover]

Food doesn't have to be exotic or weird. However concepts can be different and interesting even with traditional elements. There are plenty of places I enjoy here, but few are very forward or outstanding. Even Wichita has greater variety of concepts and more innovation. OKC restaurants are by and large good but outstanding is rare here. Sorry. Just my humble opinion.

[Larry OKC]

But really, I'm trying (hard) to think of a chain that can compete with many of our local restaurants. I can't really think of any steakhouse chains that are better than Red Prime or the Ranch, for example. Now, if we could get a Tao, I'd be interested, but for the most part, I love our local options.

Thought we had a Tao (up on Memorial)?

[betts]

The real Tao. The one they've got in Manhattan. I think there's one in Las Vegas too, but I don't go to Las Vegas.